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Hack....Bill is a good coach....My point is..We can talk about ownership...talent...and years with a team......Browns fans are burned out....coming close...get your hopes up.....and bang !.....we sucked again......What Bill did in Pittsburgh is`nt good enough for Browns fans......We could as a team see playoffs........if the team did`nt get to the trophy......the gripe would be....we need a guy who can take this team all the way....the playoffs are`nt good enough....
You should know that as a Steeler fan from the mid '90`s.....Steeler fans wanted Bill gone.....even with all his accomplishments....The Superbowl mattered more than all that other glorious crap............
We did not have Cowher since th return....So as it goes...us Browns fans loyal or not...kept putting up with bull rebuilding excuses......God could have been the coach...and we still would have the same record.....
Getting the right coaches with the right players...and we might look good.....time will tell.........
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Oh I agree....I was one of the fans that was always on Bill Cowhers side.....I never got the doom and gloom....
What many Steeler fans saw was a team that UNDERACHIEVED. That should have won more Super Bowls.....but in my eye was a team that OVERACHIEVED. A team that took a group of average to above average players...and went farther than they should have on occasion.
95 the Steelers should have probably won the SB....Bam Morris was running up and down the field on Dallas....but Ron Earhart...kept calling pass after pass...and O'donnell made two horrible INT's that cost them the game...and made Larry Brown a multi millionaire...before getting washed out of the league.
I think the Steelers should have beat the Chargers the year they played the 49ers....but just came up short.
I think the Steelers should have beat NE the year they won their first one...people blame Kordell for that loss...but special teams gave up 14 points...and the Steelers lost by 7.
So 6 AFC title games...2 times they went....2 times you could make the argument that they should have gone....but that still leaves 2 times...they probably were not good enough to get to that Championship game....and that Cowher did an amazing job of coaching to get them there at all.
Ultimately Cowher took Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, Mike Tomzack to the Playoffs 10 times in 15 years....and it wasnt until a 11th overall QB was taken that the RING finally appeared.
But more to the point....it was the constant turnover of offensive co-ordinators that was messing things up in Pitt....which goes back to the original topic....you need stability at the top first.
The one thing I always praised Cowher for...which many people bashed him for....You cant get to the Super Bowl without getting in the Playoffs....and Cowher almost always gave them a chance.
HACK
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of course u think all that stuff.. lol
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I haven't read all the posts ..I see the issue being him wanting to be the GM/HC... Total control...  We did that , been there before..while I like Chin as a coach he 's not getting full control here.. I want to see Phil go through the plan and finish it..
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Quote:
What Bill did in Pittsburgh is`nt good enough for Browns fans......We could as a team see playoffs........if the team did`nt get to the trophy......the gripe would be....we need a guy who can take this team all the way....the playoffs are`nt good enough....
Don't speak for all of us. To tell you the truth, my opinion couldn't be more different than yours.
I would much prefer a team that is competitive every year over the 4 and 12, 5 and 11, and 6 and 10 teams we have had here. In fact, your thinking makes absolutely no sense to me.
Now, I am not asking for you to agree w/me. You can be as happy as you like w/the 4 and 12 record, while other teams have turned it around quicker, but don't speak for me.
Hack nailed it when he said that Cowher got his teams to overachieve. I don't think they are loaded w/more talent than other teams. I think they were prepared, played hard, innovative, fundamentally sound, and passionate. They were also a team that represented a rough, tough, working class city like Pittsburgh well. The two cities are very similar in their makeup, the big difference is that their team personifies their city, while our team has played like a bunch of sissy boys.
I'd take Cowher in a heartbeat and don't be shocked if it happens. There's something in the wind, if you know what I mean........
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Shep....I'm sure I don't know a lot about talking out of my ass....but I didn't realize that you did so much of it either.
Care to wager $100.00 that RAC is not our head coach after 10 games this season? If betting is verboten on this forum let your ass talk to me.
