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Per NFL interpretation, all assistant coaches are considered equal.
So Qb coach to OC is a lateral move, unless you add the Assistant HC title


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I bet they move Al Saunders to OC/Passing Game coordinator. But they need a QB coach still...


you had a good run Hank.
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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Why would an OC come here?
Compared to an opportunity where an OC can call plays coming to Cleveland would be a lesser option. But compared to not being in the league at all any OC job is a good job.



Didn't Fisher's son pass up an opportunity to sign w/the Browns and instead choose to sit out next season?


Here is an article about it:

Quote:
Jeff Fisher's son Brandon will no longer coach with Cleveland Browns



By: Bryan Kalbrosky | 9 hours ago
Brandon Fisher, son of former Los Angeles Rams head coach Jeff Fisher, had planned to join Gregg Williams on the Cleveland Browns staff.


Gregg Williams expected to bring three Rams coaches to Browns staff
Now, Fisher has changed his mind and will not follow his former defensive coordinator to Cleveland.


Rams DB coach Brandon Fisher (son of Jeff) considered joining DC Gregg Williams on Hue Jackson's Browns' staff but plans to sit out in 2017

Williams was expected to bring Fisher, his own son Blake Williams as well as Dennard Wilson to Cleveland.

It remains unclear why Brandon has decided against coaching with the Browns.

According to ESPN’s Tony Grossi, Dennard Wilson was also expected to join Williams in Cleveland. Instead, he will be coaching with the New York Jets.


http://theramswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/...coaching-staff/


The news just keeps getting better and better and better.

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LOL How is this bad news?


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Coaches turning down the opportunity to work for the Browns is good news?

LOL...........okay.

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I agree my friend. Maybe you agree with me as well. We hired Hue for his O. Anybody with a "set" is going to want to make his his own name. They aren't going to be thrilled to be handed the Hue offensive playbook.


The only ones willing, IMO, are slackers wanting to make a big jump without being any good.


If it was me, I walk in to the room, hand them my play book, and say this is what I am running. Take it or leave it.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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That sounds great. Full of bravado. However, an intelligent man listens to those who have more expertise than they do in certain areas.

Btw--------------did you guys know that one of the reasons that Hue was fired from Oakland was because of the power play he made there?

Sounding familiar?

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Coaches turning down the opportunity to work for the Browns is good news?

LOL...........okay.


I am sure we can all name several guys who coached here in Cleveland that we wish would have never coached here.


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The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
It was Jeff Fisher who said;
"What in the hell is going on up there"
That was many firings,rebuilds,reorgs and purges ago.
He caught hell for it on here,but it was a good question then,and it still is.
If he was my kid,I would tell him that coaching for the Browns would not be a good career move.


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j/c...

Pep is not listed in the official web site article on Coaching moves. But clearly he is not listed on our Coaching staff.

I don't see a big name OC coming here as they will not have control of the O.

I do see Al Saunders becoming that guy...Saunders son would take over the WR coaching duties.

QB coach...Some teams don't carry one...but usually that is a team with a well established Franchise QB on it.

Wonder if Hue can convince his friend Tom House to come on board as our QB coach...that would be a big WIN situation for our staff.

So we possibly could hire another WR coach if Saunders moves up to OC.

Also in the event we release McCown and he cannot hook up with another team we could hire him as the QB coach???

Just thinking out loud.


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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I agree my friend. Maybe you agree with me as well. We hired Hue for his O. Anybody with a "set" is going to want to make his his own name. They aren't going to be thrilled to be handed the Hue offensive playbook.


The only ones willing, IMO, are slackers wanting to make a big jump without being any good.


If it was me, I walk in to the room, hand them my play book, and say this is what I am running. Take it or leave it.


Agree 100% with u ...




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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I agree my friend. Maybe you agree with me as well. We hired Hue for his O. Anybody with a "set" is going to want to make his his own name. They aren't going to be thrilled to be handed the Hue offensive playbook.


The only ones willing, IMO, are slackers wanting to make a big jump without being any good.


If it was me, I walk in to the room, hand them my play book, and say this is what I am running. Take it or leave it.
I guess you can characterize it however you like...but its not unheard of that good OC can rise up in situations where they aren't the playcaller. An OC has many other duties outside of calling the plays.

2 example from memory are Sean McVay and Doug Pederson then there are the plethora of coaches from WCO offenses w/ 49ers/Eagles/Packers that became OC and then HC without being the playcaller.

You can call them slackers or up can comers. What's in a name?

Either way we dice it up the staff needs an OC and a QB coach.

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I think any coach who has been an OC with play calling duties on his resume would turn this job down.

I think an up and comer would make the jump from position coach to OC without play calling duties and see it as a stepping stone position. Maybe with a verbal agreement that he would get some play calling experience. Maybe just a few plays in the middle of the game then increasing over time to full time play caller.

I have always thought that it would be a good idea for the OC to give the position coaches some play calling experience. For several reasons. First, it makes it harder for other teams to figure out your tendencies if someone else is randomly calling an offensive series each game. Second, it helps to groom an in-house replacement for when our OC gets tagged for a HC position on another team. Benefits our team from that standpoint but beneficial for the OC because he can take one of those position coaches to be his OC with his new team.


