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last time i checked, murder is murder.

criminal activity is criminal activity.

Last edited by Swish; 01/10/17 09:34 PM.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
last time i checked, murder is murder.

criminal activity is criminal activity.


It is, no denying that. Not trying to excuse what some members of the family might do (I'm Italian). wink


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Wow.
You were one of the 10%.

Probably still are.

Look, I'll admit that I went farther than I usually do, but that's what happens when a person has one more beverage than he should, and bangs out a post while in a salty mood. I'm no MKL by a long shot, and I get hacked off from time to time, too- like anyone else. It's nice to know that you thought that highly of me at one time.

Couple of points you made, I'd like to address. It might provide some context to my original post.

Quote:
Yeah great, refugees are doing wonderfully in Toledo. I'm happy for ya! How are the SAME PEOPLE GROUP DOING WHERE THEY END UP IN EUROPE?

Not all that good over there is it? No.


No... it's not really very good in some of those places. Which is why I said that we're doing it the right way. We vet them for over 2 years, and limit the number we allow in. It's humane, yet prudent. That process is no little thing- criminal background checks, 2 years of regular interviews probing every detail of their lives.

We didn't just toss open the doors to our house and say "come one, come all"... we have a bouncer at the door. If we had thrown open our borders like Germany did, with no checks whatsoever, we'd probably be in the same boat as they. The difference in our process is why our two countries are in such different states right now.

Quote:
WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE TO ASK OTHERS TO PLAY THE ODDS JUST SO YOU CAN FEEL WARM AND FUZZY?


For me, it isn't just feeling warm and fuzzy. It's also following the example set by previous generations of Americans. All generations up to now. The minute we begin closing our borders to specific outsiders, that's the minute we become something other than America. Oh, we're the same place on the map, but we've become something else. Add to that, this idea: after the first time, it becomes easier and easier to add others to the list. Precedent has already been set, so what's one more?

Ted, I'm not ignoring the inherent risk behind what we've been doing, I'm really not. What I've experienced here shows me that we can be careful, prudent and smart in our immigration policy without slamming the door shut-no questions asked. There must be some middle ground between allowing a flood of unchecked people in, and saying no to everyone.

That 'middle ground' is what we already have here in the US.

One final point I'd like to make: If we examine immigration patterns since the country began, we'll see that they come in waves: by nationality, ethnicity or culture. And every group- EVERY group that has ever come here has faced the same resistance, suspicion and hostility. Italians are all mobsters. Irish need not apply. Japanese belong in camps with fences, so we can 'keep an eye on them.' Chinese. Viet Nam 'boat people.' Greeks. Eastern Europeans. They come in waves usually because of natural disaster (Irish potato famine), to flee a war-torn country, or to escape religious persecution. The only difference this time is that they're coming from a different place. They are the next wave- coming here for the same reasons everyone else has. Every one.

And look what we've been able to create with all these folks from all these places? The best, easiest and most visible example is the Summer Olympics. Opening ceremonies: USA is the most colorful, diverse nation representing. And we dominate. We crush it.

The thing that makes this country special above others is that those desperate enough to risk it all to make it here tend to give it their all once they get here. At least that's what I'm getting to see.

I get your point quite well. I just see it the opposite place.

I'm curious to know if you advocate a 'complete and total ban.' An absolute 'closed-door policy.' Something less than total? I really don't know where you are on the spectrum.


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Clem you were always above the fray. Your posts were always well written with messages everyone could respect, even if they disagreed.

Lately your posts have taken a turn to the dark side and I like it.
You are becoming one of us and your new look of being covered
in mud and leaves, smelling of stale beer and dung is becoming.

Welcome my friend! Allow me to show you a great spot I have found
with small rocks and juicy grubs beneath.

Life is good.

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Originally Posted By: jfanent
Originally Posted By: Swish
Come on, rocket. You know we're only allowed to post the bad about egufeess around here.

Posting the facts that show the majority of refugees who make here in America goes against everything a lot of people on this board stand for.


Even Trump himself is OK with refugees if they're properly vetted.


rofl

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Quote:
Wow.
You were one of the 10%.


I consider that an honor-when you're SOBER! rofl

Quote:
Probably still are.


I sure hope so.

Quote:
Look, I'll admit that I went farther than I usually do, but that's what happens when a person has one more beverage than he should,


I kinda thought so, actually thought about floating that thought.