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Turk,
I'll offer you the same bet of $100.00...I believe that RAC is gone before the 11th game of our season this year. Fish or cut bait.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Quote:
Turk,
I'll offer you the same bet of $100.00...I believe that RAC is gone before the 11th game of our season this year. Fish or cut bait.
you said he was gone after turkey day.. like u know exactly what is going to happen in the season...
now your saying anytime from now until the 11th game.. thats more of a broad range..
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Quote:
Shep....I'm sure I don't know a lot about talking out of my ass....
Re-read what you wrote in this thread and it's plain to see.....
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Care to wager $100.00 that RAC is not our head coach after 10 games this season?
Is it 10 games for sure or is it after "turkey day?"
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If betting is verboten on this forum let your ass talk to me.
I don't understand this sentence at all......."If betting is forbidden in this forum let my ass talk to you" ????
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Just being my usual helpful self..
The 10th game is the squealer game on November 11th.
Thanksgiving is November 22nd...
Thats a Thursday for the calendar impaired..
Now tell me how I can have a hand in this cabbage.. how much do I need to bet and where / when can I pick it up?
SaintDawg™
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I've seen it thrown around, but how do you build a succesful team? I'd say through the draft. How long does that take? Let's say 5 years. Well that is what was said when Phil and RAC came on board, that is what it is looking like, and if we change AGAIN mid-stream we are totally screwed.
I only quoted this part of your post. And I agree strongly with your sentiments of your entire post for the most part,especially from an emotional standpoint.
But from a realistic perspective,if you're "building" anything that is a five year process,by year three in that process,some type of production showing you're working your way to that goal should be able to be seen.
ie....If I'm building a skyscaper that is a five year process,by year three,you can see the "firm results accomplished to that point" from how far along that building is. There is concrete evidence that progress is being made and that I'm on schedule.
If that building is 20 stories high,and I'm only on the third story after three years,do you think I'll get the other 17 stories built in the remaining two years?
There's a "natural progression" that leads to success. I think from a business standpoint,most all CEO's look for this and use this concept. I doubt if the NFL is any different.
So if we go 6-10,we're right back to the first floor of the skyscraper again after three years? That's going to be a tough pill to swallow for the guy writing the checks IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Well, to stick with your construction analogy... it all depends on what your expectations are and how reasonable they are. If there are 20 floors and 17 to go with less than half the time remaining... can you expect it to happen? That all depends on whether or not you take into account how long it took to pour the foundation and wait for it to cure. Your building can also show PLENTY of progress if you just stop narrowing your focus to how many floors are completed. Afterall, each and every floor needs the skeleton structure in place, it needs the core of the building for the elevators poured, it needs to have the crane's raised. Finishing of floors takes very little time once the core structural stuff is in place 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Just being my usual helpful self..
The 10th game is the squealer game on November 11th.
Thanksgiving is November 22nd...
Thats a Thursday for the calendar impaired..
Muchos gracias, but we'll have to wait for Mr Ralphie to come back and affirm the date....
I'll make it simple:
I will wager the 100 bucks that Romeo is still the Browns coach when the calendar turns to December.
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Now tell me how I can have a hand in this cabbage.. how much do I need to bet and where / when can I pick it up?
Here ya go Ralphie...how many times are you willing to place this sure-fire bet?
Anybody else?
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And I agree that your analogy also holds true PPE.
But you see,even if you factor all of that into your equasion,by the end of year three,your results should be somewhat noticably improved from year one.
If you go 6-10 in year one,by year three of the building process,"some marked improvement" should be expect by the end of year three.
Once again,I think it would be reasonable for Lerner to expect to see some positive results and that "natural progression" I mentioned.
Everyone speaks of "how poor" the talent level was when they got here. How the players "didn't fit their system". What a "short time span" they had to prepatre for their first draft. All of which I would say holds some merrit.
