DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Garoppolo Part Four

Agreed. All three of the top QBs in the draft make me nervous. More nervous than Garappolo.


I'd be okay with Taylor or Glennon too. That would be assuming we'd bolster our O-Line, Secondary, and come out with Myles Garrett.

I don't think one can make any claims on JG's durability.

Casserly:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...-2017-nfl-draft

Good article thanks for posting it.

I agree with most of the article, one area where I disagree is highlighted. The price for Jimmy is more and the risks are fewer but they are still significant.

The cost of acquiring the QB is not higher with Jimmy, IMHO. Getting Trub or Watson will (I believe) cost us the #1 pick. I do not seeing either lasting until pick #12.

I do not think it will take the #1 pick to get Jimmy.

I don't want to get into semantics. Fact is Garopollo only has 2 regular season starts. Never said his skill can't translate to the NFL.

You know I would much rather talk skillset then play word games. But let me pose your same question to you...if Jimmy was a the QB that you think he is Razor a Franchise QB (one of the best ball placement QBs in the NFL) that the Patriots would let him go with such a bad QB shortage going on right now?

Anyhow the Bills don't know what they are doing. Their track record doesn't lend much credence to their decision making.

Tyrod has been a productive QB and has done so with far less supporting cast compared to Jimmy playing for the best franchise in the NFL.

I'm not even advocating for drafting a QB. Maybe it will take the 1st pick QBs tend to get pushed up the draft cost for Jimmy is also in flux, speculated being between 2 2nds or the 12th pick. BUT Jimmy has to be paid. That is the difference in cost I was referring to the salary controlled draft QB vs the salary for a FA QB.

I am not making an overarching point. But speaking specifically to the aritcles comment that the cost is 'roughly' the same. It is not. However; the Browns can afford the higher cost.

Ed we both know the only reason Jimmy G. is up for trade is because Tom is just a freak. They can't hold on to Jimmy G. by franchising him without handcuffing their team's salary cap. What they are going to sign Jimmy to a longterm contract when he will be warming the bench for one of the best QBs of all time? We know Bill is going to get value while he can and that is the ONLY reason they are talking trades.

Tyrod is just being cut because his team doesn't think he is a franchise QB. Who would know him more than they would? Does he have potential on a better team? Sure, but I just don't see him fixing his problems with consistency. I don't place much value on QBs who win by running the ball to bail them out when they can't succeed at throwing it. Too much risk of injury in my opinion so I just don't that style of play in the NFL.

Cost just doesn't matter when pursuing a franchise QB. When you have a chance to get one you just pay whatever you gotta pay and do what you have to, to go and get him. I think that Jimmy G. is going to be a top notch franchise QB of this next decade because of his skillset and ability to throw just flat out beautiful passes.

Some like Mac want to say he is injury prone or a high risk for injury because he has had all of 1 injury his entire career. That is just silly. Meanwhile Watson who had a torn ACL in college is somehow less of an injury risk? It just not reasonable the way some people think.

I'd be fine with Trub at 12 but we all know he won't be there and he has so little play time from college your just rolling the dice with him. It's just a lousy QB class this year. Then again Kis might finally grow up and be decent, Trub might be as good as I think he will be, and Watson might just land on the right team willing to build a team for the WCO's shorter passing game.

No matter who we end up with I sure hope we improve our O-line because otherwise its going to be a shiny BROKEN toy no matter which QB we end up with.

This is from the article in your link. Charlie Casserly is the guy speaking. Sounds like he has a very similar opinion as several of us do about Jimmy G and this year's QB class.

Fair enough. For me style preference doesn't determine success. I think Tyrod's needle points up. Playing under Ryan is one of the worst places for a QB to develop and Tyrod was still productive. The question remains how much more can his passing develop with better coaching? And that is an answer only time and situation will determine.

Agreed. I would also add that scheme plays a huge role in this regard. Its not often discussed by the emphasis on pushing the ball downfield has an impact on how long the QBs hold the ball and the number of sacks and hits the QB take. To be sure part of it is the QBs themselves holding the ball but another oft overlooked aspect is the play design. Waiting on deep sideline comebacks and go routes isn't going to help pass pro. And imo there was a noticeable shift in the design of the passing game towards the end of the season specifically in the Chargers and Steelers games...but I digress...

Does anyone think that we do a draft day deal? Tell the Pats that we are interested, agree on terms, but only pull the trigger if Watson/Trub are taken early?

