DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jimmy Garoppolo trade to the Browns...rumor

Hopefully Hue does because we need as many picks to hit as we can and I am assuming that he'd be the one to say yes or no.

Great to fantasize about but the reality is that this league is SEVERELY starved for quality QBs. Jimmy G. is head and heals better than anything in this draft at the QB position. It's not even remotely close.

It's going to take at the very least a first round pick to get him. If we don't then some other team will. I'd rather be that team and have the solution to the biggest problem our team faces.

Our fans would not know what hit them after getting to see a real QB put on that Brown's Jersey after so long of watching the crud we prance out there. Football would be FUN to watch again rather than a test of endurance and pain threshold.

I say do whatever it takes and make it happen.

I was right on all of them too. The other major QB from that draft in many people's eyes was Jimmy G. I am right about him too. I still have hope we can correct that mistake.

Where are y'all getting this "Jimmy g is better than anything out of the draft" stuff at?

The guy has done absolutely nothing in the NFL to even consider using a 2nd rounder to trade for him. Never mind a 1st.

The guy has been riding the bench for the last 3 years, started two games, and got injured in his 2nd ever career start.

And you want to burn a first rounder on a backup who was draft in the 2nd round 3 years ago?

Yikes.

well swish some of us actually evaluate the QB instead of pedigree and stats. When you watch him play its very obvious why he is thought of so well. I don't care where he was drafted and injuries happen to all players. He has all the skills. Makes beautiful passes. Sharp and very fast decision making. Knows how to throw a WR open instead of just throwing a jump ball and hoping for the best or constantly putting the ball on the back shoulder so the WR has to twist backwards to catch and then get NAILED while running blind. He gets it done on the field PERIOD. Off the field he is a total class act and studies like a nut.

He is way better than anything in this draft.

You got all of that out of one and half games in the NFL?

I'm guessing you wanted us to get Matt Flynn as well, huh? I mean he went absolutely off in one whole game. He must be a GOAT, right?

You said the same exact thing about Ryan Mallet. Sorry if I don't have that much confidence in your evaluations.

God, I hope the Browns don't make such a silly move. I rather them burn the 12th on Trubisky than waste it on jimmy G.

Never cared for any of the other QB's from NE. Didn't care for them before they were drafted or after. I have been a fan of Jimmy G. for quite a long time. His NFL games only confirmed what I already knew. Lol I mean you act like he played poorly or something but he put up tom brady numbers and played fantastic.

Matt Cassel put up Brady numbers as well.

I see so if you play great in NE that somehow translates to not being able to play at the NFL level right?

at the QB position? it's certainly probable.

Ryan Mallet.

Matt Cassel.

Bryan Hoyer.

0-3.

you got better odds in the draft that somebody becomes a franchise QB compared to a Patriot backup.

Dude, you're stuck in that generalization gap. No NE QB is worth anything. It's an always has been, always will be thing.

And it's Dead Nuts WRONG.

Stack Flynn, Mallet, Hoyer and Garoppolo side by side.

If you can't see the difference there's no hope for you.

That isn't fair. That would have been like saying Aaron Rogers isn't any good because all he did was sit behind Favre for 4 years. I am not saying JG is going to be a Rogers. I am just saying there is a compelling reason why JG is sitting the bench.

I get why he's sitting the bench..what I don't understand as far as everyone thinking he is the next big thing is this...

Why was he available to a team that didn't really need a QB in the first place?

He was passed over by every QB needy team AND the Patriots once before finally being selected. This was a QB starved draft, in this NFL every QB is lifted above what they are actually perceived to be worth, simply because of need. Yet 61 players went before he did...

Now, I get WHY he was sitting behind Tom Brady, that isn't the argument. The argument is, why do you think he is what every other NFL team didn't 3 years ago? What has he done to change that perception? The only real accomplishment is 1) positive, played a great single game 2) negative, was injured in his second game ever started.

Why on earth would you want to spend a high second, or in this case a first, round draft pick on someone that hasn't succeeded to date? He had an opportunity to go out and showcases himself for 3 games while Brady was suspended, couldn't do it, he only made it through half of that showcase due to injury.

I just don't see the value here, not at all.

How is it wrong?

