DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Ray Horton out as Defensive Coordinator

You're stealing my thunder, Spirit...

j/c:

The other day, a few posters chided me for saying that Haslam isn't trustworthy.

Well, here is this:



LOL............the snake never stops striking and posters can't stop defending him.

Sounds like a native american god.

You know, I predicted that the coaches would end up taking the blame for how poor the roster was. The Others, led by Deputy, acted like I was insane for such a point of view.

I thought the firings would begin next year, but it's already started. This team blows!

No one could have gotten that unit to play well. They don't have a true pass rusher. They let their experienced players go to save money. They let Gipson walk in FA. They have the worst secondary in the league. They were cheap in FA. Yet, it's all Horton's fault.

One more time.............this organization blows!

Ah...maybe because Haslem did not have anything to do with this?
I think Horton's hire was a last ditch effort last yr. because the one Hue wanted was not there. He now has his chance to have someone he wants. Go for it....It's not like he's replacing the '85 Bears. I really don't think Haslem had anything to do with this. If Hue wanted to replace some people then have at it.

Who made the call on Horton? I would expect it was Hue's, not Jimmy's...

Your getting as bad as Mac...This Org. can do no right in your eye's. Everybody has there thoughts on the FO, looks like it's gonna be a long year for you. Hope you take life easy.

I believe this is correct. Many of the beat reporters have been hinting at a move since Hue's last press conference.

Here is a list of the Rams coaching staff:

http://www.therams.com/team/coaches.html

I wouldn't be shocked if a few of these guys made their way to Cleveland if Gregg Williams is hired.

I could be wrong, but didn't Haslam say no changes to the front office structure?

Just to be clear, it is a bad thing that Ray Horton appears to be on his way out. It means we hired the wrong person for the job last year. That is a bad thing. That is a year wasted where our players did not get the coaching that our head coach thought they should be getting.

Am I correct in saying that you believe this was not Hue's doing?

can't believe some are acting like the Browns are firing the 2nd coming of Bud Carson
Horton sucked here when he had better talent the first time around.
his defenses always give up 20 plus points a Game
and hardly win the takeaway battle
Greg Williams isn't much better
he's more of a name and a product of headlines more so than bein
a coach that can shut down offenses
Horton won't be missed the numbers reflect that

For the record, you're saying Haslem made this call, not Hue?

I am OK with Horton going. It is no secret that I greatly disliked the hire when it was made, so I am OK with him hitting the door.

He did have a ton of youth on the defensive side of the ball, and in reality we had that everywhere. I do think that we have some talent on the defensive side of the ball, but we saw little progress there. Horton's defense is, notoriously, difficult to learn. When we consider that we will almost certainly add at least 2-3 defensive players in the 1st 3 rounds of the coming draft, we have to ask how long it will take for those players to get up to speed. (and also if we sign any free agents)

I do think that the entire coaching staff had a tough row to hoe, but they still have to get some results somewhere. I think that there are much better defensive coordinators out there, and hopefully we wind up bringing a good one in.

For the record, I am not a huge fan of Gregg Williams either. It will be interesting to see who we bring in. I am not sad to see Horton go, though.

And people said Horton should have been fired after the first game. Give them credit too.

Ugh... I really wish we didn't come off as a bunch of disorganized asshats all the time.

Haslam says the coaches did great, then we proceed to fire a coordinator.


Being the glass-half-full guy that I am, I do see some potential positives. In past rendition s of this exercise, it seemed like we fired someone, and then entered a prolonged period of "now what?". It looks like we have our ducks in a row a little more this time around. Also, I've soured on Horton. I've slowly grown very tired of these exotic and complicated 3-4 schemes. Our best defense was when Jauron was here with his boring scheme. The coordinators we have brought in with the crazy schemes have been all talk, and no results.

I do feel bad for Horton this time around. We brought him back, dropped a bunch of talent from the d, and then can him after the season.

Like when Banner fired Chud?

Yes, you are wrong.

[quoteQuote]
Browns' Jimmy Haslam: 'We have the right people in place'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on January 01, 2017 at 6:36 PM, updated January 01, 2017 at 8:03 PM

PITTSBURGH, Pa. -- Browns owner Jimmy Haslam really won't be blowing anything up this year.

Despite the 1-15 season, he's keeping his analytics-based personnel department intact and said he is overjoyed with Hue Jackson.

"I think we have the right people in place,'' Haslam said in an interview after Sunday's 27-24 overtime loss to the Steelers. "I could not be more pleased with the job that Hue and his staff are doing. You wouldn't think this was a team that was 1-14 that was out there battling. What did we play today? 70-plus minutes of football? So really pleased with Hue and really pleased with our personnel group.''[/quote]

And you are getting as bad as Vambo. The owner and FO never make a mistake.

Firing coaches due to poor talent is lame.

For the record, I am saying that the Browns are firing coaches because the personnel sucks. And that is what I have been saying would happen for awhile now.

For the record, are you saying that firing Horton is a good move considering the personnel he was given?

But who do you believe made the call?

Not impressed with Horton - but with the idea and concept of continuation ... and based on how poor the talent was he had to work with, I am disappointed.

Having said that - I can see the attraction of a 4-3 base scheme and think that will help some of the players on the rooster.

I get the posters are saying teams are bit in the base D 60% of the time..... but maybe the emphasis needs to be the other way round. we'll be in a base D 40% of the time and that will help several starters on 40% of the snaps!

As for whose decision and whether Haslam lied ... I just don't see the issue and believe 100% this is Hue's decision. But no doubt that won't be the last time I don't agree with some.

