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I exclusively IWB appendix carry. I have a micro carry .380 (5.6 length, 7+1, 13.4 oz unloaded).

I tried carrying it in my jacket pocket a couple of times, but I didn't trust how it sat or pointed. I also didn't feel comfortable it being there without a holster as well. There's no trigger guard. Yes, I have a safety, but if it's bopping around in my jacket, maybe the safety comes off. I think any CCW should be holstered.

It also feels more secure where IWB, for me at least. Nobody can see it and it's always on me. A gun in a jacket can be taken off and be on the back of a chair or might fall out while you're sitting down.

I've used a Mika and a DeSantis Nemesis for the J-frame. Both work well. If anything I'd say the round cut of the Mika lends itself better to jeans pockets while the Nemesis's larger/squarer cut is better for khakis/cargo shorts as it fills out a larger pocket better. That said, I think a gun like that is a bit too big for most jeans pockets. It can be done in some jeans with large pockets and a large pocket opening. Relaxed fit is helpful. The combination of the holster and rounded shape of a revolver makes it look nothing like a gun in the pocket. It's more like a big lump and even that tends to disappear in cargo shorts and such.

Not a problem with the lightweight LCR as a revolver is already safe and the light weight does not pull one side of the coat down.

A zippered pocket is a must tho.

The rest of the year it goes in my pants pocket.

I feel carrying in your back waste band or pocket is an invite for someone to grab it. Side pocket or front waste band carry is safer.
Shoulder carry requires keeping your coat zipped so as not to show when you bend or reach. Looking anything other than normal can be a tip off to others that you are carrying.

I've done front and back pocket carry. I actually prefer back pocket carry but it's more restrictive on the size of the pistol. A snubbie is completely out of the question; it's too long and too wide at the cylinder.

With one of the small .380s (think Ruger LCP and Kahr P380/CW380), the gun is deep enough in the back pocket of a typical pair of men's jeans that the pocket closes up on top of it. You wouldn't be able to see it even if you were standing directly behind the person wearing it.

Contrast that with the larger PM9 in this video (which also has some comparisons with the P380) and you can see that the PM9 is too big for typical jeans back pockets. You'd need something like carpenter pants with a larger back pocket or cover garment or something (which kind of defeats the purpose of pocket carry, in my opinion.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MApylOHSVaE

Well at least 6ft-5 TTTdawg took my advice on pants carry...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyFE4yT51Jc

Video was taken at the last Dawgtalkers meetup

Sure did.

Warmer months, it's great for carry.

It's used every single night, also.

jc

June 2016: http://nbc4i.com/2016/06/15/record-number-of-ohioans-have-concealed-carry-gun-permits/



December 2016: https://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/12/19/ohio-concealed-carry-permit-numbers-hit-all-time-record/



Given these trends, there are probably more than 600,000 active Ohio-issued concealed carry permits right now (slightly more than 5% of the total population.) I did not realize there were that many.

Probably because they aren't 600,000 nut jobs itching to blow someone away as has been suggested?

I remember the campaign against concealed carry in Ohio when it was first proposed. The anti's were saying that if passed we will have a wild west environment where vigilantism, road rage and domestic violence shootings will be out of control.

That has turned out to be a non-issue. I'm sure you know this but it may be insightful for others (sources given in the link): http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/

I can only speak for Illinois, but they do a deep background before approval. My application took almost 3 months for approval. It makes sense that most people with a CCL aren't trouble makers. Heck, my CC instructor, an active cop in Chicago, said he and the other cops feel better at a traffic stop when the driver has a CCL. Yes, there's probably a gun in the car, but the person has been vetted out within the process (and took 16 hours of instruction too).

That's similar enough to Ohio although I believe instruction time here is 8 hours, formerly 12 hours. Don't quote me on that though. There's also a background check involved and Cuyahoga County (Cleveland area) is notorious for taking many weeks but some of the more rural counties have a fast turnaround.

In most states, it is a requirement to disclose that you are carrying a firearm up front at a traffic stop. In Ohio, the CCW license is linked to the owner's vehicle, so I think it's a good idea to tell an officer you have a permit even if you are not carrying, and to explain this dynamic to anybody else who happens to drive that vehicle.

During our training, the guy said the cop knows you have a CCL right away and probably assumes you're carrying. If he/she asks, we answer. We don't have to disclose anything up front.

Not sure if the law has changed, but i think it's a felony
If you don't declare you're carrying when pulled over.

Bah! Just get out the car and take off running!

Good timing; I take my CCW class tomorrow.
Likely not going to be carrying for a bit, however, as my only handgun is a full-size 1911, but it'll be good to have the class done and be ready.

I don't know if it is a felony, but I recall my instructor being very adamant about declaring if you are carrying. As was mentioned, the cop knows if you have a CCL. I'm not sure it is a law to declare, but my instructor made it seem as if it was a very good idea to tell the cop.

It's a legal requirement to inform the officer you're carrying, but a brief search couldn't turn up the penalty for not doing so.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126

Here in NC it's just an infraction for failing to declare (on par with a running a red light as oppose to a misdemeanor or felony where you would be arrested for it.)