Quote:
and bangs out a post while in a salty mood.


Hey, I do it sober. grin

Quote:
I'm no MKL by a long shot,


I've no doubt he'd say he wasn't who he was but by the Grace of God so...from what I've read of your wisdom I'd certainly point others to your writing as a good example of someone to follow.

Quote:
and I get hacked off from time to time, too- like anyone else.


Certainly understandable. I think what we have to do as Americans is fill in the blanks of what we know of our fellow citizens when responding to their posts. I think it will go a long way to civilizing the debate.

Quote:
It's nice to know that you thought that highly of me at one time.


I still do, I knew you'd cool down and we'd get back to a civil discourse. Much like I've done in the last 24 hours as well. Iron sharpens Iron as the book of Proverbs says.

Quote:
Couple of points you made, I'd like to address. It might provide some context to my original post.

Quote:
Yeah great, refugees are doing wonderfully in Toledo. I'm happy for ya! How are the SAME PEOPLE GROUP DOING WHERE THEY END UP IN EUROPE?

Not all that good over there is it? No.


No... it's not really very good in some of those places. Which is why I said that we're doing it the right way. We vet them for over 2 years, and limit the number we allow in. It's humane, yet prudent. That process is no little thing- criminal background checks, 2 years of regular interviews probing every detail of their lives.

We didn't just toss open the doors to our house and say "come one, come all"... we have a bouncer at the door. If we had thrown open our borders like Germany did, with no checks whatsoever, we'd probably be in the same boat as they. The difference in our process is why our two countries are in such different states right now.


I know, and like I said, those of us on this side of the argument are probably over reacting more than we'd like to admit. But as I also said, these people are patient with their plans, and cunning with their gaming of our rules.

Quote:
Quote:
WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE TO ASK OTHERS TO PLAY THE ODDS JUST SO YOU CAN FEEL WARM AND FUZZY?


For me, it isn't just feeling warm and fuzzy. It's also following the example set by previous generations of Americans. All generations up to now. The minute we begin closing our borders to specific outsiders, that's the minute we become something other than America. Oh, we're the same place on the map, but we've become something else. Add to that, this idea: after the first time, it becomes easier and easier to add others to the list. Precedent has already been set, so what's one more?


I don't know that we become something other than Americans, it was hard as hell to come here through Ellis Island. You couldn't be an anarchist, carrier of a contagious disease, likely to become a burden on the public dole...I'm worried about those that might be (or become) radicalized. Not all that worried about being contagious, we can cure a lot of stuff these days. But what are we going to do about getting these people jobs? We've got veterans living on the streets now, and we're giving these people free room and board already?

Quote:
Ted, I'm not ignoring the inherent risk behind what we've been doing, I'm really not. What I've experienced here shows me that we can be careful, prudent and smart in our immigration policy without slamming the door shut-no questions asked. There must be some middle ground between allowing a flood of unchecked people in, and saying no to everyone.

That 'middle ground' is what we already have here in the US.


We probably do, and this would fall under what I've said about how those of us on this side of the argument err on the side of over reacting, but it is kinda trepidatious walking through this part of history as opposed to being able to read about how it turned out.

Quote:
One final point I'd like to make: If we examine immigration patterns since the country began, we'll see that they come in waves: by nationality, ethnicity or culture. And every group- EVERY group that has ever come here has faced the same resistance, suspicion and hostility. ]Italians are all mobsters. Shhhh!!!!!! We are all mobsters! Irish need not apply. Japanese belong in camps with fences, so we can 'keep an eye on them.' Chinese. Viet Nam 'boat people.' Greeks. Eastern Europeans. They come in waves usually because of natural disaster (Irish potato famine), to flee a war-torn country, or to escape religious persecution. The only difference this time is that they're coming from a different place. They are the next wave- coming here for the same reasons everyone else has. Every one.


Quote:
And look what we've been able to create with all these folks from all these places? The best, easiest and most visible example is the Summer Olympics. Opening ceremonies: USA is the most colorful, diverse nation representing. And we dominate. We crush it.

The thing that makes this country special above others is that those desperate enough to risk it all to make it here tend to give it their all once they get here. At least that's what I'm getting to see.

I get your point quite well. I just see it the opposite place.


We do crush it, and I'll do my best to take this leap of faith with you, so long as you'll give me the understanding of seeing it from this side as well.