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I think were 98% in agreement here and are not on the same page ...

1st ... i think were attaching two different meanings to the title OC ...

To me .. Hue is our OC ... cause he calls the plays .. to me the person that calls they plays is the OC ...

Not sure what u mean by we need an OC ... sounds like u want to have someone be given the title OC whose duties are to aide and assist Hue with all the prep and stuff leading up to game day with/for him but his duties do not include calling the plays ...

Is that what u mean? ...

If so .. were about 98% in agreement in my eyes ...




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yep hue designed the offense, Hue calls the play, Pep did all the grunt work, hmm instead of ass. head coach lol couldnt resist, he was a well paid intern with authoratah

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This seems like a bad idea (or an excuse to not hire anyone):

Quote:
Browns coach Hue Jackson has yet to hire someone to replace departed associate head coach-offense Pep Hamilton, and he plans to use his staff’s experience coaching in the Senior Bowl next week in Mobile, Ala., to help him decide whether an addition is necessary.
Jackson calls the play on offense, but Hamilton still held an important role last season. He served as a quarterbacks coach and helped install game plans and run practices.

So when Hamilton left the Browns on Jan. 9 to become the assistant head coach and passing game coordinator at the University of Michigan, the door opened for Jackson to make a key hire.

“I feel pretty good about our staff right now. I think people truly believe we have another position open, and maybe we do, maybe we don’t,” Jackson said Thursday night. “It all depends on how I see it and feel about it.

“I feel good about the guys I have, and [the Senior Bowl presents] a chance for us to go out there and practice and for me to watch our staff in its entirety and then see if we do need to make an addition. But I feel good about where we are right now.”

Jackson retained three veteran assistants on offense who could theoretically be used differently should he decide not to hire a replacement for Hamilton. They are running backs coach/run game coordinator Kirby Wilson, senior offensive assistant/wide receivers coach Al Saunders and tight ends coach Greg Seamon.

“I hated to see him go,” Jackson said of Hamilton. “He did what he had to do, but I feel like we have some very capable people here that can fill the void if need to.”

If Jackson ultimately sees a need to hire someone, he might run into some candidates at the Senior Bowl.

Phil Savage, the game’s executive director and former Browns general manager, calls the Senior Bowl “the unofficial NFL convention.” It’s not unusual for coaches looking to fill out their staffs to conduct interviews at the showcase.

But until Jackson decides whether he needs reinforcements, he considers evaluating prospects and developing a feel for coaching with new Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams his top Senior Bowl priorities.

“It’ll be great as long as me and Gregg don’t tackle each other before it starts,” Jackson said with a laugh. “No, it’ll be really good. Just being back out on the grass, it’s what we all love to do. We all love to teach, motivate, organize and get a group of guys to be the best they can be. We are there to evaluate as well. We want to ... see if we can instruct some men to do things our way and see if they’ll buy in.”


In the end my guess is that Al Saunders will be the OC/QB coach (under some new title), Wilson will stay the same, and Al Saunders' son will become the wide receiver coach.

I know the Senior Bowl is also a giant job fair for football people, so it would not surprise if we came out of it with a new staff addition (or two).

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In the end, my guess there will be more firings because this team is going to lose a ton of games.

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O'Connell was just picked up by the Redskins.

I would have liked to see him come back. He did a good job while he was here.

Who's gonna squirt the water bottle on the qb's we are scouting?

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
In the end, my guess there will be more firings because this team is going to lose a ton of games.


We probably won't win more than seven games next year - MAX - but IMO we will be much better than in 2016. It's almost impossible to NOT improve, with all our rookies entering year 2.
If we go 5-11 or 6-10 and show growth I doubt anyone will get canned.


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The problem is that we are more likely to go 2 and 14 than 6 and 10.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
The problem is that we are more likely to go 2 and 14 than 6 and 10.


Reminds me of when I was reading about Chris Palmer, after his second season, the Browns FO asked him how many games he thought they'd win the following season..

He said, about 5 maybe 6.. And got fired.

Butch came in, spent a bunch of money on FAs, and won 7.


Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
The problem is that we are more likely to go 2 and 14 than 6 and 10.


I dunno Vers, I guess I'm blindly hopeful as usual.... I know you're down on the organization right now, but I think Williams alone would get us 2 or 3 more wins. Like I said, the rookie crop of 2016 should show some growth in year 2. Hopefully we nail the 2017 draft by getting impact players.
And as you might know, I'm totally on board with Garrett - I don't want anyone else at #1. How long have we been dreaming of a true difference maker at LB?


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If we draft Garrett I assume he will be playing DE.

Semantics.


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Isn't he basically an OLB?


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Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Isn't he basically an OLB?


I'm not too keen on A&Ms scheme, maybe they run more of a 3-4.

But if I was drafting Myles, which I would, it would be to put his hand on the ground and rush the passer.. All day, every day.


