DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Coaches to Push Owner Jimmy Haslam for Front Office Changes

Correct. And the same guys who bashed me for questioning those two guys are the same guys bashing me for questioning the direction of this FO.

I disagree with some aspects of this, but it is a good post.

On to the questioning aspect. I just picked it up here.

What are you looking for in a experienced football guy? You liked Banner for the most part. Was he a football guy?

I am just confused by what it is you are looking for.

Andrew Berry has been in scouting for around 10 years. He played in college and was all-american. Does he not qualify as a football guy? My understanding is that he is the "football guy" of the group. Unless the others simply dismiss his input, I don't see that it matters if he is the guy making the call.

Holmgren screwed us so bad.

You should follow your own advice.

Look, I could care less if you guys agree w/me. I am voicing my opinions on the situation. It's a football message board, therefore expressing opinions on football matters should be acceptable. The personal attacks by guys like Deputy have no place in this discussion. You wanna join in w/him and the others, go ahead. However, I am going to express my opinions no matter what. In fact, the more you guys try to quiet me, the louder I will get.

Do you mean like the other day when you made fun of cfrs for liking Goff pre-draft? That kind of an attack?

Look... stop writing on here that people bully you. That's furthest from the truth. People don't respond aggressively just because of your 'opinion'. EVERYONE here knows it's not about that. I don't how many times this gets pointed out to you annually. Literally, it's got to be near 100 times a year. It's YOUR attacks, YOUR midnight rants that normally lead to suspensions ( probably leading the board by a margin greater than the Grand Canyon, I might add), hypocrisy in comments, name-calling etc., etc., etc.

Maybe if you stopped doing the above, people wouldn't feel so compelled to point out all your issues. But I know this won't happen and these similar posts will be written again and again and again.

Groundhog Day.

And here we go.......

How can you say "look I'm just voicing my opinions here guys" and then in the same breath condemn others for voicing theirs?



People are allowed to to disagree with you and I am certain that wasn't the same guys because some of the guys that disagree with you today weren't here during Holgrem fiasco.



If you phrased a few more of your posts like above, you would have very little drama.

Your not trying to drill your opinion into everyone's head by asking rhetorical questions for the 6th time.

You are not referring to the "homers" or other members by name that everyone else needs to ignore because they don't agree with you.

You aren't talking about the "football value" of somebody else's post with a post that has the same amount of football value.

You aren't telling someone else that because they don't agree with you that they don't want to be educated.

You aren't continuously name dropping other posters names into your arguments to attempt to try to make it look like a group effort against you.

In other words, you weren't being you.

Don't get me wrong, people will still disagree and that will just kill you which will probably still lead to drama eventually, but it won't be with a post like that one.

If you don't like what you're reaping, take a long look at what you are sewing.

I really didn't want to post today...but that was a GOOD post Vers. I don't agree with it but understand your thoughts about it. Your a good guy Vers. just try to keep it all in front of you. We all wish you the best. Keep it up on the good posts.

Anybody: What made holmgren so bad besides hiring Schrumer?

Some of you posters really crack me up ! My dad is bigger than yours , lol .

I am willing to bet ANYONE on the board a small sum of $$$ that I can choose , say 5 or six posters on the our board , combine their draft boards , and turn this Team around in a couple of Seasons .. Absolutely no doubt in Military mind , period .

This ain't rocket science .. Ego's of the ((Good old boy and Academia Elites our a base problem .

Imagine if he had been able to trade all those picks for RGIII. And then Shurmur would have coached Griffin and we wouldn't have even gotten his great rookie year.

It could have been much worse.

Don't forget he and Heckert also traded up for TRich.

Also, The Big Show actually took vacations during the season. LOL

Holmgren was also in favor of Rick Mirer over Brett Favre and we all know how that turned out... yet he sold everyone into believing he was a QB guru.

But that's not what this thread is about... moving on.

Mirer - man, that takes me back. Watched a few of his games when he was in H.S. Unbelievable arm for a h.s. qb.

Also, his parents lived on a golf course. I accidentally hit a golf ball in their pool one time.

Heckert was by far the best GM we've had since the return. Having to work for Holmgren and whatever personal demons he had were his undoing. If it ever turned out this way, I'd love to have Heckert back.

Holmgren turned out to be fraud and scam artist. I think that is by far the most disappointing performance of any FO guy since the return since so there was so much hope and so much was expected.

Not to mention that when we had finally had enough of Charlie Frye, it was Holmgren who actually traded for him with us. That should have been a huge flashing warning light, right there.

heard about your golf game. sure it was only once.

I don't respond to reports from that rEporter. Holy Crap, Thank God, and good job Jimmy.