But IF,after the end of year three,they can't produce more wins than they did under those horid conditions of year one,isn't that an indication that something has gone terribly wrong?
Now remember,while the Squeelers have a lot of talent,they too are undergoing a coaching change this year. Shouldn't we do better against them?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Well Pit (not money getting thrown around here...) I'd agree to a point.
Last year was marred by injury (and yes just like everyone I'm sick of hearing it but it's true) so I can't really judge everything, but I'd say our team last year had more talent than the preceding year.
I think this year we are more talented that last year. ie. Thomas, Peek, S Smith, R smith, Lewis. and should be getting some players to step up who hopefully have been improving.
I'd say if we have a "normal" NFL year then and only then would it be fair to judge RAC. (by normal I mean not being in the bottom third on players on the IR Or PUP) So let's wait till next year to make any judgements. I'll wait until the games are played to say how the team and RAC are doing. I'm just like anyone else. I'm sick and tired of losing. I just don't think switchng Coaches is the way to go. Just look at Cowher. A pretty good coach, but one people will debate on the Great coach, good coach or crappy coach. We wouldn't even be talking about him if he had lasted 4 years. Don't we all kinda wish we would have waited out belichoke? He obviously learned from his mistakes and became a great coach. I think RAC has it in him. But hey we'll see!!!! I can't wait for football.
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I follow what you're saying, but the point I'm making is it all depends on where you are expecting/wanting to look to see that improvement. This year, like last year, I feel will be a year where there will be plenty of improvement that probably won't show up in the W-L Column. You keep referring to a part of the analogy that requires more Wins or More Floors in the Building as the measuring stick for progress. I'm referring to the underlying progress that is being made in talent, learning, leadership, cohesion, schemes, etc... that cannot be measured soley by Wins or Number of Floors. It is all the infrastructure and foundation being laid so that when the rest of it comes together, it does so in a rapid and solid fashion. It's a five year plan and we're a few months away from kicking off only the start of Year 3... and you're already talking as if you are making plans to tear it all down and start a new building because this one isn't going up fast enough for your liking. Myself, I'm saving that expectation for Year 4 (unless a catastrophe occurs and a few Floors of the building collapse)
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Well,firstly,had we "waited out belichoke?" He'd be coaching the Ravens right now. He worked for Modell.  But yes,I'm not "calling for his head on a platter".  But I do think season three of a five year plan should definatly be showing signs of "getting us headed in the right direction". I think it's critical that you produce more in year three,than in year one. But I FULLY EXPECT that he'll be given the entire season to do so. With a new system and such a young team,I don't really think things will be running on all cylinders to start the season. IMO,if it doesn't start producing "marked results" in the second half of the season,he very well may not be here in 08. JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
I'm referring to the underlying progress that is being made in talent, learning, leadership, cohesion, schemes, etc... that cannot be measured soley by Wins or Number of Floors.
While I feel the two are directly connected.
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It's a five year plan and we're a few months away from kicking off only the start of Year 3... and you're already talking as if you are making plans to tear it all down and start a new building because this one isn't going up fast enough for your liking.
Actually,I'm looking at contingency plans that are possible if after the "completion of year three" we are no further along in production,than we were after year one. That's not a case of it "not being fast enough for me". That's a case of "spinning your wheels and going nowhere". Which basicly means that the builder has fallen way behind schedule,you had to void the contract because of that,and bring in someone capable of finishing the project.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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ummmmm, oops on belichoke.......but you got the idea. 
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Yes,I got the jest of what you were saying.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Hack...I always respected the Steelers for the hard nose ball they played...year after year......With or with out talent......Not sure about this....but were they not the most under payed players in the nfl at that time...or still are...? Quote:
But more to the point....it was the constant turnover of offensive co-ordinators that was messing things up in Pitt....which goes back to the original topic....you need stability at the top first.
I guess this is what I`m trying to say as far as Bill being a great / good coach.....Could he have achieved the same quality from the Browns org... as it was in the building...and messed up years as we have known it ?
