|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
j/c,
I like the sound of;
SLB Collins
MLB Haason Reddick
WLB Kirksey . . . for 20% of the snaps.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
j/c,
I like the sound of;
SLB Collins
MLB Haason Reddick
WLB Kirksey . . . for 20% of the snaps. How about... Garrett Shelton Ogbah Collins For another 20%..?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
j/c,
I like the sound of;
SLB Collins
MLB Haason Reddick
WLB Kirksey . . . for 20% of the snaps. How about... Garrett Shelton Ogbah Collins For another 20%..? Yes. Having Garrett, Ogbah, and Collins on the field 100% of the time will be very nice.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
I don't understand the want by so many of you to spend a high pick on a 3rd LB. It's literally the equivalent of using a 1st or 2nd on a dime CB, 4th WR, FB,etc. Same playing time.
Last edited by predator16; 02/20/17 03:07 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891
All Pro
|
|
OP
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891 |
I was thinking late round guys for depth, who could start down the road.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
And I agree with that but there are an awful lot of people advocating 1st and 2nd round prospects. I do want a LB in the later rounds but I'd prioritize 2 cbs, FS, SS, re, 3T, RT, C, TE and qb way over a MLB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
j/c,
I like the sound of;
SLB Collins
MLB Haason Reddick
WLB Kirksey . . . for 20% of the snaps. As opposed to having a whole in our defence 2 out of 10 plays? Yes! And that 20% is a false misleading statement imo. That is an average based on many different games of which no two are ever the same. In the bigger picture I see two LB,s on our current roster in whom I have any faith in. If we are going to add anything to that group it will have to come earlier than later in this years draft, due in large part to its lack of depth at the position.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
And I agree with that but there are an awful lot of people advocating 1st and 2nd round prospects. I do want a LB in the later rounds but I'd prioritize 2 cbs, FS, SS, re, 3T, RT, C, TE and qb way over a MLB. What is wrong with our CB's? TE's?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
I don't trust anyone beyond Jamar Taylor and BBC to actually be on the field for 16 games.
I wouldn't be surprised however that if we started winning, that Haden's injury rate suddenly went down... I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying.
I will always believe that our lack of pass rush makes our DBs look 10 times as worse.
Draft Garrett and Hooker and focus on bothering the QB and I think our CBs would be just fine.
I would love to get Jordan Lewis though.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
I don't trust anyone beyond Jamar Taylor and BBC to actually be on the field for 16 games.
I wouldn't be surprised however that if we started winning, that Haden's injury rate suddenly went down... I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying.
I will always believe that our lack of pass rush makes our DBs look 10 times as worse.
Draft Garrett and Hooker and focus on bothering the QB and I think our CBs would be just fine.
I would love to get Jordan Lewis though. I can agree with your [censored] of our defense last year. That and our lack of a pass rush and the health of Joe Haden. I'm in no way abdicating ignoring the CB position in the draft, but if one doesn't shake out to us early, there are still some talented CB's to be found from rounds 3-4 to add deepth to that position. Saftey's that don't help in coverage (nor the running game) really puts a lot of added pressure on our CB's.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891
All Pro
|
|
OP
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891 |
I'd like to add some size in our secondary, size that can play that is.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
j/c:
I think our entire secondary stinks. We need huge upgrades to the entire unit. It won't all get done this year, but I hope the Browns bring in at least two quality players to help that unit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
And that 20% is a false misleading statement imo. No. It is a fact. Your opinion doesn't matter when we are talking about facts. Facts are facts. Here are the snap counts numbers for the 2016 season: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcountsRams week one - Two linebackers played on 100% of the snaps on defense (Mark Barron and Alec Ogletree). No other linebacker played a snap. Rams week two - Two linebackers played 100% (Barron and Ogletree). One played 15% (Josh Forrest). Rams week three - 100% (Barron and Ogletree), 13% (Forrest), 4% (Bryce Hager), 1% (Cory Littleton). And so on and so forth. For the season the Alec Ogletree played 100% of the defensive snaps, Mark Barron played 99.72%, Cory Littleton 11.19%, Josh Forrest 8.26%, and Bryce Hager 1.01%. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2016-snap-counts.htmWe will be playing two linebackers all the time. Maybe even one with a hybrid type player (like Mark Barron).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
And that 20% is a false misleading statement imo. No. It is a fact. Your opinion doesn't matter when we are talking about facts. Facts are facts. Here are the snap counts numbers for the 2016 season: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcountsRams week one - Two linebackers played on 100% of the snaps on defense (Mark Barron and Alec Ogletree). No other linebacker played a snap. Rams week two - Two linebackers played 100% (Barron and Ogletree). One played 15% (Josh Forrest). Rams week three - 100% (Barron and Ogletree), 13% (Forrest), 4% (Bryce Hager), 1% (Cory Littleton). And so on and so forth. For the season the Alec Ogletree played 100% of the defensive snaps, Mark Barron played 99.72%, Cory Littleton 11.19%, Josh Forrest 8.26%, and Bryce Hager 1.01%. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2016-snap-counts.htmWe will be playing two linebackers all the time. Maybe even one with a hybrid type player (like Mark Barron). I see, so we are going to have the same roster and same opponents as did the 2016 Rams. Got it.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
