DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Garoppolo Part Five

I keep coming back to the question: if Jimmy G is the real deal why would we not trade #12? Then I follow it up with: if Jimmy G is the real deal why would we not trade #1 for him?

Big IF, big IF we think he is the real deal why wouldn't we?
I get the only played 2 games but if this was the year Andrew Luck was coming out then no one would give a second thought about using #1 to obtain him and he hadn't played any games.

So then I ask, if I am not willing to trade #! them why would I be willing to trade #12?

I don't have the answers. These are just some things I ponder.

How much longer does Bill wanna do this?

Forever. What else is he going to do?

Fair questions. My response then is this; in which are you more confident, that Garoppolo is the real deal, or that Garrett (or Allen) are? If you think the chance that Garrett (or Allen) studs out is 90%, and Garoppolo 70%, you have to use #1 for the more sure bet. Obviously, if the reverse is true, then you trade #1. If you think the % chance is equal, then you have a decision to make.

(Insomnia sucks. I try to go to sleep, and instead I'm thinking about this discussion.)

Another thought about why #12, but not #1. If you pass on Garrett, that's it, he'll never make it to #12. But since JG is a trade, we have the chance to beat a higher offer with our multitude of picks. Our trade downs from #2 last year netted us this year's #12 and next year's extra 2nd rounder. Trading those 2 plus a 4th round comp pick might be more appealing to the Pats than what another team might offer. That also gives a rather poetic balance of meaning we would have traded our chance at Wentz and gained Coleman and Garoppolo with the balance.

Isn't it CON- his abilities (he was drafted the place he was drafted because of his perceived abilities) and PRO - his circunstances - the fact he was drafted by NE ?

I'm with you on Mayock, he's by far the best on tv as far as analysts go. So including me in mocking Mayock is, as you put it, misinformation.

Anytime you're gonna mention me as providing misinformation, I'm gonna defend myself. I just don't understand how MY OPINION on a player is misinformation.

And that post was nice, I like the football talk. Very informative. I wish all your posts where like that.

As far as Garoppolo goes, I like him when he came out, Wanted Carr that year, felt he had the most arm talent, ball looked good coming out of his hand. I wouldn't give a first round pick for of the guys coming out this year. I would rather not give a first rounder for Garoppolo but I'd understand it. I'd rather it be a second rounder or as someone wrote(tried hard to find the article, but couldn't) two seconds, one this year and one next year. The article I read basically said Belichick would prefer two seconds in consecutive years to a high first.

Had a feeling this was too good to be true........ I don't think Taylor will be available either.

This may also be as a result that NE is finding what they want, is not what teams are willing to give up. Specically a first rounder. This could be a ploy by Belichek to see if a team eventually gets impatient and ups the asset(s) to get him. But that's pure speculation on my end.

Very true. This could def be a possibility

Or the league source could be Lombardi
Who makes a living floating whatever story BB wants out there
IMO

j/c:

Even Joe Thomas is on it....


https://twitter.com/joethomas73/status/836955572784218114

I like Jimmy Garrapolo better than any of the QB's in this years draft. I think the best offer to the Pats would be swap of #1's in 2017 and a conditional pick in 2018. No lower than a 4th round pick in 2018 but can reach as high as a 2nd round pick in 2018 if he reaches certain numbers like 3,500 yards passing with 20+ TD. That way if he bombs the Browns are not married to him and can go after a QB in 2018 and this move only costs them 20 spots in 2017 and a 4th in 2018. If he pans out then our franchise QB will cost us 20 spots in 2017 + a 2nd rounder in 2018.

When you say swap of first round picks, I assume you mean our #12?

Yes. The #1 is not going to get traded. Take Myles Garrett and don't look back.

The Boston Herald's Jeff Howe insists a Jimmy Garoppolo trade is "still in play" despite Wednesday reports the Patriots aren't expected to deal him.

The Pats leaking word they don't intend to trade Garoppolo only strengthens their position and could have been a leverage-aimed move. "Let's not pretend the Pats are hanging up the phone when teams call," Howe wrote. Howe believes New England would be "happy" to keep Garoppolo behind 39-year-old Tom Brady, but "they'd also be happy if a team met their trade demands." Garoppolo's trade-market price would almost certainly involve a first-round pick and more.

http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football?r=1

I can't imagine the market for a 40 year old Brady (41 by the time 2018 season starts) with a 44m contract for 2018/2019 would be very large. Sure there will be a couple potential teams (think Denver when they signed Peyton). That'd also cost NE $14m in dead money. I just don't see them trading Brady. Them keeping Garoppolo seems to be better odds to me.

#12 and #33 I'm sure would be enough to entice him. I'd not personally be happy with it, but who am I??? I've said this since the rumors came out - offer up the Tenn 2nd rounder and a conditional pick for 2018. If Jimmy lights it up, they get a first rounder in 2018. If he sucks it up, a later pick, if anything. I'd amend that to offer #33 and a 2018 conditional pick, or swapping #12 and #32 and a conditional pick. I don't think they'll get more than that.

It sounds like the Patriots are trying to get a massive overpay. An overpay, by its nature, is bad.

If Garoppolo is truly off the market, then there are no good options available (unless Taylor gets cut).

With that said, I am curious to see what we are trying to be in 2017. If we stay with the QBs we have through free agency, then it is clear we are still in "tank" mode. If we go after a veteran QB who has had some success my ears will perk up a little.

It is a horrible thing to say, but I hope we try and sign Cutler. He is the best out of a bunch of bad options.

I'd prefer Mike Glennon over Cutler. I've only watched a couple games he played, but his numbers weren't bad, and he's been sitting behind Winston for two years.


