DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft What are our biggest needs from the draft? minus QB.

Luck is living proof that it doesn't matter how good you are, if your team is garbage you're not going to do well. The Browns have the worst roster in the entire NFL.

Just thinking out loud.

I disagree. I don't see another player who can get 10+ sacks a year in this draft from the 3 technique other then Allen. Maybe Montravius Adams, Brantley, or Watkins from Clemson could get you 5-6 a year but I don't see them getting 10. I do see some ends who could be 10+ sack type guys, I.E. McDowell, Thomas, Barnett, Harris, Basham, Willis, Hendrickson, Kpassagnon, to name a few. Now I'm not saying any of these guys will be sure things but they have potential to be that type of guy. And there are a handful of guys after that who could get you 5-6 sacks a year as situational pass rushers.

Andrew Luck is has better then average talent, but(And I know I'm gonna catch a bunch of flack for this) Luck is by far the most overated QB in the league. He still makes bad decisions and forces things far to much for how long he's been playing. Didn't Hasselback come in for him a couple of years ago when he got hurt and wasn't playing all that well and play better then he had?

You draft according to BPA. Garrett is BPA at #1.

Before I catch too much flack let me just say I don't think the guy is horrible just think he's closer to the middle of the pack then top 5. I'd take him here in a heartbeat.

Please rephrase.

I agree, you do draft BPA, I'm just not sure Garrett is BPA. Like I said in an early post from tape I've watched Garrett can be blocked by one guy at times, I don't see that from Allen. From an athletic standpoint Garrett is the better at his position, I said he's got everything you want from an edge guy. From a consistency standpoint I see Allen as the more consistent player. I also said I could be happy with either player.

Just don't believe it's so cut and dried that Garrett is the best player in this draft.JMO.

I said Luck is overrated in a previous post.

Fair enough. We just disagree on our evaluations of Garret. IMO he's a generational type player that we may never get the chance to draft again as a pass rusher.

Each draft has to be taken in a vacuum but not each prospects relation to the rest of the draft class. How you draft in when there are 6 1st round edge rushers is different from how you draft if there are 2.

Then you agree? You are making my point.

I agree. No one knows how any prospect will turn out. We only know what we can evaluate.

Re-visit passing on AJ Green to get Greg Little.

I have Garrett rated a bit higher than Allen, but it's close. If the Browns did draft Allen over Garrett, I wouldn't lose a ton of sleep over it.

As far as depth, I see this draft having a ton of depth at both edge and 3T so for me that's a wash.

For me it's BPA and that's Garrett and also if they were both exactly equal, I would value the edge rusher over the 3T.

Either way we go, the Browns are in a good spot to get both a great edge and a great 3T if they don't overthink things too much.

Who are the 3-tech prospects after Allen? I know by my count there both fewer and less quality prospects for 3-tech then Edge.

Brantley, McDowell...

I like mcdowell as a LE personally. Could have Justin tuck type impact

I have seen McDowell listed as a DT, but he seems a bit light at 276 lbs...

He played all over their front and he has the build to add as much weight as he wants. I could see him really thriving as a LE somewhere. He can always slide in on rush downs

Pass rusher....

Myles Garrett reminds me alot of Simeon Rice...Allen reminds me alot like Suh (so disruptive inside) minus the headcase lol

Simeon rice. Man I forgot all about that guy

Allen, McDowell, Caleb Brantley, Jaleel Johnson, Chris Wormley, Jarron Jones, and Charles Walker all in the first few rounds of the draft.

Brantley was not a guy I was tuned into early because I was looking more at 3-4 players, but I think he is perfect for the 3T. Watch some tape on him and see if you don't agree.

You could really pick any position and it would be a need.

You need defense, literally everywhere. You need someone who can scare QB's and guys in the secondary who can change the game.

You need OL depth, you may need another WR if Pryor leaves. You could use another tight end.

The only spot I feel somewhat comfy at is RB, and that's a position you should probably never feel too comfortable at.

Maybe you don't. That's cool. You look all around and Garrett is the #1 prospect nearly everywhere. I am not saying they know more than you, but they might since many of them get paid to scout and rank players.