Your CCL (Or here a CCW) IS attached to your driver's license so if you have a valid one it will come up. Thing is, normally running a license plate is separate from running a driver's license. Typically I'll have only run the tag before pulling someone over because a) I hate using my computer and driving at the same time and b) the registered owner isn't always the one driving anyway.

Awhile back when discussing the law about declaring he said he didn't think that should be anyone's business. I told him it wasn't about being nosey. I said it was about safety for not only me, but the motorist. If you reach back for your wallet and all of a sudden the butt of a pistol is on your same hip, right where your hand is going, or if you open the center console to get your wallet an there's the butt of a gun right next to it, you've now just forced me in to a position to have to figure out in a split second if your actually reaching for the gun instead of your wallet.

That fact pattern alone doesn't necessarily justify me shooting you, but the Courts will side with me everyday of the week and twice on Tuesday when I draw down and you're staring down the barrel of my .45 until I do figure it out.

Having said all that, I've never had a bad encounter with someone I pulled over and was legally CCW. Polite, respectful, no attitude. Contrary to leftist propaganda, these people actually do take owning and carrying a firearm seriously.

Long ago I switched from carrying my wallet on my right side to carrying it on the left to avoid this situation. Even after declaring I have a firearm, I never liked the idea of reaching for my wallet in the same vicinity as my gun. It's probably best to keep those two separate, as much as practical anyway.

In 2007 in Ohio you could get your CCW license in any neighboring county that the county you live in borders. I believe that is still true. In 2007 I applied to the county I live in, Geauga county, and received my license in 2 days. Some people from the class I took who lived in Cuyahoga county applied for their permit in Cuyahoga County. They received their permit on the 29th or 30th day.

As far as disclosure, there was a time that I was a passenger and my wife was driving and she was pulled over in Boston Heights/Rt 8. I wasn't carrying at the time but to be safe I did notify the LE that I had my CCW but was not carrying. He was real good with that.

I came across an interesting product called MagGuts. http://magguts.com/

Basically they make different internals for magazines that allow you to squeeze one extra round into some of the smaller .380 and 9mm pistols without increasing the length of the magazine. They do this by swapping out the stock spring and follower with their own patented dual spring and follower which takes up less overall space. It's kind of hard to explain but basically there are two springs and a coupler that kind of fit together. There are videos and instructions on the site.

Based on their website, they make the +1 conversion for the following guns/magazines:

Kahr P380/CW380 (6 to 7)
Kahr P380/CW380 extended magazine (7 to 8)
Kel-Tec P3AT (6 to 7)
Glock 42 (6 to 7)
Glock 43 (6 to 7)
Ruger LCP (6 to 7)
Sig P238 (6 to 7)
S&W BG380 (6 to 7)
Walther PPS M2 (6 to 7)

They also make a +2 conversion for the M&P shield although this one adds 1/4" length to the magazine. The Shield is weird in that the magazine is not a pure single stack design; there is a slight stagger to it.


I'm tempted to order a couple of these. My primary concern would be with reliability. Reliability is always more important than squeezing in an extra round and I would never mess around if that was an issue. That said, in my research most people seem to be happy with theirs and most do not report any issues (whether or not there is a big enough sample size is debatable.) It's probably something you'd have to test extensively for yourself. Has anyone tried them?

Funny you mention that, I got my CCW last year and just recently started carrying all the time. I have an Alien Gear IWB holster that I carry at the 4 o'clock position which puts it right in the way of my wallet. Trying to get used to carrying my wallet in the left pocket is awkward after having carried it in my right for my entire life lol.

At the time, I did not carry anything in my back pockets other than my wallet. Right or left made no difference, either pocket was free, and opening a typical billfold is a two-handed operation anyway. It probably took me about a week to get used to carrying it on the left.

I'm sure most officers have handled this situation many times and it may be overly cautious to move your wallet over, but I figure, why not? It's no inconvenience to me and I don't really want to find myself on the other end of the situation Devil described. That is really unlikely for a CCW holder if they follow the proper protocol, but anything to make the situation easier for all parties involved is a good thing.

I switched my wallet to the front left pocket about 20 years ago. At the same time, I started using a non-folding wallet. I guess they might be called a credit card wallet. It has a clear window for my ID, holds ~6 CCs, my work entry card and a few insurance cards. It's a lot less than most guys carry for sure, but I learned to live with it.

Plus, I like having my wallet deep in my front pocket. It's a lot less likely to fall out or get pulled by a pick-pocket (I do live in Chicago). I have a chain attached to it when I ride my motorcycle, which is a need.

Anyway, I think that would open up my 4 o'clock for carrying, but I've kind of gotten used to carrying my .380 Kimber at 1:30. It's only 5.7" long, so carrying AIWB isn't too difficult.

I am in the market for a 9MM and have narrowed it down to an M&P Shield or the M&P9c Compact. Both are easily CCable as an AIWB, but with the 9c being a double stack, it'll be wider for sure.