But, with how things are looking, i'm gonna have to start putting some time in on watching Mitch Trubisky on film.......... Glennon too I guess.


EDIT: Completion PCT seems kinda low on Glennon I guess........ Maybe Cody Kessler will make some major strides. For a 3rd rounder, he played pretty well with what he was given. Especially after the line went to hell

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Colin Kaepernick's new agents have informed teams he will be opting out of his contract this week.

Kaepernick can't opt out of his deal until Thursday at the earliest, but it's long been expected that he would choose that route. Despite all of his issues, Kaepernick will be one of the best quarterback options available once he enters the free-agent foray. The Jets have been mentioned as a landing spot.

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter Mar 1 - 9:36 AM

-----------

NOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo

He was rumored to be on our radar last year as someone Hue liked.....

Ian Rapoport
(@RapSheet)
My understanding is #Patriots would not be thrilled now to turn the team over to Jacoby Brissett if Brady is injured. That's Jimmy G's value

1 hour ago

https://twitter.com/RapSheet?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Kaepernick is probably tied for first with Cutler among the best of bad options. I'd take him over Griffin for sure. At least last year he was competent.

I think you misread my shorthand. I said #12+ or #33+, meaning #12+(other picks) OR #33+(other picks). At no point have I suggested #12 and #33. For the record.

Ooh, you're right, I did. My bad.

Some good perspective on the Garoppolo news from Bill Barnwell:



https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/836950224044175361

I would want in this order,

1) Jimmy Garrapolo
2) Mitch Trubisky
3) Deshaun Watson
4) Jay Cutler - On a one year deal only.

I would probably quit watching the Browns if they sign Kap.

me too. he is not somebody I would root for.

I rooted for the Browns when they had Manziel. I could do Kaep. I wouldn't like it. But ugh.

I would put Tyrod Taylor high in that mix and I WOULD NOT take Cutler.

If we don't trade for Garapollo or Tyrod then, I agree with my local dawg, PortlandDawg who suggested Romo on a 1-2 year deal and draft Trubisky or Watson. This could be a temporary but decent move as Romo can come in and win a handful of games for us, teach the team how to win as well as coach/tutor the rookie we draft. The gamble is...Romo is glass and he could be knocked out in game 1 just like RG3 was. Must admit I was anti-Romo but the more I think about this "band-aid" the more I can see its potential upside but, only IF we don't get JG or TT.

I don't think I've ever seen Schefter be so definitive about anything:



https://twitter.com/RyanHannable/status/836973022137442309

Schefter has a pretty sterling reputation, this would be a pretty strange thing for him to say if he wasn't very sure.

Good.

The best and smart move is to get Cutler. There's a number of reasons for this:

1. Cutler would be the best QB the Browns have had since Kosar. In fact, considering Kosar played 13 years and Cutler only 11 so far, Cutler's stats are way better than Kosar, almost double in TD's, almost 10,000 more yds, and a higher QB ranking. The only big difference is playoff games but team make up and ability makes a difference here. A perfect example is Marino, only 1 Super Bowl but can anyone question his ability at QB?

2. Cutler does not have to be signed to a new deal if we trade for him. In fact, it makes more sense to trade than wait for his release. A new deal would most certainly have to be in the 20 million range especially for a 1-year deal and if you really want him. Cutler is only 34 and has 4 years left on his current deal with 15 million due in 2017 and 16 million in 2018. Releasing RGIII and McCown (already gone) frees up over 25 million this year alone. A no brainer if you're looking at just cap costs.

3. If the rumors are true about the possible release of Hayden, then he is perfect trade bait due to Chicago's dire need for CB's. Packaging Hayden and our #33 draft pick for Cutler would be jumped at by Chicago and also free up another 11.2 million this year from Hayden.

4. Out of all of the QB's listed, there is only one QB that has the proven arm and ability to make every throw and that's Cutler. No one can question his ability - the question would be his attitude but that depends who you listen too. If you listen to announcers he has a bad attitude - listen to his teammates and he's a great guy. I'll go with his teammates since that's the ones he's leading - not the press!

5. Trading for Cutler before free agency is huge because it opens up a lot of windows. Cutler will be a drawing card for G Zeitler CIN and free agent WR Jeffery from Chicago. Zeitler is one of the best G's in the game in still in his 20's. Jeffery already has a relationship with Cutler and would give us one of the best receiving corps in the NFL. Starting Pryor, Gordon, and Jeffery with Coleman in the 4 wide out set would just be awesome. Add in a healthy Barnidge at TE and I question any team putting a better receiving corp on the field.

6. Finally, this move would allow the Browns to trade out of the #1 slot. If the Browns are looking at a long range winning football team, then they need to also plan for the future. Trading the #1 overall would get the Browns still 2 picks in the first round this year, two first round picks next year, and a replacement 2nd round pick this year for the pick traded to Chicago for Cutler. This would eliminate the need to even think about drafting a QB this year from what many are claiming is a very weak QB class. With the 11 picks, except for getting a stud RB like Cook or Fournette in the first to split time with Crowell or replace if he leaves, the Browns could focus the other 10 picks purely on defense starting with Humprey from Alabama to replace Hayden. The Browns then could use that added first round pick in 2018 to draft Cutler's replacement from what is being considered a stellar QB class coming out next year. The rookie then would still have a couple of years to learn behind Cutler since he still has 4-years left on his deal.

I say screw these other unproven minimal experienced QB's. We have been down this road too many times the last 25 years - it's time to make a big move with long range plans and become a winner now!