An edge rusher is the way to go. San Diego was playing w/out most of their starting line throughout the day. Man, I thought the Browns had a lot of injuries. The Chargers are truly a MASH unit.
We need impact players and I think that Garrett has WAY more potential to be an impact player than anyone in this draft. I don't even think that it's close.
I go back and forth between Garrett and Allen. The medical on Garrett's ankle could be interesting. You can tell the difference in foot speed/quickness between 2015 and 2016. Playing through it is admirable, but as far as the Browns I kind of wish he'd gotten healthy. I do think the injury may have helped him technique-wise some, so as long as the ankle doesn't become a lingering/recurring issue it could be a positive in the long run.
I really like Allen in an Aaron Donald type role. Think he could have a big impact there, too. His quickness when he's lined up inside and his responsibility is just to attack is impressive.
I don't really see a way we get both, but that would be amazing. Especially if we could address the secondary in FA.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The only leg up I'll give Clowney over garrett is he seems to be slightly more violent. Garrett is a pretty smooth operator. Garrett is more athletic(how that's even possible is beyond me), better against the run, no character flaws and has a desire to be the best like the greats. He said in an interview once about how he respect bosas game but he knows he can be better and how excited he is to compete with him for many years to come.
I like Garrett based mostly on what I've read...I've seen a little more of Allen and I like what I've seen and read on him.
Yesterday, It looked like we harassed Rivers a lot but never quite got to him. What I thought was missing was more effective pressure up the middle and a collapsing pocket. (Operative word being 'effective'.) We sent an extra guy up the middle, but that pressure was oftentimes ineffective. We were getting edge pressure and needed to collapse the pocket...but couldn't do it. (I realize that SD's offense was missing a lot of players.)
Anyway...I came away from the WIN yesterday thinking we need a guy in the middle-ish who can create pocket discomfort perhaps more so than a guy coming from the edge.
JMO
Problem is we have guys who can rush inside. Danny, Bryant, Nassib. Are they dominant? No but they also aren't being single blocked all the time either and two of them are very young. We could definitely use a de but it's not every day a pass rushing prospect like this comes along.
We have no one to bring from the Weak side. Ogbah is best suited on the strong and collins is best utilized as a Rover type Ilb. Bringing in a true weak edge rusher for once that has to be accounted for makes every front 7 player better. All the attention goes to him. He has the fastest and most dangerous line to the qb. Your interior lanes open. Your te has to chip slowing him up. Your rb has to stay in for pass pro instead of a route.
Weak rush impacts a team more than any other position besides qb and garrett is the best prospect since....Maybe Javon Kearse and I'm not sure he stands up either. He checks every blue chip box. People will nitpick of course but he's every bit the prospect for his position that luck was for qb. Dang near perfect. You just can't not take him.
Plus 34 de is very strong this year. If we somehow landed McDowell too you'd probably find me crying in a corner at the draft party.
Allen constantly beats double teams, is one of the best pass rushers in years, and always stops the run. He's up there with Bosa, Watt, Cox and Hayward as an end prospect. He's going to be a top 3 positional player within his first few years. I really think he's going to blow people away at the combine.
I agree with you there and I also think we really cannot go wrong with either guy. I've personally seen more of Allen than Garrett so I'm biased there - not that I can really critique either guy - and I am gun shy on college DE's becoming OLBs on OUR team. (Silly...I know.)
If we get Garrett, I think we need better push up the middle and that push might come from Bryant (if he returns) and might come from Nassib (if he gets stronger).
If we get Allen, we need Ogbah to continue to develop, Orchard to get back to his Sr year form, and maybe Holmes to become special.
I like what I'm reading on here about the "2nd best" interior DLs and Edge guys...so maybe we get the #1 guy at one spot and the #2 guy at the other.
It also seems that there is a consensus on here that we need to draft actual football players early and often this draft - rather than trade for more chips.
Problem is we have guys who can rush inside. Danny, Bryant, Nassib. Are they dominant? No but they also aren't being single blocked all the time either and two of them are very young.