My question, which might be only for me to answer, if I go the 9c and it's a bit too long for daily AIWB, do I move it back to the 4 o'clock position? If I do, then I have it in a place where it's harder to draw, more easily pulled my someone else and it will print more too.

...but I do want the double stack over the single stack.

First world problems I guess.

I have a 9c. My son has a shield. Without looking up the differences in barrel length, or width.........let's just say the differences are minimal.

That's me, and my thoughts. The 9c is slightly - slightly bigger. When you lay the guns side by side, it's minimal - IMO.

Well, that certainly didn't work.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you carry?

As for the stats, here they are:

M&P9c Compact
Capacity: 12+1
Barrel Length: 3.5"
Overall Length: 6.7"
Width: 1.2"
Height: 4.3"
Weight: 24.7 oz

M&P9 SHIELD
Capacity: 7+1 or 8+1
Barrel Length: 3.1”
Overall Length: 6.1"
Width: .95"
Height: 4.6"
Weight: 20.8 oz

So yeah, the 9c is only a half an inch longer, 4 ounces heavier, just a bit wider and actually shorter, barely.

Thanks for the tip.

Yeah, I was just basing my opinion on having had both of the guns in front of me. Stacking them side by side, or on top of each other, etc.

IWB, 4ish, coming close to 5ish.

Summer time, with cargo shorts, I've carried in the pocket with, obviously, a pocket holster.

The best thing you could do is handle them and shoot them side by side. See if you can find a range where you can rent firearms.

Be cautious in relying too heavily on listed specs for a couple reasons. One is that different manufacturers use different measurements (some include slide stops in their measurements, others don't.. that kind of thing). Since you're comparing two guns from S&W that probably won't be an issue.

However, small differences in specs, especially width, can make for a significant difference in how well they carry. One example I gave in the OP was the Kahr PM9 vs Kahr P380-- similar enough on paper but there is a large difference in the pocket. A similar thing could be said for typical single stack vs double stack guns for IWB carry. I've never been able to compare Shield vs M&P9c like that, but I have with similar classes of firearms.

I actually did use my PM9 as an appendix IWB for a while. Great shooter, 100% reliable, it was physically comfortable there and concealed beautifully. I stopped doing that because I could never get over where the gun was pointing. If you're ok with it, that might be a gun you could consider (it is smaller than the Shield.)

I have to think that something like the M&P9c is going to be uncomfortable AIWB just due to the thickness. If you can do it though, you have a serious gun and have the option of carrying a full-sized spare magazine.

Also about the Kahrs:

It really seems to be a brand that people either love or hate. They come very tight from the factory and there is a recommended 200 round break-in period (really, you should put at least this many rounds through any carry gun, but they put it in the manual.)

I've never had any problems even during the break-in period but I just thought I'd throw that out there. The PM9 also has tight dual recoil springs and this makes it hard to rack the slide for some people. I don't really know anything about you so don't take this the wrong way. A healthy young or middle aged adult male should have no problem racking the slide. One of my girlfriends (a gun chick) could not rack it no matter how hard she tried (unloaded gun of course.) Just putting it out there.

The benefit to this is that the recoil is very mild for such a small 9mm. It has good sights, good ergonomics, and exceptionally smooth DOA trigger. I shoot it as well or nearly as well as some full-sized guns. And again, it has been 100% for me but realize I'm not doing any torture tests. It's a gun that should be cleaned and lubed semi-regularly. If I were buying today, I would buy the CM9 to save some money-- they cut some non-essential corners on that model.

I lose track of all the guns I've fired but off the top of my head, I don't think I've ever fired the Shield. I have a friend who is happy with his. It seems to get a lot of positive reviews. I rented an M&P9c a long time ago and thought it was an awesome gun, just not really what I was looking for at the time.

I picked up a Shield for off duty carry. I don't have any daily carry experiences with it yet because I have to get out to the range and officially qual with it. Having said that: I'm not a big guy... 5'7", 155lbs, 30-32 inch waist. If I carry it at the 4 o'clock I can wear it comfortably ITWB in just t-shirt and jeans.

I went with the Shield as my first choice because it's Big Brother the M&P 45 is our duty weapon. Man, I freakin' LOVE it! It's reliable and when you have the right grip on it, it really helps mitigate the kick. One of the few draw backs is that if you are attempting to make a contact shot it can get knocked out of battery somewhat easily.

That seems like a wise choice if you already carry an M&P as your duty weapon. The Shield has pretty much the same operation and similar trigger, right? Keeping a consistent manual of arms is an underrated consideration with firearms IMO.

I want a Captain America shield ..... that I can throw and knock the guns out of the hands of the bad guys ....



Oh ..... different shield. Sorry.

I actually have a Capt America shield too! lol

It does and that's the biggest reason I went with it. I don't get to the range nearly as much as I'd like so I don't get the trigger time to train with a different weapon.

Check this out: my fiance is a Sheriff's Deputy and they carry Sig 229's in .357... this latest batch the Sheriff had the Office badge inscribed on the top of the slide! Pretty awesome looking

Gun Porn should be banned.