Quote:
I'm curious to know if you advocate a 'complete and total ban.' An absolute 'closed-door policy.' Something less than total? I really don't know where you are on the spectrum.


Total ban? No. Temporary ban, I wouldn't argue against it given the loophole that the San Bernadino couple was able to use to their advantage. Once we get those kinds of things (and we probably already have) straightened out, start it back up.

Cheers my friend!


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I'm really glad that we didn't find a shortcut to 'Meltdown Avenue', USA."

I'll get back to you when I can.


"too many notes, not enough music-"

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Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
I'm really glad that we didn't find a shortcut to 'Meltdown Avenue', USA."

I'll get back to you when I can.





Right on brother!


WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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Originally Posted By: Swish
Come on, rocket. You know we're only allowed to post the bad about egufeess around here.

Posting the facts that show the majority of refugees who make here in America goes against everything a lot of people on this board stand for.



Clem, this was the first post after the author of this thread. Maybe you should chide him instead of name calling 90% of this board. The fact is you went on a rant trashing a large majority of people when your buddy started the crap in this thread. Maybe you should just call out your 10% by name so we all know who you aren't talking about. You later blame it on drinking. Personally, I think that tells who you really are more then anything else.

Since I don't post much I will say that I am right of center veteran. However, I do not like Trump and I do not believe in banning anyone, or that we need some kind of extreme vetting beyond what we do now. I do not like how 40 posts, I also don't like perfect spiral. I don't bother responding to them because it would be a waste of time. Everyone knows their antics. You are supposedly different.

I no longer post much anymore but your crap got to me. Congratulations, you finally accomplished something.


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why? nothing i said was wrong.

look at the post in this thread. then look at all the other crap they say about refugees in all the other threads.

don't get mad at me for telling the truth.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
why? nothing i said was wrong.


*LOL* ... of course not .... all u gotta do is ask Swish and he'll tell you ... *L * ...

Quote:

look at the post in this thread. then look at all the other crap they say about refugees in all the other threads.

don't get mad at me for telling the truth.


U wanna talk about crap and the truth ... ok ,,..

Here's a FACT none of u want to talk about ...

U all talk about our tough vetting ... well i call BS ...

Clapper, Brennan, Comey ... u know .. the heads of OUR INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES have all said we CAN'T VETTE PEOPLE WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ... yet u guys constantly IGNORE THAT ...

Comey said it best ... and i'm para-phrasing ...

" u can vette them til the cows come home and it won't do any good because we know nothing about them ... vetting is only as good as the DATABASE of information your vetting from" ... and we have almost no DATA on these people .... NONE for most .. how do u vette someone whose HISTORY u know NOTHING ABOUT ... crap .. we don't even know who a good majority of them even are ...

Our vetting consists of asking them questions and varyifing it by asking questions of the other refugees with them ... that sounds like a GREAT SYSTEM ...

I keep talking about the DETAILS ... well here's another MAJOR DETAIL no one wants to talk about ...

Sorry guys .. the heads of our security agencies have said its IMPOSSIBLE TO VETTE THEM .. but no one wants to talk about that ... u just want to throw the 2 year number around .. and that's also BS ... but we won't go there ...




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Our vetting is fine.

Honestly, just say you don't want refugees here. Cause when you start making excuses, and those arguments start getting broken down, far too often you end up not having a viable reason.

And the proof? Most refugees have assimilated already here.

That's a fact. You know, I know it.

Our system with regards to refugees isn't a problem. The refugees are already here bro. And as Clem already pointed out.....very few issues.

You want to complain about vetting, then complain about Europes system. And I'll agree with you that it's a train wreck over there.

But it isn't over here. It's a success story over here. Because we're not Europe.

All well, I'm sure you'll find another angle to continue expressing your hatred of them.

But I'm done entertaining you on that. 40 will listen, though. Y'all think the same.

Last edited by Swish; 01/12/17 11:37 AM.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Hey I heard that!

You scare Vers, not me!

rofl kidding Vers.

Last edited by 40YEARSWAITING; 01/12/17 11:42 AM.
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I just want to clarify something P ... not u, but others think if they keep saying something over and over it makes it true ...

Well Trump does not want to ban all Muslims.. not even from the high threat regions of the world ..

Did he say that ... YES ... he's since clarified ...