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The one thing I always praised Cowher for...which many people bashed him for....You cant get to the Super Bowl without getting in the Playoffs....and Cowher almost always gave them a chance.
Agree......But unforntuatley....for him...the fans wanted more...no patience...no satisfaction.....sort of a shame.....The SB....is what all fans want.........
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Don't speak for all of us. To tell you the truth, my opinion couldn't be more different than yours.
Speaking for 90%....is that cool.....and your opinion is always different than mine.....but I respect it............
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I would much prefer a team that is competitive every year over the 4 and 12, 5 and 11, and 6 and 10 teams we have had here. In fact, your thinking makes absolutely no sense to me.
my thinking....what the hell Vers....I`m not saying I want these losey records....and nor do the fans....my thinking is ....how many playoffs are good enough ?......It`s not...until the Championship is won ....no-one is happy......Can you honestly tell me....Yopu would be happy with 9 year of play offs and not getting to the superbowl..........Go ask the Colts Fans...bro...........
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Hack nailed it when he said that Cowher got his teams to overachieve.
Yes he nailed it.....But remeber...all that over achieving did`nt make Steeler fans happy......Untill the superbowl ring was on the fingers.........
Vers....I want to see a championship...I can deal with a few years of good records and playoffs.....But man....I don`t want to hit the call button for the nurse to come in and and revive me when it happens....
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Well, we disagree on that. Peen thinks the same as you do and I'm not saying you guys are wrong. I would prefer a perennial playoff team to the crap we have put on the field. I mean........since when does having crappy records assure you of ever winning a Super Bowl?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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i don't think romeo gets fired in mid-season... or at any point during the season...
if they fire him, it will be after the season... romeo has too much respect around the browns and the rest of the nfl... they wouldn't do that to a class guy like romeo
this isn't butch davis, after all.
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Quote:
Well, we disagree on that. Peen thinks the same as you do and I'm not saying you guys are wrong. I would prefer a perennial playoff team to the crap we have put on the field. I mean........since when does having crappy records assure you of ever winning a Super Bowl?
Vers.....I sit with peen at games....and that guy loves this team alot....as we all do....
Crappy records or playoff records don`t assure a superbowl win......And I don`t think you grasp the fact that no-one is happy untill then............
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Quote:
i don't think romeo gets fired in mid-season... or at any point during the season...
if they fire him, it will be after the season...
I know you gave your reasons,but I have something to add.
How would dumping Romeo mid-season look to potential coaching prospects? I mean,just for the sake of arguement,let's say that this season is "going down the tubes".
If you were a HC candidate,would you feel comfortable going somewhere that booted a coach in the middle of the year that way? How might that effect your decision and your opinion of The Browns FO if you were in their shoes?
No,I think logic dictates he will get the full season. From a PR standpoint,as well as increasing the odds of acquiring a top notch HC candidate,I think it's the only logical conclusion.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Agree Pit.......Coaches want to keep their jobs....and if a org....has a reputation for cutting you loose.....then coaches will fear the noose......
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I look at it this way...
I'd be VERY happy with a consistent playoff team here in cleveland... but I won't be satisfied until we win a Superbowl...
but right now I just want to get a friggin winning record. If RAC can take this team this year and get us to 7-9 or 8-8 I'd be very happy with this year and look towards his fourth year to take us to the playoffs.... dunno if it'll happen, but who knows.
<><
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Jay...if we ever win this you better be in ohio...
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when we go to the SB I'm going to be in whatever city the game is held in... even if I can't get tix I just want to be in the city.
<><
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I love the outside stadium...but sure wish we had a dome sometimes....
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Quote:
Just being my usual helpful self..
The 10th game is the squealer game on November 11th.
Thanksgiving is November 22nd...
Thats a Thursday for the calendar impaired..
Now tell me how I can have a hand in this cabbage.. how much do I need to bet and where / when can I pick it up?