I see, so we are going to have the same roster and same opponents as did the 2016 Rams. Got it. This is not a Rams thing. This is an entire NFL thing. Our new defensive coordinator just happens to use three linebackers even less frequently than the rest of the league.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
And I agree with that but there are an awful lot of people advocating 1st and 2nd round prospects. I do want a LB in the later rounds but I'd prioritize 2 cbs, FS, SS, re, 3T, RT, C, TE and qb way over a MLB. What is wrong with our CB's? TE's? Haden cannot stay healthy and when he was here was so far behind on his conditioning from being hurt he was awful. He needs to restructure his deal or this will definitely be his last year here. If he didn't garner such a cap penalty he'd have been cut by now. Boddy and Taylor outplayed expectations but even if both were to continue in their development they are nickle and dime cbs on a good team. I'd like to sign johnson and take one of the smaller CBs like Lewis or white. TEs? I get people love Gary as a player but he's hardly scaring anyone and his depth is completely unproven. After this season his contract will likely be dropped as his penalty drops below that golden 20% #. Basically we have 1 year of Gary, 2 of a decent blocking TE in telfer and a completely unproven, though promising, 1 dimensional passing threat in devalve. This year TE'S and CBS are the strongest they've been in 5 years. We need to come out of this draft with our future at both positions.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
I see, so we are going to have the same roster and same opponents as did the 2016 Rams. Got it. This is not a Rams thing. This is an entire NFL thing. Our new defensive coordinator just happens to use three linebackers even less frequently than the rest of the league. He is correct. The rest of the league stands roughly around 30%. And I even think it's dishonest to call Barron a LB. I project kirk and collins will be the 100%ers with only goalline or a hybrid player changing that. Even last year with the rams when an extra LBER cane in it was usually an exotic look for barron where he was logged as a 3rd S.
Last edited by predator16; 02/21/17 12:14 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
I see, so we are going to have the same roster and same opponents as did the 2016 Rams. Got it. This is not a Rams thing. This is an entire NFL thing. Our new defensive coordinator just happens to use three linebackers even less frequently than the rest of the league. He is correct. The rest of the league stands roughly around 30%. And I even think it's dishonest to call Barron a LB. I project kirk and collins will be the 100%ers with only goalline or a hybrid player changing that. Even last year with the rams when an extra LBER cane in it was usually an exotic look for barron where he was logged as a 3rd S. I vote for Eric Berry.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
I don't understand the want by so many of you to spend a high pick on a 3rd LB. It's literally the equivalent of using a 1st or 2nd on a dime CB, 4th WR, FB,etc. Same playing time. Drafting Peppers would give us a LBer who would be on the field all of the time...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Peppers is overrated and I would not draft him in either of the first two rounds.
Just my humble opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
These days it seems like peppers is valued as a high 2nd type player so I don't think you're that far off vers. I just think he's an unknown and very risky but as a 2nd rounder for his kind of potential? Yeah I could get behind that. I'm also a fan boy for chess pieces and versatile defenders.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Pair his recent decline with the thought of trading down and getting a second and first for him. And well, that's why I'm all for him being our linebacker. But there's also a lot of talented players who could still be on the board.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608 Likes: 89
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608 Likes: 89 |
These days it seems like peppers is valued as a high 2nd type player so I don't think you're that far off vers. I just think he's an unknown and very risky but as a 2nd rounder for his kind of potential? Yeah I could get behind that. I'm also a fan boy for chess pieces and versatile defenders. Serious question, not trying to be snarky, so sorry if this comes off that way. Outside of athleticism, what potential do you see? All I saw was a highly-hyped safety who amassed one interception in his entire college career, and that was a tipped ball right to him. Nothing to do with coverage or instincts, he was not near the play and covering an empty piece of the field when the ball came right to him. He did catch it, though.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Just wondering...on those facts. Were there any injuries involved, guys still getting acclimated to the System. Was there talent there?
I understand the Nickel D is out there a lot bit in our division we are looking to stop the run and put teams in passing situations. If we are giving up 5+ on first down we will have to keep our 4-3 in there. Of course if they bring in a lot of WRs we will have to bring in our Nickel and Dime.
We have to see how Williams wants to utilize the guys we have here.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Just wondering...on those facts. Were there any injuries involved, guys still getting acclimated to the System. Was there talent there? The entire league is moving toward playing nickel (by moving towards I mean the league plays in nickel 70% of the time). Most teams do not use fullbacks and have tight ends that are threats in the passing game. This is a league wide trend because passing has become so prevalent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,430 Likes: 15
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,430 Likes: 15 |
N0w if we just had a QB , LOL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
So we measure how good a Safety is only by how many INTs they have?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
The entire league is moving toward playing nickel (by moving towards I mean the league plays in nickel 70% of the time). Most teams do not use fullbacks and have tight ends that are threats in the passing game. This is a league wide trend because passing has become so prevalent. 