I do notice how Haslam has been handed a wide slice of criticism but despite many posters seekeing clarification - no-one yet verifying they think the decision was Haslam's.

Who cares?

Why are you asking? Do you wanna throw it in my face later, just in case I am wrong this time?

Are you lowering yourself to Memphis' standards? Seriously?

I wasn't in the room, so I have no idea who made the call. Do you?

All I know is that I predicted that the coaches would be blamed for the poor personnel that ownership and the FO provided and there is already one firing after one year.

That's the bottom line and this stupid middle school girl game that so many of you want to play is beyond annoying.

That's great, but it is also incorrect.

I was listening to KNR when I was in Ohio signing the papers to sell my house. They gave the actual percentages of what defense the Browns played throughout the season.

The nickle was as expected. However, the remaining 30--35 percent was divided up between playing a 3-4 AND a 4-3. The 3-4 was more, but we played a ton of 4-3, also.

Ahhhhh...........now I finally get why guys like you, 32, Memphis, cfrs, bleed, etc are bringing this point up over and over and over.

Hue will be the next fall guy. Y'all will be calling for his head about halfway through next year.

And our owner will still go untouched by your crew. LOL.......freaking amazing.

For the record, that's not the question I asked you. I asked, considering you've backed Hue, are you saying Haslem made this call or Hue?

Who the hell do you think you are? Seriously?

I said I have no idea? Do you?

And you did not answer my question. As usual. You just keep playing the role of meanest middle school girl on the board.

/popcorn

I'd like to continue providing entertainment for you by schooling Memphis, but I would get suspended for saying the same things he says.

Funny how that works on here.

I have no problem with this. Ray is like Mo Carthon.

Mo was a running backs coach in over his head, Ray is a LB coach in over his head.

There is nothing wrong with topping out as a position coach in the NFL. They make good money. One site I checked said they could make up to a mil a year. That seems high to me.....say 200K to go low. $200,000 a year puts you in a nice house and you don't worry much unless you try to live a $300,000 lifestyle.


Have a nice home in Bay or Westlake you pay off in a 2-3 years. Eat out all you want. Stick 40-50K a year in the bank for the retirement years.


At any rate, I didn't like Ray the first go around. I don't blame Jimmy for not wanting to pay that guy any longer.


I wouldn't.

Except most coach's contract are guaranteed.

Good riddance. WGARA who made the call? The man is an awful DC. I'd love Wade Phillips but Greg Williams is a good coach who, if he takes the job, will instill discipline, teach the players to attack, and maybe even grow some balls instead of getting pushed around like a bunch of candy-asses. This is a solid move. It's just damn unfortunate it couldn't happen 10 weeks ago.

Good point. I'd rather pay him to not have him here.


You?? You liked Ray?

j/c:

I just want to know who was in the room w/Haslam, the FO, and Hue? How are people so positive that the firing of Horton was solely Hue's doing?

Again, were you in the room?

I have no idea who really wanted Horton fired. I don't think you guys do either. I think you are protecting the owner and the FO. And next year, you'll be calling for Hue to be fired.

What I do know is that when a team loses a huge amount of games, there is almost always a negative fall out. Coaches get blamed for the mistakes of the FO.

Now, if this was truly a rebuild like they say it is and that they didn't expect to win games this year...........why is there a need to fire a coach who had very little to work with and actually had the defense performing better as the year progressed?

And a lot of the guys making the strongest arguments about my logic are the very same guys who were calling me out about Farmer not too long ago.

Funny how that works.

You totally schooled me with your hypocritical rhetoric, dodging questions, and gifs of babies crying. Can you tell us how you schooled clevesteve when you told him how dumb he was for liking Derek Carr?

I am not protecting the owner. In my last post I said Jimmy probably didn't want to pay him. I also think that Hue came to the conclusion Ray was a liability.

Quit protecting the coaches!;)

We just went through a poor season by any measure, and by any measue, the D sucked. Ray was in charge.



My feeling is Ray is a good coach who got Rooney ruled in to a failed D coordinator. I know some will claim that to be a racist statement, but I don't care because in my heart I know it's not, and to post in your style about not being in the room, you or others don't know what is in my heart, do you?


I hope Ray gets over it, lands a good job when he is ready to go back in, and makes a good living for as long as he wants to coach.


I am sure Ray is a good coach and a great guy. You don't attain what he has without being such.

This is more or less how I feel. Sure - he had little to work with. Our talent is poor. But he really hasn't coached a good D in quite some time. When we got rid of him last time, I really don't remember too many people upset at it. I do remember a lot of people questioning why we brought him back this year. Not sure if anyone was stoked about the return of Horton.

Again, he did not have much to work with. But his history is against him. What has he done lately to make anyone think he would have done fine if he had more talent?

It does fly in the face of continuity, but this move does not shake me much.

I don't think I ever called steve dumb. On the other hand, I have told him several times that he was right about Carr and I was wrong. That's something you would be unable to do.

You still have not answered the question about whether or not you were in the room w/Jimmy, Sashi, Depo, Hue, etc and have inside information as to whose idea it was to fire Horton?

I'll be waiting....................and waiting...........and waiting....

Okay...........what has Sashi done to inspire confidence?

What has Haslam done to inspire confidence?

What has anyone in the FO done to inspire confidence?

Look..............I told you guys this was going to happen and Deputy {I guess because he has a pic of him wearing a cop's uniform} told me that I was out of line and all The Others backed him up.

Well, now what?

Year one, and already one coach is gone.

Have you guys not seen this movie before?