I said that he would be gone by Turkey Day...11/22/2007 That is the date I believe he will be gone by. That is as clear as I can be regarding this.
Yes Saint, you can still get in on this bet if you choose to do so. I'll cover 10 bets and if you or the others are still interested PM me with your desire to bet. I will forward my address here in Florida to you and you can send me your addy or PO Box in the slight chance that I'd have to pay up.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Crappy records or playoff records don`t assure a superbowl win......And I don`t think you grasp the fact that no-one is happy untill then............
If I die before we win a SuperBowl my final words, with my dying breath will be, "Damn, I'm going to miss it"
But I sure be a happy camper, at least for the forseeable future if this team were a perennial playoff team. I'm tired of being embarrassed.
I still wear my gear Monday after the game no matter how bad we lost or how inept the team looked in losing. I'm proud to be a Browns fan.
But it would be so much sweeter to be a winning team, like the Kosar era, than it is to be where we've been since our return.
Sure hearts still get broken if there's no SuperBowl. But the Steelers have been recognized as the "model" everyone is striving to be over the past decade or more. Yet, in Cowher's 15 years he made it to two SuperBowls and won just one of them.
That's how hard it is.
That's why there is so much adoration for NE and Belichick. They have done the impossible with their three SuperBowl wins in such a short span.
In this day of free agency and the "3-years and you're out" philosophy of the owners getting there takes a lot more than good coaching. It takes a lot of luck in all areas like injuries, some calls going for instead of against and a staff who is in the right place at the right time with the right talent.
That's a hard thing to put together and although to a degree you make your own luck, it's almost a miracle to make it to the big game. Somebody has to go so two teams make it every season. But all the odds are against it.
For now, I'd like to see us win two in a row. Then a winning record. Then the playoffs. Then advance in the playoffs. Then do it again and again and again. Sooner or later we may have that ring. But it ain't as easy as simply getting the right coach. A lot has to fall together.
That's my opinion anyway, for what it's worth.
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I'm with you, man.
I can't even imagine the reaction in Cleveland if the Browns made it to a Super Bowl...it gives me chills.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I hate the steelers, but have always admired and respected the chin. if RAC doesnt do well this season there is probibly going to be a change anyway.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Vers, if "something is in the wind" concerning Cowher, when do you think it would happen? After the coming season, perhaps? Before, or during the season?
I really would like to see Coach Crennel stay on, but...if Cowher came in...man! He is one of the best.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974 |
Quote:
Vers, if "something is in the wind" concerning Cowher, when do you think it would happen? After the coming season, perhaps? Before, or during the season?
I really would like to see Coach Crennel stay on, but...if Cowher came in...man! He is one of the best.
something is afoot, there is no doubt. I'm not going to claim that I know anything, but we are seeing some smoke. The ties to the Browns, the chance to give his old team the middle finger for a heck of a lot more money. the chance to inflate his ego by taking a team nobody could fix and making it into a winner has got to appeal to him.
I still don't know how I feel about this. I like RAC, I really do. I'm happy he's our coach., but the chin is a a great coach, the kind of guy who could finally take us somewhere.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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This is just something I was thinking about the other day and this seemed like a good place to put it. Let's say the browns have another bad year and RAC gets canned. Certainly not unreasonable.
With Brady Quinn in the franchise and the flow of cash that WILL follow because of that, does anybody feel that would make Lerner open up his pockets and give a coach like cowher say, $8-10m/year to come here?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I really don't know. It's just something my guy heard from another coach in the league. That's all I know.
If I were to speculate on it..........I would say it would be next season. That would make the most sense and be in the best interests of all involved. I don't even know if it's true or is going to happen, but there is talk about it, and it goes beyond the usual BS that the media puts out there.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18 |
Yeah, I would have mixed feelings about it. I do like RAC, and want to see him succeed...more than that, I want to see the Browns succeed.
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