He wants to make sure we can VETTE THEM PROPERLY before we let them in ... we simply can't do that right now ... we simply don't know who these people are ... we have very little to no backround info on them ...

Making sure we know who these people are before we let them in is common sense to me ..

Of course the jack ass said it in the most bravado way he could and now everyone thinks hes this racist pig ... all he wants to do is keep jihadists out of our country ... not sure whats wrong with that ...

Mr. Ted U said to Clem were prolly over-reacting ....

Lets ask the friends/families of the dead americans from San Bernadino, Orlando or any of the other jihadist attacks in this country if they think its an over-reaction ...




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You realize Orlando and San Bernadino weren't done by Syrian refugees?

That's like if I was to bring up the airport shooter, who's an American and ex military, as a way to push the border control agenda.

By the way, the Orlando shooter was born and raised here in America. And he wasn't Syrian.

And the shooter in San Bernardo was also American born. Pakistani heritage.

It's absolutely pathetic that you try to push the facts and truth rhetoric when you can't even get your information together.

But as I said before, not surprising as you have no credibility.

It's cool though. You continue spreading lies and misinformation, and I'll continue correcting you.

Absolutely disgusting that you tried to compare situations that aren't even the same. You're entire argument is based off of false correlations and hatred. No wonder I dislike you so much.

Last edited by Swish; 01/12/17 11:53 AM.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
Our vetting is fine.


The heads of the NiA, CIA and FBI all disagree with u ... but who are they compared to the GREAT SWISH ... *LOL* ....

Quote:
Honestly, just say you don't want refugees here.


*L* ... what .. am i hiding that ... *LOL*_ .... OK ... u win ..

I DON'T WANT THE REFUGESS HERE ...

Is that good enough now .. If u were a little foggy on that before ... maybe, just maybe u oughta put the bong down ...

Quote:
You want to complain about vetting, then complain about Europes system. And I'll agree with you that it's a train wreck over there.


Europe has no system ... so i guess us asking them questions ios better than that ... WOW ... SOME ACCOMPLISHMENT THAT IS ... *LOL* ...

U really want to bring Europe into this convo ... WOW ... u may wanna re-think that one ...

Quote:
But it isn't over here. It's a success story over here. Because we're not Europe.


So were a success story because our body count isn't as high as Euorpes? .. OK .. let me go post that on facebook for the friends/families of the dead Americans to see ... i'm sure that will make them feel better ... rolleyes

Quote:
All well, I'm sure you'll find another angle to continue expressing your hatred of them.


My hatred of them? .. now you've gone a wee bit to far stoner ... so now i will ...actually i'll take the high road and just ignore it ...




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Originally Posted By: Swish
You realize Orlando and San Bernadino weren't done by Syrian refugees?


Ya ... I realize that ... thanks ...

U do realize this isn't just about Syrian refugees ... don't u? ..

U do realize the entire scope of the problem here ... don't u? ..

The 2nd generation refugee that killed 59 in Orlando doesn't provoke any thought in your weed filled brain? ...

Quote:

By the way, the Orlando shooter was born and raised here in America. And he wasn't Syrian.

And the shooter in San Bernardo was also American born. Pakistani heritage.

It's absolutely pathetic that you try to push the facts and truth rhetoric when you can't even get your information together.


Ummm .. i didn't know this was just about the syrian refugees or 1st generation refugees ...

Sorry i thought it was about MUSLIM REFUGEES and not just syrian refugees ... changing the field of play for your convienance ... there's a real shocker ... *L* ...

As usual u don't dissapoint ... while your scolding me (DEFLECTING) about not knowing my facts about the shooters heritage ... u leave 1/3RD OF the shooters out .... classic ... leaving out all info not pimping the agenda as opposed to telling all the facts ... like i said .. u never disappoint ... *L* ...




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If you knew anything about ISIL or anything in the middle East, you would understand that Dabiq literally recruits 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants by telling them that the policies you advocate is a war against Islam and they should attack the Western world.

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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
If you knew anything about ISIL or anything in the middle East, you would understand that Dabiq literally recruits 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants by telling them that the policies you advocate is a war against Islam and they should attack the Western world.


*L* ... your as informative as your hero ...

I all ready knew that ... but thanks anyhow ...

*LOL* ...




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lol let me know when you stop getting your ideas from Breitbart and Infowars

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You spelled ISIS wrong!