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Yeah that's what I thought he was known for. I just googled him and he is listed as a DE. Jesus, and I have read a lot about him and that never registered. Maybe I should keep my football evaluations to myself lol.


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I think the one perk to Hue running the offense is that we wont ever have to worry about an OC getting great, and then leaving us cold. If it's all Hue, then we'll never have that problem.


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My general thought is that, if you're a good OC, and get a HC job..

Why immediately stop doing what got you the job?


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Quote:
but I think Williams alone would get us 2 or 3 more wins.


Why?

Last year, I argued w/folks that Horton would not get us 2 or 3 more wins and that Hue wouldn't get us more than 3 or 4 wins.

How quickly people forget. We actually regressed from 7 wins to 3 wins to 1 win.

Changing coaches is so brilliant!

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The same coaches that won 7, won 3 the following year..

In their 2nd season, they won 2 more games than Hue & Co did with a stripped down rookie version of the team..

Yeah, we should of totally kept them..


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Yes, we should have.

You finally said something smart.

Btw That.............how you feeling about Shanny's route trees now? LMAO

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The only coach I miss was Shanahan. Pettine and especially O'Neil can kick rocks. They were terrible coaches who lost the locker room because they weren't consistent.


you had a good run Hank.
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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Yes, we should have.

You finally said something smart.

Btw That.............how you feeling about Shanny's route trees now? LMAO


Are you on the record as saying we should have kept Pettine and Farmer?


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
but I think Williams alone would get us 2 or 3 more wins.


Why?

Last year, I argued w/folks that Horton would not get us 2 or 3 more wins and that Hue wouldn't get us more than 3 or 4 wins.

How quickly people forget. We actually regressed from 7 wins to 3 wins to 1 win.

Changing coaches is so brilliant!





I know you will disagree, but the HC is the most important to keep in place. The others change on a regular basis.

Say Horton hadn't been fired. Say he got a HC gig. You don't think he would have tried to bring a few of his guys along? You don't think the new DC would try to bring some of his guys along?


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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On record?

If you cared about me being "on record," you and the other geniuses on this board wouldn't be trying to bad mouth constantly. In fact, you might start listening instead of babbling your nonsensical ideas constantly.

Here is what I am on record with: Changing coaches and FO personnel constantly has been the single biggest reason why the Browns suck year after year.

YTown explained it very well in the Rookie All Star thread.

Guys like you bashing me isn't going to change that fact.

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So you originally replied to me, basically calling me an idiot...

But I'm the one bashing you?

Cool story bro.


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Hey peen.........you still haven't apologized about the Vambo thing. I told you earlier........you wanna side w/Vambo.....we are done. I'm not kidding.

No one defended you more than me back in the day. You know that. Vambo misquoted me and was trying to start a fight. He bad-mouthed me because I mentioned my son was sick in a football thread. You know, real life misery isn't important when talking about the moves the Browns are making.

You can both get lost!!!

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Hey peen.........you still haven't apologized about the Vambo thing. I told you earlier........you wanna side w/Vambo.....we are done. I'm not kidding.

No one defended you more than me back in the day. You know that. Vambo misquoted me and was trying to start a fight. He bad-mouthed me because I mentioned my son was sick in a football thread. You know, real life misery isn't important when talking about the moves the Browns are making.

You can both get lost!!!


I have slept since then, so don't really remember exactly what it was that he said that made sense to me. I am sorry if what I was reading wasn't the fact, and took it as such. You set the record straight. It really wasn't taking sides as I saw it. It was simply making a comment based on what I was reading. I don't read every thread anymore. Especially the ones that stray off the topic. Back in the day most of the bickering was still football related and didn't usually get personal in nature. Somewhere along the line things have changed, so I just stay away from that stuff. Again, sorry if my comment hit a nerve and you took it as me taking a side. I didn't intend for that to happen. I wasn't taking a side. I think you know who's side I am on. I will say I was a bit saddened you so easily will ask me to get lost. But, that was yesterday. Many times I have said things in the heat of the moment that were a bit more blunt than I really feel. I hope my words here help change your mind.

I totally get the real life stuff. I do recall that and made it a point to say something about lines that shouldn't be crossed. No question he crossed the line on that one.

Calm down my friend. All's good. I've got your back more often than not.....even if we disagree on Ray, even though I do agree in your broad point that changing coaches brings in a wholenew set of problems. You might fix some, but many times change leads to unexpected consequences. Or rather, expected.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Peen I agree with you. I never want to ever insult or attack someone on a personal level. Even in real life heated arguments I try really hard to never do that. Nothing gets accomplished from it.

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Originally Posted By: candyman92
Peen I agree with you. I never want to ever insult or attack someone on a personal level. Even in real life heated arguments I try really hard to never do that. Nothing gets accomplished from it.


LOL. You made a post that was derogatory toward mentally disabled people in another thread some time ago. While not a direct post or insult toward a specific person, I took exception of that post since I have a daughter with down syndrome and let you know it. You never manned up with an apology in the thread or even a PM. While you owe me nothing, including an apology, I find your post above playing a saint to be a little disingenuous.

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