I don't think he is a "plan b," that we turn to if Watson/Trub are gone. Most likely Jimmy is not even available on draft day. I think he gets dealt somewhere not long after the trading period starts.

FWIW, I heard Mike Mayock on local radio (Ken Carman Show) saying none of this year's QB's should be considered in the first round, much less the top ten (around the 4 minute mark in the interview).

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/02/14...he-intangibles/

(BTW, he also seems to like Jonathan Allen better than Myles Garrett.)

+1, I like JG over any rookie QB, our O line AGAIN had freak injuries, moving E from center HAS TO happen, with solid improvement from last years O line rookies we SHOULD be alright.....GO Browns...get JG IF he's available.

3. What about Mitch Trubisky?

One high-level NFL personnel executive told me this week that Mentor native Mitch Trubisky of North Carolina is the best quarterback in the 2017 class and that the Browns should take him No. 1 overall.

"He's as good as Carson Wentz, he's got a big arm and he's athletic,'' the executive told cleveland.com. "He's got a chance to be special, and I can't find holes in him. He's got a quick release, he's accurate and he's tough. He sees the entire field."

Not everyone agrees. NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock, who's hearing that Trubisky will measure closer to 6-1 at the combine than a listed 6-3, released his top five prospects at each position Tuesday, and he has Trubisky ranked third at QB. No. 1 is Notre Dame's DeShone Kizer and No. 2 is Clemson's DeShaun Watson. Rounding out the top five are Patrick Mahomes of Texas Tech and Davis Webb of California.

"All three of these quarterbacks, to me, I would be scared to death in the top 10," Mayock told The College Draft podcast.

He added, "If (Trubisky is) so talented and gifted, and a top-10-type pick, one of the first questions a lot of teams are asking is, why couldn't he beat out Marquise Williams the last couple years at North Carolina? What's the answer to that one?"

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/02/browns_buzz_on_jimmy_garoppolo.html

I tend to put a lot of stock into what Mike Mayock says.

Any way you cut it, draftig or trading for a QB is risky business. Maybe the hardest projection in any sport. Drafting a HS pitcher and projecting him to be a #1 starter might be as hard. There are just so many things that can go wrong physically, and it hard to project a players mental make-up and measure his "heart" for the game.

Yes. I think his play solely in college was better than that of any QB in this draft. I am not enamored with any QB in this draft. We are in agreement that with his limited pro showing, he ranks even higher than any QB coming out in this draft.

Now...I couldn't write a useful QB critique like others can...and I don't go back and watch tape of any games other than Browns games. So...if someone disagrees with my opinion, that's fine by me. It's just my 'untrained' eye.

I understand why you would ask me that question...I just can't give you any more details than I did above. I do enjoy reading various player evaluations by you, Diam, Vers, and others...I learn good stuff in those reads.

j/c:

It's amazing how many people are ignoring comments from NFL people regarding Jimmy G.

And people are letting BS go, such as Jimmy G being undersized and him being an injury risk because he leaves the pocket. What?!?!

Jimmy G is the same exact size as Aaron Rodgers. Guess we wouldn't want him either because our OL is so bad and he is undersized and leaves the pocket.

I really have a problem w/how much misinformation is being spread on this board. Garrett is lazy. Garrett has mental issues. Jimmy G is injury prone. Jimmy G is undersized and leaves the pocket too often.

It's all garbage.

It's just that time of the year man. People don't have actual games that have actual results and stats to bring forward, so people can just start spreading their goofy stuff with no way to really be able to keep them in check.


Silly season for a reason. Just read it and move on. No need getting suspended over some goofball making crazy claims.

I have been more active this year, but why for the last few years I have pretty much shut down the posting between the last game and the draft, and then between the draft and camp.

Just too much crap to sift through. Go buy a snowscene jigsaw puzzle with 1000 pieces. That is a good way to kill a few hours a night for a good long while. Like any, you can construct the edges fairly quickly, but the more snow involved, it slows down rapidly.

I really like Mitch ... a whole lot ... but if we can come away with JG and Garrett ... I'd be happy as hell ...

Not sure how realistic that is ... everyone says that Watson and Mitch and possibly even Kizer will be off the board at 12 .... if that's the case and most have JG rated higher than them why wouldn't one of the teams that would take Mitch or Watson with their top 10 pick not trade that pick for Jimmy ...