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My bad Diam.

I could've swore the thread title says Syrian refugees.

You're clearly in the wrong thread.

Lemme check. Yep, says Syrian refugees. Time to get your eyes checked. I here that LensCrafters offer a discount on a vision check if you buy some frames.

Last edited by Swish; 01/12/17 01:26 PM.

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Especially if you are over 80.

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I started this topic to talk about the success stories of Syrian refugees in Toledo, Ohio.

40 brought the religion angle into it, and you're playing into it.

Nice job exposing yourself as a xenophobic dude afraid of "the other".

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But I already apologized for misreading the Title.
I only got fired up by reading the second post in that thread which was inflammatory.

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Inflammatory, and yet still true.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Oh, was that you that posted it? angel

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You didn't see the other guy crying about that post, as well?

Dudes come to EE just to complain about me, then disappear. 2nd time already this year. Must be a New Years resolution.


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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
You spelled ISIS wrong!
You spelled Daesh wrong rolleyes

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
I started this topic to talk about the success stories of Syrian refugees in Toledo, Ohio.

40 brought the religion angle into it, and you're playing into it.

Nice job exposing yourself as a xenophobic dude afraid of "the other".


No problem ....

Thanks for exposing yourself as a dude that could care less about AMERICANS!!!

Two can play at that BS game ...




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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
I started this topic to talk about the success stories of Syrian refugees in Toledo, Ohio.

40 brought the religion angle into it, and you're playing into it.

Nice job exposing yourself as a xenophobic dude afraid of "the other".


Thanks for exposing yourself as a dude that could care less about AMERICANS!!!


Says the guy all on his knees for Russia.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
Come on, rocket. You know we're only allowed to post the bad about egufeess around here.

Posting the facts that show the majority of refugees who make here in America goes against everything a lot of people on this board stand for.


YO ROCKET ....

There's the first reply ...

I was blown away with the SUCESS STORIES there ... WOW .... thanks for sharing Swish ... your the best ... i'm soooo inspired now ... rolleyes ...

So much for your "houlier than thou BS Rocket" ...

Hey Swish

MAYBE U SHOULD HAVE READ THE THREAD TITLE BEFORE MAKING YOUR FIORST POST ....

Once again ... scolding me for doing nothing more than FOLLOWING YOUR LEAD!!!!!!

Like i said ... u never fail to dissapoint ....

*LOL* ...




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Not only did you fail to say anything important, you managed to misspell a ton of words.

Here's a pro tip: make sure you breathe before posting. Holding your breath and turning red in the face won't do you any good. I know due to your age, your blood pressure might be high. You need to take it easy.

You can start by posting actual facts about Syrian refugees here in America instead of mentioning American citizens who were involved in terrorist attacks.


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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Quote:
Last year, NPR's Ari Shapiro visited Toledo, Ohio, to talk to refugees settling there from Syria's civil war. Recently, he returned to Toledo to check in on the community.

Mohammed Al Refaai is a 23-year-old butcher who fled Syria. He lives in Toledo, Ohio, with three other guys, who are also in their 20s, who decided they wouldn't mind having a refugee for a roommate.

In the year and a half since he moved in, he has learned English from the Americans including the lyrics to some Top 40 hits. In return, he taught them some of his favorite Arabic pop tunes.

They generally avoid talking about more difficult things. But his roommates — Doug Walton, Andrew Trumbull and Johnny Zellers — made an exception during our recent visit to Toledo. While Refaai was at work, they talked about politics and whether he will ever be reunited with his family. "Moh," as they call him, won't really talk about these things, Walton says.

"This is by far the most depth we've ever gone into it, and if Moh was here, we probably wouldn't, because he doesn't like the topic," Walton says.

Refaai's story is atypical. He was the only one of his family allowed into the United States as a refugee. His siblings and parents are still in Jordan, waiting for approvals. They've been there since the family fled Syria in 2011. Refaai is now trying to get a Green Card so if they can't come to the U.S., he can at least go visit them.

The recent presidential election hit especially — and literally — close to home, Zellers says.

"We actually got a flier from Trump, and it had ... three big issues," he says. "The third one was 'Stop the influx of dangerous refugees from Syria' — as ... the biggest bullet point. I was like, 'No, we want more of 'em. ... We have one, I have one in my house right now. ... I can go say hi to him!' "

The guys in this house lean conservative. They all take their Christian faith seriously. None of them voted for Trump; it was a mix of Clinton and third-party votes. They didn't even know who voted for whom until we all started talking about it.

