DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Fair Value Terrell Pryor

LOL.........I agree.

I have a couple of more thoughts on Pryor and the Browns.

--I think we need to remember that he is new to the position and that he has room to grow. His route running improved a lot in the span of one year and it should continue to get better.

--He has elite size and excellent speed.

--I don't like how much he talks or the angry faces during games, but man, there are so many WRs that do the same thing.

--People say things like so and so wouldn't do as good here as they are w/their current teams because our QBs are bad and the surrounding talent is poor. Yet, w/Pryor.........I read stuff like he only did good because he played on a bad team. Confusing logic.

--I have very little knowledge of contractual stuff and hate to comment, but I hope that the Browns and Pryor can reach a deal w/out franchising or tagging him. I hope it is full of escalators gives the Browns an out in 2-3 years in case he isn't performing well. LOL...not sure if that is feasible, but that is my hope.

--I think there is a good chance the Browns are going to keep him. I think things have changed a bit w/the Browns. I think Hue has been granted more power [pure speculation on my part] and that the team might move away from analytics just a bit and rely more on Hue and his staff. I think Hue likes Pryor and that Pryor likes Hue and ultimately, the two sides will reach an agreement.

Mack was on the transition tag, so we had the right to match the contract. Pryor is not tagged yet. And is an unrestricted free agent, so we would not receive compensation until next years compensatory picks. Here are the different tags:

"What is a franchise tag? It's a one-year contract tender that serves as a mechanism to allow teams to retain their top players that are set to hit free agency. Each team can tag one player every year.

Once tagged, players can play the next season under the terms of the tender, or work out a long-term extension with their team. The NFL sets a deadline (July 15 for franchise players, July 22 for transition players this year) for teams to negotiate with tagged players. If no deal is reached, the player has to play under the tag.

How are the different tag types different? There are three versions of the tag - the exclusive tag, the non-exclusive tag and the transition tag. Here's how each tag type works:

Exclusive: Player receives a one-year tender that is the average of the top five player salaries at his position or 120 percent of his previous season's salary, depending on which value is higher. Under the exclusive tag, a player cannot negotiate with any other clubs.

Non-exclusive: Player receives a one-year tender that is the average of the top five player salaries at his position or 120 percent of his previous season's salary, depending on which value is higher. Under the non-exclusive tag, a player can negotiate with other clubs and receive an offer sheet, which his team can match to retain him. If the original team declines to match the offer sheet, it receives two first-round picks from the player's new team as compensation.

Transition tag: Player receives a one-year tender that is the average of the top 10 player salaries at his position. A player can negotiate with other clubs and receive an offer sheet, which his team can match to retain him. If the original team declines to match the offer sheet, they receive no compensation in return. Players cannot talk to other teams during the legal tampering period if they are transition tagged. A team cannot use the transition tag if it has already used the franchise tag, or vice versa."

I'd rather have TP than a second rounder and to be honest after the way corey played I'd rather have TP than a first rounder too lol

Yeah, Coleman was a real disappointment for me this year. Not saying he won't improve. He may. Just talking about what he brought to the team this year.

Thanks

So, there isn't both the 2 first rounder tag, and a different one that allows us to tag him with a second round compensation? Did something change? Was that a part of the old agreement?

I think you're thinking about the restricted free agents. here's the way that works.

Restricted free agents (RFAs)

These are players who have three "accrued seasons," no more, no less. They're becoming less common these days since many rookie contracts run for four years. Most players you see come up as restricted free agents are late-round picks, undrafted free agents and off-the-street players that have caught on with teams and are worth re-signing.

A team has two options with restricted free agents: 1) come to terms with a normal, long-term deal with the player, or 2) place a "tender" or "qualifying offer" on the player. (You'll hear both. They mean the same thing.) A tender is basically a pre-determined one-year contract that the team can offer a restricted free agent. For the 2016 offseason, there are three options (dollar amounts from OverTheCap):

First round tender: 1 year, about $3.582 million
Second round tender: 1 year, about $2.516 million
Right of first refusal/Original round tender: 1 year, about $1.647 million

Those names are not just for show. As the name implies, other teams can sign away restricted free agents -- at a price. Another team can come in and offer a restricted free agent more money to sign elsewhere, but must also give away a draft pick -- namely the one mentioned in the type of tender. "Original round" refers to the round the restricted agent was initially drafted in. If he was not drafted, there is no draft compensation.

Right of refusal -- This means that a restricted free agent's team can match any offer made by another team trying to sign him away and retain the player at that price.

Exclusive rights free agents (ERFAs)

These are players whose contract have expired before they've complete three "accrued seasons." These are mostly undrafted free agents, practice squad players and young players that were picked up midseason.