Speaking about this year because I don't know anything about Bryant.
But, I disagree about having guys that rush inside. Nassib is undersized as an interior player and has not been effective rushing the passer from either inside or outside. He does not get double teamed. Bryant gets doubled often but none of the other interior players take advantage of their 1-on-1s.
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We could definitely use a de but it's not every day a pass rushing prospect like this comes along.
I feel the same about the 5-techs, its not very often that a 5-tech prospect like Allen comes along. And I don't think the delta between Allen and the next best 5-tech is much larger then between Garrett and the next best edge rushers.
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Plus 34 de is very strong this year.
How many prospects do you think there are at 34 DE vs Edge Rusher?
I checked him out, I don't see him as a 34 DE though...but as an edge rusher.... he's an interesting prospect, moves wells, very fluid, good size but the production isn't there he seem's like what some scouts refer to as 'body beautiful'
Looks are deceiving Clifford Charleton "Looked" the part ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
While I am on a roll Today ( Dead horse ) Hate the 3/4 for us right now , if nothing else other than Draft day .
The two best players in the draft are coming from 3-4s. And, in case it didnt sink in the other 30 times its been said, the nickle is base defense these days, 4-3 and 3-4 is antiquated.
as long as I don't see any mocks that have us trading back to 22 to select Mason Rudolph
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I have a highlight tape for those advocating for Allen. Watch Forrest Lamp of Western Kentucky against him. Lamp shut Allen down.
There is something strange happening in this forum regarding the top 2 prospects. It started with Garrett now i guess it was only a matter of time for Allen
I haven't watched the whole cut-up of the game just a 4 minute highlight. During which Allen gets a sack, blocks a kick, gets doubled but still gets a half sack. Then I looked up the game and he had a 8 tackles.
They were playing in the nickel for a fair amount of the game. Allen was playing more of an interior role and was matched up against the guards more than Lamp. But Lamp was able to kind of hold his own against Allen in the passing game, but couldn't produce any push against Allen in the run game. I'd say both players played well. I wish Lamp was 2 inches taller, he could have made a good tackle prospect. Instead he projects more as a guard.
mac, I am going to have to ask you for some articles that state that Garrett is a lazy player. I have been defending you a lot on here because I don't like when people gang-up on one guy, but man, you are starting a rumor that others seem to be believing.
Please provide a few reports that say Garrett is a lazy player. Thanks.
vers...this is one of Garrett's "best efforts".........................................
They were playing in the nickel for a fair amount of the game. Allen was playing more of an interior role and was matched up against the guards more than Lamp. But Lamp was able to kind of hold his own against Allen in the passing game, but couldn't produce any push against Allen in the run game. I'd say both players played well. I wish Lamp was 2 inches taller, he could have made a good tackle prospect. Instead he projects more as a guard.
Alabama seems to have Allen play more read and react when he's at DE and just cuts him loose at DT in nickel. I don't think Allen lines up over tackle much in the "passing game." I was kind of down on Allen's burst initially, but I think it's because the system has him reading a lot when he has an edge to hold. I really like him as an interior rusher now and think he can hold up in the running game, too.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Yep. Lots of reading and reacting, but as soon as he reacts, it's sudden and violent. Tosses tackle like they were a rag doll. Allen has one of the best bursts I've seen in awhile. When they ask Allen to cross inside on a stunt, guards don't know what hit them, he's so fast. He just appears right on top of them. Dude's a freak. I really can't wait to see the sparq score for Allen and Garrett.
I would say draft Alabamas LT he looked great then get a QB next pick ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
I like Cam Robinson as a RT only. I wouldn't want him at 1 obviously, but if things fell a certain way I wouldn't be upset with taking him with the Philly pick. I just wouldn't take him over Hooker or Adams if either were available.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
Next 3rd down they double him: 8:08 lined up @ 3tech: great jump at the snap, gets attention from the LT,LG even the Center is keeping an eye on him, pushes the pocket into (finishes with a spin move) the QB who hurries the throw
Alabama seems to have Allen play more read and react when he's at DE and just cuts him loose at DT in nickel. I don't think Allen lines up over tackle much in the "passing game." I was kind of down on Allen's burst initially, but I think it's because the system has him reading a lot when he has an edge to hold. I really like him as an interior rusher now and think he can hold up in the running game, too.