All I'm doing is laying out my opinion on why we shouldn't be giving up first and second rounders on a backup.

0-3.

Odds say franchise QB is more likely found in the draft than from another team.

Look around the league. The odds line up with that reasoning.

Sure it's fair.

Rodgers was always gonna be the next guy in Green Bay. He was gonna be starting at some point.

Jimmy g got taken for no other reason than insurance just in case the GOAT got hurt.

Mean hell I saw Brisett, a rookie come in to finish the game off. Then he started and played very well.

How come nobody is talking about giving up a first for him?

Sorry but if y'all was talking about giving up a 3rd for Jimmy g, then whatever.

But Jesus bro, people are talking about our freaking first rounder.

He's a first rounder based on what? Hype?

If you're gonna go off of hype, might as well take the QB who just won a title with the 12th overall.

Jimmy was never an insurance policy, he was drafted to be a potential replacement. NOBODY thought Brady would play this well at his age.

We must have seen a different Brissett. He was okay. I give him a pass for a tough situation.

And yet, Jimmy g could still be the heir one day.

So why trade him?

The reality is that BB is about to fleece someone with this trade. Do you want to be the team that got played? I certainly don't.

LOL,, true, but wasn't it about the same last year with Goff and Wentz and that didn't stop teams from taking them 1&2.

I mean I know that Goff was considered real, but not Payton Manning real.

As for what to give for Garoppolo, I've no idea what they'll want. Not even sure he's right for us.

Carr was also drafted in the second round of that very same draft. Guess he he sucks, too.

People who actually watched Jimmy G play in college have spoken over and over and over about why he is good. Guys like you and Swish completely ignore those opinions and throw out genius stuff like he isn't any good because he plays for New England and was drafted in the second round.

Man, how terrible is Dak? He wasn't drafted until round four. And Brady must really, really suck. He was drafted in the sixth round and plays for New England.

Great logic.

You had Goff rated over Wentz.

What's that tell us about your own evaluations?

I can use whatever criteria I choose. Most likely jimmy g is gonna go somewhere. So let's wait and see how he turns out.

I just hope we watch him from another team.

That was cfrs, not me. I had Wentz over Goff. I had Lynch over Goff. I did not like Goff at all.

They trade him because he's about to be a free agent that wants to be paid. How can they afford him and Brady?

JC

Every time I open this thread I fear reading that the the browns were stupid enough to trade a first round for Jimmy G. I am happy my fear did not turn into reality.

Thats all.

You don't have to worry about that until March 9th at the earliest, the start of the new league year.

I'm not talking about talking heads, I'm talking about actual GMs who do this for a living...

Yes Carr was a 2nd rounder, how many others are drafted that do not make...how many 1st rounders? Hell, Bortles was taken in the top 5 of that draft, he is just about done in Jax.

It won't stop teams from over drafting, and some team will over pay for Garoppolo as well..I just don't think it will be our analytically inclined front office.

I think they will continue building this franchise the right way..the same as Oakland did, so that when Carr did come along, he had a team ready to support him. Do you really think that Carr would be as successful had he been drafted to Cleveland? I'm curious if you believe all the success is put on the shoulders of a QB?

This team is not ready for a just above average QB...If it were, we would be winning with Kessler.

Kessler? LOL......

Have a good one, Irish.

My 2 cents.

I think the Patriots are willing to take that cap hit on Jimmy G for 2017 and let the chips fall where they may in the 2018 UFA. Brady is winding down his career now and not having Jimmy G. for backup may be a bigger gamble than Bill is willing to accept for the 2017 season. The playoffs this year could show us a bigger picture. We shall see.

I think the Pats are high on Brissett and that they think he has better upside than Jimmy G.

Neither are as good as Brady yet, so roll the one whose contract is about to jump up into draft capital. Jimmy could be a solid QB, but I don't think he'll be a great one. (Mainly because he appears available.) Brissett is still cost controlled, and I've heard lots of raving about his intangibles. If he puts it all together with his tools, he could be a great one down the road, perhaps.

I'd take Jimmy if the price was right because we could use competent QB play, but I wouldn't break the bank for him. He'd be expected to play right away and could struggle with the transition to a new system.

We don't seem to have much patience with early struggles.