ERFAs cannot negotiate with other teams. They have one option: accept the $600,000 one-year tender from the team they played for that season -- if it offers one.

In this instance, the teams have all the control. ERFAs can't test the market, but they can try to talk a team into signing them long-term, but there's often little incentive to do so.

That's only for RFAs. You can set a round value, which determines the tag value, and compensation if someone else signs him.

I recall Tashaun Gipson being slightly upset we "only" tagged him with a 2nd round tender.

We can tag him with a tag that allow us to have exclusive rights to even speak with him, or another that allows him to negotiate a deal anywhere in the NFL, and if we don't match it, we get 2 1st round picks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tag

In the National Football League (NFL), the franchise tag is a designation a team may apply to a player scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent. The tag binds the player to the team for one year if certain conditions are met. Each team only has one franchise tag (of either the exclusive or non-exclusive forms) and one transition tag per year. The transition tag can only be used if the team does not use a franchise tag. As a result, each team may only designate one player each year as that team's franchise player using one of the three tag options.

Perhaps originally designed to reduce player movement to bigger markets, which is often evidenced in the other major pro sports leagues, the NFL revenue sharing and a hard salary cap has placed teams on an even playing field relative to salaries. The tag options allow NFL franchises an extended bargaining period for a player that they feel is key to their success. Usually reserved for players of great skill or of high importance to the team, a franchise tag allows a team's general manager the privilege of strategically retaining valuable free-agent players while seeking talent through the NFL draft or other acquisitions without exceeding the League's salary cap.

The designated franchise player will have his one-year salary guaranteed if he elects to play for the team that designated him with the franchise tag and if he does not negotiate a contract with another team.

Usually, if a player gets more than he's worth, I'll think "good for him.", because after all, its not my money. Even though the Browns can afford it, I don't really see a $15M WR when I look at Pryor. He's only elite in Brownsworld, not the league. He made great strides last year, and achieved the improbable feat of changing positions at the NFL level. For that, he deserves a healthy contract. I agree with Vers that something with performance escalators would be appropriate - something around $10-11M with the ability to approach the elite scale of pay when he achieves elite performance. I would also like to see less acting out on the field and on the sideline. There's a fine line between being a "fiery leader" and being an A-hole diva.

If this is true .. we really need to lock this bum up ... and i am no fan of Pryor ... but Stills STINKS ... if he's worthwhat this says .. GOD HELP US ... *L*

No way this can be true ....

According to the Miami Herald's Armando Salguero, the market for free agent Kenny Stills is "already in the $12 million-a-year" range.

It sounds absurd. Only six receivers around the entire league make $12 million-plus annually. With the salary cap only continuing to rise by the year, lower-tiered players are going to start making more. Stills had a career year in 2016 and is still really young, as he doesn't turn 25 until April. He's also more than just a deep threat. The Eagles are already said to be knocking down Stills' door preparing to make a run at him when free agency opens March 9. Salguero doesn't expect the Dolphins to come close to Stills' asking price.

That's scary

IMO...

1. The worst possible scenario is us losing TP to another team in FA.

2. The next worst possible scenario is us signing him to a 'too-big' contract (overpaying).

3. The next next worse scenario is franchising him, and best-case scenario is us signing him to a fair contract.


Now that we got the obvious stuff out of the way, I think that there is a HUUUUUGE gap in between scenarios 1 and 2.... meaning that there's only a tiny difference between 2 and 3, and scenario 1 is so much worse than any other scenario that you do just about anything you can to prevent it. Our cap situation allows us the flexibility to overpay someone in the short term to figure out if we want to pony up to keep him longer.

Conclusion: Make sure Pryor stays here. If you have to franchise him, then do that.

Just remember I warned you guys. I told you that the only safe tag we can use is the franchise tab because some team will be desperate enough to make a crazy offer. Some on here laughed but a receiver of his size and ability can get paid on potential alone.

I really hope we franchise him for a year and see if he is a one hit wonder or someone creating a solid career.

I've seen a few side mentions of him during the season but nothing I can track down for you atm and no I haven't read any rumors or articles about it. It's more just my own gut feeling that the transition tag will end up haunting us. A team that want's him can offer him a contract with a poison pill with a large signing bonus and then just renegotiate after 2 years.

I frankly have not seen enough from him to want to be tied down in a long contract just yet. We have TONS of cap space so to me the safest thing is to franchise him and lose some money this season and see if he shows consistency and improvement. Then after he has proven himself one way or another we offer a fair contract based on what he shows us.