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Yep. Lots of reading and reacting, but as soon as he reacts, it's sudden and violent. Tosses tackle like they were a rag doll. Allen has one of the best bursts I've seen in awhile. When they ask Allen to cross inside on a stunt, guards don't know what hit them, he's so fast. He just appears right on top of them. Dude's a freak. I really can't wait to see the sparq score for Allen and Garrett.
Yup, when he's lined up at 5-tech he's playing his assignment. He does a great job standing up his man when he gets singled up..often even posting them with 1 freakin arm! Then when he makes his decision he tosses or evades the OL he was posting and hunts the ball carrier.
Grimm-Allen does line up wide at times. Saban lets him hunt all along the OL. When Allen has the green light to get up field he's usually the first off the ball...e.g the last gif.
Not from this game per se....But I also like his hand fighting, IF he gets teamed up w/ Joe Kim its gonna be even better.
I would say draft Alabamas LT he looked great then get a QB next pick ...
pastor...I've watched that video 4 times.. the Bama LT is the guy I was most impressed with..Cam Robinson.
Robinson is wearing knee braces, yet fast/quick enough to stay with Garrett one on one. I thought it was an outstanding battle between two of the best at their positions..a classic matchup.
From watching some of Garrett's other 2016 games I noticed a blocking mistake other teams were making when they played against Garrett..they were trying trap block..and most of the time, Garrett was too quick and blew the plays up in the backfield.
Bama must have picked up on that and in the first half they pretty much allowed Robinson to go one on one with MG, pretty much shutting MG down.
In the second half, Bama did try a few trap plays, on Garrett with mixed results. In the Pros, Garrett is going to need how use different techniques and moving him from side to side.
And when the Browns pass on Garrett and he dominates the league like V. Miller and K. Mack, you will blast the Fo for passing on him.
Y'all blow my mind. Every year, it plays out like this.........teams need a qb and teams need to rush the passer. How the hell did Denver win the Super Bowl last year? Was it their OL? LOL Was it their qb? Was it their RBs? WRs? Hell no...........it was because they had a dominant pass rush that beat Big Ben, Brady, and Cam to win the Super Bowl.
An edge rusher is huge in the grand scheme of things. QBs are number one, but there isn't one worth drafting first overall this year. Edge rushers are number two and many guys who do this for a living are calling Garrett a "generational" pass rusher. Yet, the geniuses on this board don't want to draft the guy.
Thats why my recent first-pick draft has us taking Garrett. I know we want to fix needs (both pass rush and run defense with one person), which is why Allen is so tempting to select, but we CANNOT pass on Garrett. He's too good, and will be a difference maker in disrupting our opponents passing game.
Bama was deliberately feeding garret and letting him be over aggressive on the edge because they knew he would leave a hole to run the ball through.and that he would not energetically pursue the runner. They were right.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Bama was deliberately feeding garret and letting him be over aggressive on the edge because they knew he would leave a hole to run the ball through.and that he would not energetically pursue the runner. They were right.
I admit that I did not watch the entire video, but Alabama was running away from Garrett on almost every single play.
What I learned from that video is that the "Bama offensive coaches must have a great deal of respect for Garrett, because they did their best to stay away from him.
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he looked great then get a QB next pick ... 
14:30 lined up wide: 3 & 4-win, pressure, QB hit
11:17 lined up @ 3tech:3 & 7-win, pressure, QB hit 
8:08 lined up @ 3tech: great jump at the snap, gets attention from the LT,LG even the Center is keeping an eye on him, pushes the pocket into (finishes with a spin move) the QB who hurries the throw
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