I didn't think he had the balls to say it. But he did. Good job Jimmy. You just earned my respect bro

Yeah and he did it with style and subtlety. I mean you hear him say it so matter of factly but that's EXACTLY why it's so devastating. That's a total dismissal that severely discredits that writers articles forevermore. Love it =)

H and H both sucked eggs.

So what you're are saying having a "Football Guy" may not be the answer.

What "Football Guy" with experience would come here and fit into the current structure not cause riffs and how much time would they get to make improvements before they were considered a failure?

I follow it every day, Have for 40 or more years when I came up with that as my "Quote".


I am not as sharpe as I once was, but am far from being a dummy.




So, what are we looking for here??

I am unclear as to what you mean?

You are uncler?


I spelled it out earlier.



What are you looking for? We have football people in place.


If it is just different football people, then that is your opinion. I respect your opinion.


We just disagree.

I don't know, peen. I don't who is available. I don't know who would even come here.

I just know that I think that Sashi isn't qualified to head the football side of operations. Posters can talk all the crap they want to me. They can turn it into something personal, but until he proves otherwise, I feel that the evidence is favors my opinion. The guy didn't do anything that is related to evaluating personnel before he got this job. If he did, that sure as hell blows the crap out of the excuse that you can't hold this FO accountable for past mistakes.

Peen, you called Hue a punk. You said he should hit the road. No one said a word to you other than me. Yet, I question Sashi Brown and the FO, and I am attacked repeatedly.

So bro..........I suggest you look at your sig again before you respond to me.

I'm pretty sure that Sashi's job is not to evaluate players on the field. He is to make sure everyone is playing nice, basically.

I wish they would name Berry General Manager so people would stop confusing who does what.

Do you have some inside information as to who does what?

GM does, if you or anybody else have faith in his inside take and honesty.

I'm pretty sure they talked about Sashi's job at his intro conference.

I was asking big because he said people are confusing who does what. I am just wondering if he has inside information or if he is talking out of his butt????????????

I can help with that.



You're welcome.

Two things .

1. Does/ would, this move help you beat the steelers?

2. Unless the owner comes out and says, I guarantee he will be here 3 or 4 years down the road, then what does it matter?

Unless this guy isn't on the proverbial 18 month lease (leash) that just about everybody that has joined the Browns since 2006 has been on, :

then hiring, or not hiring they guy, the choice to, or not to is moot.

Same expected results either way.

I guess I just don't get why said people are confused?

Becaus Brown states that they would bring in a football guy, who turned into Berry, to be lead scout and talent evaluator. Brown is in charge of managing everyone from there, more of a overseer than head talent evaluator.

So, who makes the final decision w/so many voices in the equation?

I don't and I'm on their side. This is a COMPLETE rebuild. Next year we will have even MORE rookies playing. We have a plethora of draft picks this year. One would expect them to keep the young guys and purge the old. That IS the plan of a rebuild. We could easily go 2-14 o4 3-13 next year. Where I expect marked improvement is year three. Then year four a real surge..... That is the plan. Now, can the fans and the Haslams be patient enough to see it through?
Hell, a lot of fans were jumping ship in week one and Haslam has a pretty crappy record. So I am dubious about the chances of that happening......


Vers, you may or may not be right about the front office. Right now it is unknown. Schrödinger's cat.

I know that if you got your wish and Haslam fired everyone in the FO again and hired a "football guy" the very first thing that football guy would do is fire the entire coaching staff and hire HIS guy. Then we would be right back to season one of a rebuild.

They all do. Or at least that is how I understand the set up.

I kind of look at it like arbitration/mediation. Sashi is the guy taking the 2 sides (personnel/coaching) and leading them/helping them to a consensus. Hue is representing the coaching "side" and Berry is the personnel "side". Sashi is weighing the arguments and trying to find common ground between them. I think of Depo as basically an expert witness.

If they can't come to some agreement, Sashi has the final say, but the goal is to get everyone to come together.

Hopefully it is slightly less adversarial than one thinks in regards to legal arbitration.

They say they are working together well and are on the same page. Whether that is true behind closed doors, I don't know. For now I will give them the benefit of the doubt as far as that's concerned. I'm not sure I'd want to add another different football voice if that is true.

Vers is hung up on "final say". He is old school, as am I. He came up where one boss ran the office. The younger generation are more about focus groups and team builing.

It took me a while to understand that is the way things are done these days.

As Haslam stated, Berry is in charge of finding the talent and setting the board. He steps in if say Berry and Hue can't agree on who to select. Browns hears both out and takes a side. One of Berry or Hue are actually making the decision on who to take. I don't see any situation where Berry and Hue agree on who we want and Sashi say no to both and say "We are going to take this guy". Just don't see it.

Well based on last years Draft ; I would say neither Hue or Berry are very good at evaluating talent ! And that brings us back to square one .