Just curious Vers, can you read more than one word in a post?

I view Kessler as an average QB, due to how he actually performed in 8 professional games. My point is, in order to win with an average QB, you need a team built to support that.

You apparently have a high opinion on Derek Carr, since you mentioned him earlier...

Here are some stats that can be compared from this past season:

Garoppolo 1 1/2 games, 8.0 ypa,68.3% comp., 113.3 QBR
Kessler 8 games, 7.1 ypa,65.6% comp., 92.3 QBR
Carr 15 games, 7.0 ypa, 63.8% comp., 96.7 QBR

I don't know what other numbers you can compare due to difference in games played...but Kessler compared well to Carr, with a much lower talent surrounding cast.

I think he proved he is an average QB being thrown into the fire.

I don't believe you can draw a conclusion about Jimmy G based on 1.5 games.. those number certainly look good, no argument from me, but the sample size is way to small to even consider it.

As for Carr, hey, in two years, he's thrown for around 8000 yards and he has a pretty good INT to TD ratio.

Not sure that Jimmy G is in the league.. Not saying he isn't, I'm just not sure.

I'm not pining for Garoppolo, this was in response to Vers trying to ridicule me for saying the Browns could win some games with tools to support Kessler. It showed Kessler is an average QB (much the same I believe Garoppolo is an average QB). He mentioned Carr earlier, so I through Carr in there to show he is also an average QB, but with much better tools to succeed.

As far as efficiency is concerned, Kessler was right there...He simply doesn't have the arm to make all the throws needed to fit into that franchise status. But, he can move the chains with help around him.

Carr would likely BE a Brown had not Haslam insisted on Manzel. Farmer called him the best pure passer in the draft, and IMHO he would have taken him. Personally, I was pissed when we took Manzel over Carr. Stupid, stupid move.

No, that isn't what I was saying. I was laughing that you think Kessler is an above average qb.

I was worried about Carr, but as it turns out it was unfounded fear.

I would have gladly taken Carr over Manziel.....

I've still not seen any proof that Haslam demanded Manziel be picked!

Well for his extremely small sample size, his numbers are right at and slightly above average for almost everything. That is with a less than stellar supporting cast and having to run for his life often.

I don't know what you are considering average QB, but I am basing it on his numbers for his 8 games, which he was rated in the 14-16 range for most of his numbers, even though about 35-37 QBs qualified for averages. That places him slightly above average for the QBs in the league in 2016.

So...keep laughing sunshine

Short of video of the process, what type of "proof" could you expect? You have to ask yourself, who could have made this decision? Only two people, Haslam or Farmer. Which one of them would see drafting him as a clear advantage? The answer is Haslam, and the motivation is simple: ticket sales. Then ask yourself, would Farmer be most likely to draft Carr or Manzel, with his professional career forever tied to that selection, when he publicly stated he considered Carr to be the best pure passer in the draft. Then there's this:

Link

But yeah, technically, there's no proof, just like there's no proof there was a second gunman, or that FDR knew the Japanese were flying to Hawaii.

Oh I'm not sure he's right for us either. Point being, there wasn't a highly regarded QB on the trading block last year. I'm also going by the popular theory that Jimmy G. is better than any of the QB's in this years draft.

And why did Goff and Wentz go #1 and #2? Because it's a QB starved league. It's why a the QB position gets overdrafted on a regular basis. I actually advocated drafting Wentz at #2 last year. I don't feel strongly about any QB in this draft.

I believe that there will be more than one team in the Jimmy G. Sweepstakes because I feel many will think he has better potential and a day 1 starter. Now I don't know if that will turn out to be true or not, but it happens a lot.

Competition always drives the price up and QB always costs a premium. So while I'm neither advocating it nor dismissing it, BB will get a first rounder for Jimmy G. Whether that ends up being us or not remains to be seen.

As a prospect? I don't think so.

As a day 1 starter? Yes. But that's true for any QB that's played in the league compared to a rookie.

If the Hue goes after an outside QB i don't understand why McCarron isn't a better fit then Jimmy G.

Actually, my point all along is that in a QB starved league, someone will end up giving the Pats a first rounder for Jimmy G. I believe the idea that he can be had for a second rounder will prove to be false.