"It is weird to have a vote in a situation that felt like we were voting for people who were helpless. Usually we vote on jobs or whatever, and so for me, I'm like, that's not a big deal. I find a job. I'll make things work, whoever gets elected — they're not going to change things that drastically," Trumbull says.

The guys don't own a TV, so on election night, they all went into Walton's room and huddled around their phones with Refaai to watch the results come in.

"So we were all kind of together just like kind of hugging him and just kind of watching it all go down," Walton says.

"He definitely kind of got sad a little bit just thinking of like, OK, maybe his family may not be able to like ever come here," Zellers says. "That's like the biggest hope that he's had like this past year. ... Now Trump elected it's like, oh, those chances go down like a lot."

An "unusual" situation

Refaii is a butcher at a new Middle Eastern supermarket and restaurant in Toledo.

When we met him a little over a year ago, he barely spoke any English. He had learned the terms that a butcher uses every day — chicken legs, chicken breast, steak, lamb — and that was about it. Today he looks confident. He doesn't use an interpreter when he talks to us.

He video chats with his family in Jordan about once a week. He shows them the snow on the ground in Ohio, and they tell him how proud they are that he's learning English and working.

"I like it they come here, but I don't know how. I need they be safe and close to me, my family, but I can't do anything," he says. "I feel bad for they not with me, but I can't do anything for help him."

We asked the State Department about Refaai's situation. Just like a year ago, they told us they don't comment on specific cases. But veterans of refugee work say his situation is not normal.

"This situation you've described is very unusual," says Eric Schwartz, who ran the State Department's refugee resettlement program earlier in the Obama administration. He's now a dean at the University of Minnesota's Humphrey School of Public Affairs. He says once you're over 21 like Refaai, your case is considered on its own. But even then, grown children are rarely separated from their parents and siblings.

"And it would be very unusual for them not to be departing and coming to the United States together," he says.

It might have just been an oversight. Schwartz says an immigration lawyer might be able to sort out what happened — but Refaai and his family don't have one.

"This is a program that involves so many tens of thousands of individuals that sometimes mistakes or problems do arise, and the way they get fixed is somebody asks about them and somebody presses them," he says.

Refaai fears that his window is closing as the days tick down to Trump's inauguration. The office that issues Green Cards has told him to stop calling, and that has changed the way the other guys in this house think about their future.

"Before it's just like 'Oh, Moh is here, his family will come and then I'm like, well, I'll move on with our lives — we'll all move away or get different jobs or, I don't know, and then Moh will have his family. But now it's like his family may never come," Zellers says.

Walton says Refaai won't talk about that.

"He doesn't even want to acknowledge that could happen because thinking about this family being broken up, that like leaves him lost in a sea in a way," Walton says. "But we don't know what's going to happen. So I don't know what's going to be asked of me as his brother, but I guess I'm just more aware that he may have more need for support than even he does now."


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Quote:
Last year, NPR's Ari Shapiro visited Toledo, Ohio, to talk to refugees settling there from Syria's civil war. Recently, he returned to Toledo to check in on the community.

When we first met Omar Al-Awad and his family in the fall of 2015, they were among the newest refugee families from Syria settling in to life in Toledo, Ohio.

Back then, Awad was attending his first English class at a local church and couldn't say much more than his name. Today he's able to haltingly conduct a basic conversation in English.

He and his wife, Hiyam, also had a fourth baby — a boy, Salman, who just turned 1 and is a full-fledged American citizen. The other kids — Taiba, 5, Abdul-Jabar, 7, and Hammam, 10 — are now practically fluent in English.

But Hiyam says overall, this first year in the U.S. was tough.

"We came to a country that is not our country, and everything changed on us: the system, the people the area, the city," she says in Arabic.

Though her husband is trained as a carpenter, for now he is working on a hospital cleaning crew. He says he is happy to be working. But what gives him the most pride is watching his kids flourish in school. Two of his children were just named student of the month. He was so proud he went out and bought them new toys.

Awad has come a long way, too. No longer the newest refugee, he now helps the new ones.

"I go with them to pay bills. There are days I take them to the doctor, bring them stuff from the store," he says in Arabic.