We don't need to leave our destiny in the hands of some other team. Franchise him and control that destiny ourselves. That's my opinion anyways.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer confirms the Browns will not franchise tag free agent Terrelle Pryor.

The Browns have 48 hours to make a decision, but it appears they already have. The MMQB's Albert Breer first reported nine days ago that Pryor wouldn't be franchised. Pryor is reportedly seeking $10-$11 million annually in long-term talks. At least publicly, he's saying he wants to stay in Cleveland.

I have a hard time giving Pryor 11 million a year. I get that it isn't my money and the fact we have plenty of cap space $$ but that is a ton of cash for limited production. If I were the FO I would try to make it look like he got the $$ he wanted but limit the real $$ to about 6-7 million for three years. This would protect the Browns from having a horrible contract when it comes time (hopefully) to be competitive again.

You get stuck with a bad 50 million guaranteed contract you can forget going to get that missing piece we might need in FA when it matters.

Limited production is the wrong term to use. 1st full year at WR and got 1000 yards with no stability at QB and a decimated o-line.

Pay the man.

In other words, practically the exact price you guys came up with on this thread as the high end ceiling.

Why aren't media outlets quoting/sourcing us?

How many of you guys believe Pryor owes Hue? Please don't pound me with "this is a business, he owes Hue nothing, blah, blah..." I don't want to hear it.

Terrell will have generational wealth, if he doesn't blow it, simply because of being in the right place at the right time and it all comes down to Hue. Without Hue, he's... I'm not sure where he would be at this point.

He doesn't owe Hue everything. Hue gave him a chance and Pryor came out and proved himself.


Pryor gave Jackson over 1000 yards receiving last year. I could only imagine how bad this team would have looked without Terelle.

Let's just pay this guy and move on.

Just think if he (and Coleman) had an above average QB throwing them the ball?

Agreed. And just think about how much better he might be next year (same with Coleman).


Now is not the time to break up our WR core. We've got the money, he was one of the few offensive highlights last year, let's sign him

You want to fantasize? Wait, am I allowed to mention... can we bring up, you know. That "punk"?

I'm not saying Terrell owes Hue "everything." I am saying, he is going to be generationally wealthy because of Hue. Without Hue, he is most probably selling insurance.

Brown and Depodesta probably include any emotional stuff in their numbers. When their numbers are blown away, my feeling is that they cut strings because they feel they have to. Not because they are heartless. I suspect they look at it like the player and his agent gave them no choice. They are analytics guys, but I suspect they know that the stats have to be softened, and the human element taken into account.

I'll be surprised if they go higher than 24 guarnteed, 4 years, 42 million. I suspect they see that as significantly overpaying. Right now, I suspect they are lower.

Looks like "Franchise" is out of the equation.

Let me ask again.

Does Terrell Pryor owe Hue?

I've seen higher reported annual amounts than $10-$11. A. Brown just signed a contract....I wonder if that will set a more definitive market. It will at least established the ceiling he won't see.

lol, Josh Gordon? I've finally given up on him. It's too bad too. But a line has to be drawn at some point on this board, and I drew it this past season when he checked himself into rehab again.

I wish him the best. But I have given up on him being a Brown.



Well I'll tell ya. Whatever their numbers say, this team is going to be a lot worse without him than with him. We don't get any better by continuing to create more needs.

This is a guy that we should re-sign.


And at least me, I said, he already paid his debt to Hue. They're square. That's what a 1000 yard season from a try-out guy on a 1-15 team does.

I disagree.

Antonio Brown signed a giant extension today.



https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/836343306326065152

He is the best receiver in the league, so this should set the market for all the other receivers. Brown's agents are also the same agents as Terrelle Pryor (the Rosenhaus brothers). Will this affect Pryor's contract?

It would have to. Any time the ceiling gets pushed up, the market for all goes up. This is probably why there was a delay. The Rosenhaus Bros knew getting Antonio inked was priority #1. Now it makes getting a better deal for Pryor easier.

They make their money by getting the best deal for their clients. They provide a service, and they are pretty damn good at it.

If we can do it transistion tag about 10 million per year.

As I pointed out in this or another thread, if we trnsition tag him, and decide to match the other offer, we can't use it again until his contract is up.


I am not sure we want to do that.

They need to find a way to keep him or the offence is going to look putrid. Then again maybe they plan to pick #1 next year for a QB.

j/c:


https://twitter.com/KenCarmanShow/status/836580568309579778

So, 4 years 48 million.

In the scheme of things, does it matter if it's 4 years 42 million or 4 years 48?

I was worried about Collins getting paid and becoming just a dude playing out his contract.

I don't worry about that with Pryor. I think he still wants to prove himself.

Get it done.

We have until March 9th, 4PM.