Hopefully we can walk away with JG and Garrett ... even though I really like Mitch ... were a better football team the other way and would be setting the table for a huge improvement in 18 ... a big jump next year but a real big one the next if theses dumbasses do things right ... *LOL* ...

Julian Edelman says Jimmy Garoppolo is 'a stud' and 'a gunslinger' like Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ncart_big-photo

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on February 15, 2017 at 5:35 PM, updated February 15, 2017 at 5:56 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Josh McCown isn't the only NFL player who's mentioned Jimmy Garoppolo in the same breath as Aaron Rodgers in the past week.

Patriots receiver Julian Edelman, who's spent the past three seasons with Garoppolo in New England, compared Garoppolo's mentality to that of Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

"I'm not a paid GM so I don't know the whole value thing, but as far as a guy that I could play with every single day, Jimmy Garoppolo, I mean, the guy's a stud," Edelman said Tuesday night on NFL Network's Total Access. "He went out and played in the regular season and he played very well. He's got that kind of gunslinger confidence. That Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers kind of confidence. He practices hard, he prepares hard. He's a good kid. He's young. I think he's a good player."

Edelman should know. In addition to practicing together every day for the past three years, Garoppolo started the first two games of the season while Tom Brady was serving his Deflategate suspension, and completed 13 passes for 135 yards to Edelman in six quarters. They connected seven times for 66 yards in an opening day victory over the Cardinals and six times for 69 yards in a victory over the Dolphins before Garoppolo left the game with a shoulder injury.

Last week, McCown, who was released by the Browns, likened some of Garoppolo's skillset to that of Rodgers, the two-time NFL MVP.

"I saw some things in Derek Carr early on in the 2014 draft that reminded me of Aaron Rodgers and I thought 'this guy is going to be pretty good,'' McCown told cleveland.com. "I see the same things when I watch Jimmy: quick release, strong arm, athletic. I'm not saying he's Aaron Rodgers, but he's got some traits in the same mold, and he's got tremendous upside.''

So why would the Patriots part with him? Maybe they won't, but Tom Brady, who will be 40 in August, told Peter King of Monday Morning Quarterback over the weekend that he's nowhere near ready to hang it up.

"I'd like to play until my mid-40s," he said. "Then I'll make a decision. If I'm still feeling like I'm feeling today, who knows? Now, those things can always change. You do need long-term goals too. I know next year is not going to be my last year."

Still, some including King and former Browns coach and Patriots defensive coordinator Eric Mangini, don't think Bill Belichick will let him go.

"No, I don't think so at all," Mangini told Colin Cowherd on FS1's The Herd, via the Boston Herald. "I don't think Bill's made very many mistakes — especially in the quarterback area — over time. Remember, his biggest one, his biggest decision early was to cut Bernie Kosar (because of) diminishing skills (in 1995 when Belichick coached the Browns). So he brings in Vinny Testaverde.

"Kosar goes and backs up in Dallas, Vinny actually takes the Jets to the AFC Championship Game. And he trades Drew Bledsoe — there's a No. 1 draft pick. Drew had an OK time in Buffalo. That was a plus decision for New England. Then you get Matt Cassel for a (second-round pick), then you get Ryan Mallett for a sixth."

We can agree to disagree that when Jimmy was coming out as a college prospect that he would rank ahead of the QBs in this draft class.

I know many people speak/post based their opinions on 'impressions' more then time consuming football geek stuff (and rightfully so) watching film, charting games, research etc. And that's fine.

And we already agree that discussing who he was coming out is really a moot point because he's developed since then.

However, I think given an honest look at the general criteria for ranking QBs IF you look at Jimmy solely as the player he was then I don't see how he can rank above the guys at the top of this class. (Level of competition, Baylor style air-raid system, average size, average arm etc.)

This is another article that will be ignored by the "experts" on this board that don't like Jimmy G.

Jesus Christ.....

Are you trying to tell me that Jesus Christ can't hit a curve ball?

IMO Jimmy G. is the best QB option for us. He is better than anyone we can get in the draft or sign in FA. Now the question is how much do we want to give up to get him? I'm not sure myself. Maybe Our 33rd and a 4th. I hate to give up picks because we have so many holes to fill but he may be worth it.

https://twitter.com/Edwerderespn/status/832264687945396224

Werder is the second prominent person to say this, Peter King being the other.

This is pretty big news. I wonder what is triggering this decision, if true....how much they like him or the assets (or lack thereof) they're getting out amongst teams. Maybe it's not worth it to them.