The U.S. never took in a lot of refugees from Syria. With millions of people displaced, the U.S. admitted only 12,000 or so over the past five years. Some cities in Europe took in twice that many in a given week.

But President-elect Donald Trump may stop admitting Syrian refugees altogether, fearing that they could be dangerous.

"We are going to stop the tens of thousands of people coming in from Syria. We have no idea who they are, where they come from. There's no documentation. There's no paperwork," Trump said in September.

Actually, there's a lot of documentation and paperwork. The screening process often takes as long as two years. There are medical tests, background checks and round after round of interviews.

Awad feels lucky to have made it to the U.S. while the door was still open a crack.

"Anyone that is able to get out of these countries — whether it's Jordan, Lebanon or Turkey — of course the situation is better here than to be there," he says.

Those are countries where millions of Syrians sit in refugee camps, waiting to see what comes next. Awad's family spent two years at a refugee camp in Jordan before coming to Toledo.

"Some scary things"

One organization in Toledo works to settle new refugees who arrive here. They help people find housing, furniture and jobs. There's even a new program offering counseling for people who have experienced torture. The group is called US Together.

Recently, at an orientation organized by US Together, a pastor named Luke Lindon from a nearby church spoke to new arrivals from Syria.

"There are some people that you may have heard that may not feel as welcoming. They might be saying some scary things," he says.

Lindon is tall and gentle, with a shaved head. He sprinkles his conversation with "dude" and "blessings." He wants the new refugees not to feel afraid of differences.

"It scares our people here and it scares you all coming in," he tells them. "But I'm here to say that nothing defeats fear like a face."

When he finishes talking to the group, we sit down with him in an office.

"My own grandfather is a Slovakian immigrant who worked in the brickyards, and he recalled a time before World War II that he was not considered white," Lindon says. "He wasn't considered part of the populace. He was a problem. And so knowing that, we want to make sure that history doesn't repeat."

He says it's important to be truthful in talking to refugees about the climate surrounding immigration in the U.S.

"It's a reality. We've got to name the reality. We have to be truthful," he says. "But we also need to reach into this small group and welcome them as well as welcome others who were afraid of the conversation."

Toledo has seen generations of immigrants, including decades of Middle Eastern immigration. So when we went from one blue-collar bar to another, the openness to refugees was striking.

One bartender told us as long as the Statue of Liberty is still standing, refugees should be welcome in Toledo. Others had harsh things to say off the record.

One woman who wouldn't speak on tape said, "They've got their own country; they should stay there."

Then we met Jon Johnstone, who was in the Navy.

He's suspicious of people who continue to wear headscarves and speak in Arabic.

"If you want to come here and turn the United States into Syria, I'm against that. If you want to come here and speak English, you want to assimilate, you want to have a pizza, you want to eat a chicken wing, I'm all for it," he says.

Corine Dehabey has heard it all. Her family is Syrian-American, her father was a U.S. fighter pilot, and she runs US Together. She stays focused on the positive. Last year more Syrian refugees arrived than she ever expected. She says the group had budgeted for 75; it ended up helping to settle 131 from October 2015 through November 2016.

She says those families still need help. Their needs keep her busy enough that she doesn't dwell on what will happen after Trump's inauguration.

She says maybe his speeches about cutting off refugees were just political talk, empty promises.

If the refugees do stop coming, then Toledo's long history of integrating generations of people from other countries may have a pause.


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I sure wish I knew more about this, can anyone enlighten me?

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So... just yesterday, this happened:

Someone spraypainted: "'F' [swastika] Arabs" on the garage door of a Toledo citizen's home. (They live in an upscale subdivision of our town.)

Within a couple hours of this harrowing event, someone else brought their own spraycan... and blasted a red heart over the swastika... while also spraying "We Love" over the "f" word.

'Local headlines,' yo.

On Saturday, there will be a (fb-based) crowd-sourced rally of local artists, musicians, civil rights advocates, and rank-and-file everyday citizens who will convene at this family's address, to show their support for one of their own.

And you can bet your last dollar that Clem will be among those who show (TF) up.

That's how much American means to me/us.

_________


As much as I've touted my town as a template for 'the way we Americans do it right,' there will always some who bring The Shadow to what we've been trying to do.

Those people will find no place of comfort or acceptance in My Town.

There are already at least 200 Toledoans who have promised to be a part of this 'peaceful demonstration' this weekend... and they've done it without affiliation to any recognized political party.