Even with the #1 pick you are rolling the dice much as it is when drafting later.

In the later rounds you hope you draft a 5th rounder who plays like a 1st or 2nd rounder. With 1st and 2nd rounders, you hope you don't get a guy who plays like a 5th or 6th rounder.

McDowell, Wormley and Jaron Jones don't fit the profile of a 3-tech to me. Walker....has issues and is a late round guy to me.

Even if you add guys like Watkins, Monty Adams and Dalvin Tomlinson to Brantley that only makes 2 guys with 2nd round grades.

Compare that to edge rusher: Derek Barnett (who is considered a close 1a to Garrett), Taco, Tim Williams, Takk with 1st round grades then Charles Harris and Carl Lawson. 2nd round grades DeMarcus Walker and Terrell Basham, Hassan Riddick and Ryan Anderson

ed: I understand what you are saying, and that I don't disagree. Are you, by your post above, suggesting that we go with Allen at #1, then take an edge rusher/DE at #12?

I'm loving the debate over this. I've got Garrett and Allen as 1 and 1A. Think we'll be fine with either one.

And yes I'm against the grain on this one by slightly favoring Allen, I understand what that means and I'll own it. I don't follow what the experts always say, I go by what I see on tape. I'm not always right, I admit that, but my percentages haven't been to bad.

Yeah, we see some guys differently and that probably leads to how we feel about who should be drafted #1.

I see McDowell as close to Allen as Barnett is to Garrett. I think Wormley is probably a better 5T than a 3T but I think he'd be a fine 3T. I think Walker is undervalued because he got hurt so early in the season but he played awesome against OSU and had 6 sacks in 2015. He will be gone by the end of the 3rd round.

For the sake of keeping my opinion of the prospects out of it I'm using nfldraftscout rankings. And the consensus is this draft is very deep at edge rusher at the rankings/grades bear this out.

I don't disagree that McDowell is close to Allen as prospect I just don't think he is a 3-tech. Garrett and Barnett play the same position and their production over the course of their careers is very close.

Even if you included Wormley and McDowell as 3-techs the edge rushers are still almost double depth.

The OSU kid didn't just get hurt w/ concussion he quit the team. But even if you include him being a 3 rounder as an example of depth I could also add another chunk of 3rd round edge rushers because that list from my previos post was only 1st and 2nd round edge rushers.

To play Devils advocate if you want to go by the thought process of some right now of maximizing draft value would it not be to trade down and get arguably the only FS in the class? With 3T and edge following respectively.

McDowell is long and lean and his short area quickness probably isn't what you look for in a 3 technique. I see him as LDE lining up on the QBs vision side.

Here's bleacher report explaining the diferent alignments in the 4-3

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1999358-nfl-101-the-basics-of-the-4-3-defensive-front

—"3-Technique" defensive tackle

Speed/quickness up the field with the ability to use technique/power at the point of attack to hold the gap. Think of the Bucs’ Gerald McCoy and the Bengals' Geno Atkins or look to this year’s draft class with Pittsburgh’s Aaron Donald and Florida State’s Timmy Jernigan.

Aaron Donald was 285 lbs and McDowell is 280 and has a bigger frame to put on 10 more lbs pretty easy.

Malik has been playing the 3T and even a little 1T in college so this isn't anything new for him.

FS is definitely thinner, but perhaps we'll address that at #12 or in FA.

I really like Baker (Wash.) at FS. I also think King (Iowa) will eventually make a great FS if he doesn't stick at CB. Hopefully one can be available at 52 if we haven't picked up Hooker or Adams. I think potentially Adams and either one of Powell / Reynolds or Micah Hyde would also be a huge upgrade.

Yes, but Donald is only 6' carrying 285 with superior quickness, Mcdowell is (listed) 6'6" and isn't nearly as quick. They played him all over the place at Mich. State, 1, 3, 5, RDE, LDE, and he performed decent at all of them. I never said he can't play 3 tech. just don't see him as an ideal 3 tech. I see him as a perfect LDE. That's what his measurables say to me. But it's a good debate.