What about me ... I said it was a real possibility 3 weeks ago ... ...

I'd believe NOTHING I hear now ....

and my thoughts are that he will be traded .... its not the no-brainer most think it is ... but it does make the most sense ...

j/c:

One person's interpretation....and I tend to agree with it.


https://twitter.com/_PeteSmith_/status/832265934702313472

They've done this before. I wouldn't be shocked if they held on to him for a year as Brady injury insurance, franchised him after the 2017 season, and then traded him (like they did with Cassel).

Someone check on Razorthorns to see how he is handling the possibility of Garoppolo not getting traded.

j/c

At the moment I think any news story is as likely to be NE generating a negotiating platform as it is to be genuine. That's not to say it isn't true ... but that I believe it's 50/50.

NOW - I want JG on the Browns next year for a combination of 2nd round picks. I am not prepared to deal #12. Of this year's QB's I would be happy with Trubisky at #12 - not at #1. . . if neither of those is possible I think Tyrod would be an upgrade but we're now down to option 3 and I like that a lot less than Options 1 and 2.

Regarding JG .... I do have this scenario for you all to answer. And I want you to try and think - not like a Browns Fan or Browns GM - but as a Patriots GM/HC.

Brady is 39 - wants to play till he is 45. He's gotten better with age and keeps himself in great physical condition. He's shown the ability that he *might* be able to do it.

But also history shows us that there can be a dramatic failing of abilities for older NFL players at any position let alone one of the most demanding on the field .... so there has to be SOME risk that despite good trends with Brady, he could deteriorate, and as an older pleyer he is more likely to be hurt more seriously than a 20-something guy when/if he gets hit. . . . bottom line history says that Brady playing at an elite level for another year or two, let along 6 is highly unlikely.

Jimmy has one more year of a rookie contract. You can trade him now - and get something for him. Maybe a late first. Certainly a couple of second round picks. . . . and if you don't trade him you risk losing him for nothing.

Let's assume you believe JG can be a franchise QB in the NFL based on first hand observation for the last couple years.

What represents the greatest risk to the long term health of your team: Losing a talent to FA and not getting anything back for him .... but having him as your #1 option to sign long term if Brady shows signs of deteriorating skills (or gets hurt)..... Or trading him so you get something for him now - but risk seeing a top 10 QB play for another team and seeing Brady slow down or get hurt ? . . . . . I have to say I am thinking that if I truly think JG is an elite talent, and with the real risk of something happening to Brady. I think it's prudent to hold onto JG for a year and see what happens. If he left in FA next year, I think NE would probably get a 3rd round compensatory pick? So you get 'something'? (correct me if that isn't right.). An good QB on your roster, even with the risk of losing him next year - is worth more than a low end first round pick or maybe even a mid first round pick. . . imo

As i said before if the Pats want to keep JG they have the cap room, it all depends on how they value JG and if JG is willing to stay in NE.

It wouldn't surprise me. I mean regardless of what Tom wants Bill might decide to keep Jimmy and let Tom go. I mean they can keep Jimmy another 3 years if they keep the right amount of caps space going and by then Tom might be closer to retirement than he thinks he is.

Then again Jimmy might just rebel at wasting another 3 years of his career sitting on the bench and demand a trade. From one of his interviews it sounds like he just wants to be somewhere he can play. Bill has a tough decision to make.

I think at the end of the day Bill will trade him. I have no idea if we win that offer or if some other team does. What I do know is I have been watching him for 4 plus years now and he is going to be one of the best QBs in the league for a long time to come.

When it comes to QBs what school they came from doesn't mean anything. It's all about their skillset and their ability to put the ball where it needs to be in a timely fashion. In the past 4 years nothing has happened to change my mind that he is an elite QB who is going to do great things. I said it before the draft and I am even more convinced now. I would just love it if we got him.

My new worst fear is that With Ben talking retirement that Pitts trades their first round pick for Jimmy because then we are sunk for another decade.

The Patriots QB discussion is about as close as we have seen to a Joe Montana/Steve Young starter/backup, or Brett Farve/Aaron Rogers situation in a while. This is the exception to the rule "If you have 2 QBs, you really have no QBs." In both situations, the older QB was kept until there was no difference between the two, then the older QB was let go.

If I were the Patriots, I would hold on to both for as long as I could. I do not expect NE to trade Garopolo.