We'll sing (and play) Beethoven's/Schiller's "Ode To Joy," as we stand in front of this fellow citizens' home.

You'd better bet that I'll be there.

________________

Toledo don't play its game weak.
We represent TF outta what we believe in.

We don't just 'talk' it..... we actually LIVE America's ideals.

We ACT.... when America needs its citizens to do what's right.

My Town has it's [crap] together.



You (and your town's) mileage may differ.

.02,
Clemzilla.



"too many notes, not enough music-"

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Very admirable. Taking a stand for what you believe in is the American way.

Good luck with the parade.

A few years back there were threats against a Mosque in our area so some of the guys from my church got together and stood in front of the Mosque during services, no signs no nothing, just watched over them after telling them what they were about. They even made the News.

About a year later, a different Mosque was busted for supporting violence and supporting ISIS.

Kinda like the guys from your town painting a Swastika while others parade in support of the community.

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j/c

So today, this happened:

Quote:
SYLVANIA, OHIO (WTVG) - From hateful graffiti to unity; an Arab American family targeted because of their ethnicity got a lot of support today. The public joined members of the Toledo Symphony to spread a message of peace.
It was a last minute effort by a handful of people that snowballed in big turnout. Upwards of 200 people showed up.


And leading the way were some musicians from the Toledo Symphony who took it upon themselves to spread a message of peace through music.

They all stood in solidarity with the Eltatawy family at their Sylvania Township home.

Everyone sang together and each took turns writing positive messages on what was a garage door smeared with hate.

"I think this is what Toledo is. It's a compassionate community and we support each other and we are all Americans," said Sarah Jobin, a resident who organized this event.

"I couldn't sleep that night, couldn't live with the fact that you know somewhere 10 minutes away from me, there's a family that for no reason at all, someone came up to express their hate to them," stated Sherry Roush, a Toledo Resident.

On Tuesday, someone spray painted an anti-Arab message with a swastika.
Malak Ayache lives at the home and later painted over the racist words to create a "Toledo loves Arabs" message.

"Toledo's really diverse and it was kind of sad this even happened in the first place but we decided to turn something negative into positive and there it is," said Malak Ayache, pointing towards the garage door.

The outpouring of support by the community is something this family didn't expect to see.

"It's just an overwhelming warm feeling inside, that I don't know how to describe it. Words can't describe how amazing it is,” said Mustafa Eltatawy. "I'd just like to thank everybody for all the support they've given me and my family."

On Monday, Quality Overhead Doors will be replacing that garage door free of charge.

Right now the family is looking into preserving the door in remembrance of the hate and the love that prevailed.

Councilman Peter Uvjagi agrees.

"To turn this around into a message of love is something that is very important for all of us to understand," said Uvjagi. "I think it's an important message and it's a message that we need to both preserve and figure out some way to let more people see it and understand it."

Police are investigating the hateful graffiti as an act of ethnic intimidation. No word yet on any suspects.



The local news' web page featuring the story can be found here. If you go there, you can watch the embedded video. There, you can see the garage door I referenced in my first thread.

____________

My Dawgs:

Today, a very cool thing happened. People from every corner of My Town came together to lift a family up.... and to smack a social miscreant down.


The person you know here at DT'ers was born and raised to be this kind of American citizen. I was raised to support causes such as these. My family (teachers, scientists, mathematicians, artists, superior court justices, and deep-thinkers on both sides) raised us to involve ourselves in efforts such as this. It's what makes me the person I am. And... it's why I post as I do, in these threads.

Today, My Town said: "We don't accept this [****] in our town. We will oppose it the very second it raises its head. We will shout it down, expose it to everyone... and chase it from Our Town.

And My Music/Arts Posse made it happen.

An American family was psychologically assaulted and bullied... and An American Town rallied to their defense. My American Town.


In My Town... America's People do it right.
They understand that 'community' lies at the heart of America's soul and strength...

...and we make things happen in our house.

My Town is a living example of the U.S. at its best.


Many thanks to Rocket- for linking us all to a story I've been trying to tell for quite awhile. You lived with us for awhile. You know what we're made of.

http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Commun...-410745215.html


"too many notes, not enough music-"

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I hope you played your bow for this occasion.

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I left my rig at home... too cold outside.


"too many notes, not enough music-"

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