Tell me something I don't know...got news for you - YOU STILL HAVE TO STOP THE RUN!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
So we measure how good a Safety is only by how many INTs they have? Course we do, that's why Earl "Too Pretty To Tackle" Little is the best safety we've had since our return!
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
The entire league is moving toward playing nickel (by moving towards I mean the league plays in nickel 70% of the time). Most teams do not use fullbacks and have tight ends that are threats in the passing game. This is a league wide trend because passing has become so prevalent.
Tell me something I don't know...got news for you - YOU STILL HAVE TO STOP THE RUN!
Before this season started Belichick said that you have to be able to run out of shotgun to win in today's NFL. The teams in our division are beginning to do that. Look at who their TE's are and their specialty. Teams are running it out of shotgun in hopes people play their MLB more as it opens them up in the passing lanes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
The entire league is moving toward playing nickel (by moving towards I mean the league plays in nickel 70% of the time). Most teams do not use fullbacks and have tight ends that are threats in the passing game. This is a league wide trend because passing has become so prevalent.
Tell me something I don't know...got news for you - YOU STILL HAVE TO STOP THE RUN!
So you better have some good safeties.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
I see, so we are going to have the same roster and same opponents as did the 2016 Rams. Got it. This is not a Rams thing. This is an entire NFL thing. Our new defensive coordinator just happens to use three linebackers even less frequently than the rest of the league. He is correct. The rest of the league stands roughly around 30%. And I even think it's dishonest to call Barron a LB. I project kirk and collins will be the 100%ers with only goalline or a hybrid player changing that. Even last year with the rams when an extra LBER cane in it was usually an exotic look for barron where he was logged as a 3rd S. He said 20%.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Safeties is key.
I know you are solid in your fact finding.
I tried to find a Percentage regarding Nickel and Dime Defense. The best I could do is 63.4% for 2015 I could not find a number for 2016. Was 70% rounding up???
Note...all I saw for 70% in 2016 was the Steelers who are known for playing Nickel.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
I see, so we are going to have the same roster and same opponents as did the 2016 Rams. Got it. This is not a Rams thing. This is an entire NFL thing. Our new defensive coordinator just happens to use three linebackers even less frequently than the rest of the league. He is correct. The rest of the league stands roughly around 30%. And I even think it's dishonest to call Barron a LB. I project kirk and collins will be the 100%ers with only goalline or a hybrid player changing that. Even last year with the rams when an extra LBER cane in it was usually an exotic look for barron where he was logged as a 3rd S. He said 20%. Greg Williams was in a two linebacker set 20% of the time last year with the Rams. He is our new defensive coordinator.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
I see, so we are going to have the same roster and same opponents as did the 2016 Rams. Got it. This is not a Rams thing. This is an entire NFL thing. Our new defensive coordinator just happens to use three linebackers even less frequently than the rest of the league. He is correct. The rest of the league stands roughly around 30%. And I even think it's dishonest to call Barron a LB. I project kirk and collins will be the 100%ers with only goalline or a hybrid player changing that. Even last year with the rams when an extra LBER cane in it was usually an exotic look for barron where he was logged as a 3rd S. He said 20%. Greg Williams was in a two linebacker set 20% of the time last year with the Rams. He is our new defensive coordinator. What will you do if one of those two are injured, needs a breather? You also need LB's to play on ST units. Many starting LB's do. Personally I would rather we draft a starting MLB, than a 3rd CB in round 2. But TJMO.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 02/22/17 06:26 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
You want your second round lb playing special teams? Mangini? Is that you 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
You want your second round lb playing special teams? Mangini? Is that you No, Bill Belichick
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
What will you do if one of those two are injured, needs a breather? You also need LB's to play on ST units. Many starting LB's do.
Personally I would rather we draft a
starting MLB, than a 3rd CB in round 2.
But TJMO. Alec Ogletree and Mark Barron didn't get many breathers. They both played 100% of the defensive snaps. You would rather draft a player who will play 20% of the snaps than a guy who will play 80%? That makes no sense. A third corner impacts a game much more than a "starting" linebacker. Who starts does not matter, it's who sees the field the most. With this thinking we should also take a fullback early in the draft because he also starts. Football has changed. Teams pass way more and pass way more efficiently. Almost all tight ends can catch, most teams play three wide receivers most of the time, and no one uses fullbacks [all that much]. We have two linebackers that should be able to stay on the field for all three downs, we shouldn't use a high pick on a backup. (This is similar to the argument I made against drafting Danny Shelton. I thought he would have to come off the field during clear pass rushing downs, and if that was the case he was not worth a high pick. The jury is still on Shelton.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
I know that. The third outside CB is what I meant. We have our nickle back in BBC.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
FYI a 6th db played 27% of the time for williams last tear..
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft LBer help.
|
|
