Mayock and most of the analysts have been very vocal in saying this years quarterback class is not good. Most have said none are worthy of a top ten pick. And that all of them represent a gamble as franchise guys.
The echos of these opinions are now all over the place.
Ok I get it. Given the talent at other positions that are in this draft it is probably true that none of the quarterbacks carry a top ten grade.
However, does that mean that none of these quarterbacks will be any good? Or, that none of these guys can be a franchise quarterback?
Last year nobody was talking about Dak Prescott. Many thought Wentz was not be good because of the school he came from.
Let me clear I don't think any of these guys are in the Peyton, Luck class. However, I do believe one or more of the guys in this class could be very good down the road.
Trubisky, Kizer, Watson, and Mahomes all of a chance to make it at the next level. All four carry a second round grade or higher.
They all have NFL potential. They all have pros and cons in their college games. They all have room for improvement. They all have shown ability and high skill levels. Maybe they lack consistency but in today's college game most will lack consistency because most come out early.
I have looked at these guys very closely. They have all flashed potential. They all lack experience.
The big question is how fast can they learn? And who will adapt to the NFL game quickly?
Given that we have the first pick I would love to have a Luck type guy as a clear choice.
At the same time I do believe that there could very well be a gem or two in this class. Just because they don't carry a top ten grade today doesn't mean that all of them will be trash.
At the same time I do believe that there could very well be a gem or two in this class. Just because they don't carry a top ten grade today doesn't mean that all of them will be trash.
Well of course. There's plenty of guys that go later that would go much earlier if people only knew. Would SF have selected Alex Smith over Rogers? Would we have let Rogers slip by us at 3? Same with Derek Carr. Same with Tom Brady. Same with Big Ben. Same with Russell Wilson. And so forth. There's plenty of guys we would have selected if we knew.
The question is, how confident you are in selecting a player. Mitch Trubisky could end up being a stud. We dunno. But the question is, do we feel good enough about him at each of our picks (1, 12, 33, and so forth).
That's the difference between Andrew Luck and Dak Prescott. No one knew Prescott was going to play so well. Not even the Cowboys. He got selected where he did because a team felt good enough about him at their slot htat he was their best option...... And then it just worked out really well.
And that's the difference between us and the Eagles. The Eagles felt that what they were offering us was worth Carson Wentz. They felt that good about him. We clearly didn't. We might have thought the 2 was good enough for him. But not all the picks the Eagles offered. Otherwise, we wouldn't have taken the deal.
The brilliant thing is, considering how meticulous this FO seems to be in terms of draft prep/scenarios, is that they will instigate the 1st domino falling and will be sending out messages to help that position and the outcome they want to achieve.
The article I read on that on the main forum here was fascinating and like Brown says, we have all this time to prepare, so be prepared for anything. After outcomes like the drafting of Weeden and Gilbert, I am only more of a fan of this thorough approach. Known knowns and known unknowns.
All I know is when you quit taking a chance, you have no chance.. Take one till we get it right.. Its not like our other picks recently have been great anyway. Why take a chance on another position when we need the most important piece before we go anywhere. Take a couple .. WTH ! We could take 3 of the top rated QB's in this draft and still fill many holes with other picks.. NO ONE is a sure thing !!!
Let's say the browns fall in love with one of the Qb's and take him #1. How would that influence pick #12?
If we have several prospects ranked about the same, would we be more likely t go defense to "balance things out" or more likely to go oline or Wr to give the #1 overall pick a better supporting cast?
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Greg Cosell of NFL Films examines top combine prospects at quarterback
By Sam Farmer March 2, 2017, 5:30 PM
Greg Cosell, a senior producer for NFL Films, spends much of his life breaking down game footage and evaluating college football players. The nephew of legendary broadcaster Howard Cosell, he’s widely respected in NFL circles for his knowledge of the game. Here, he weighs in on the four top quarterback prospects at the NFL combine:
DeShone Kizer, Notre Dame: “He looks the part. He’s got the size you want, a really good arm. When you watch Kizer there’s a lot of things that you really like. But then there’s an issue when you watch him on tape that he has what we call ‘slow eyes.’ He tends to be a beat late on a lot of throws. If you’re a beat late in college, that just gets exacerbated at the NFL level. That doesn’t mean you’re not going to draft him, but it’s something you need to be aware of and work on. As you build your offense with DeShone Kizer, you have to be aware of certain route concepts and play calls that might make that problem worse.”
Patrick Mahomes, Texas Tech: “He’s got a very good arm. He’s a loose thrower. But he played in the Air Raid offense for Kliff Kingsbury. It’s an offense built on timing and structure and rhythm, and he played with almost no timing and structure and rhythm. He’s really gifted in a lot of areas. But buried under a lot of NFL-type talent is an alarming lack of any refinement for the position at this moment. He’s someone who’s going to need to be coached hard, harnessed. He’s going to have to be receptive to the principles of being a nuanced, disciplined NFL quarterback. The playmaking mentality that he thrived on in college is going to have to be channeled and almost re-trained. He needs to be receptive to that.”
Mitch Trubisky, North Carolina: “There’s a toughness and competitiveness to the way he plays that’s very appealing. For the most part he was safe with the football. But he has a flaw that you have to be careful about. When he throws the ball, he locks his front leg. When you do that, you can’t really drive the ball. So there’s a lot of throws with Trubisky that at the intermediate and deep-intermediate level where the ball loses energy. A lot of those throws in college were successful, they were touchdowns, but they were not throws that will work in the NFL. Normally, guys that are locked-front-leg throwers, that doesn’t change through coaching. It’s just something you have to be aware of.”
Deshaun Watson, Clemson: “He’ll be an intriguing guy because he’s played in a lot of big games and for the most part has had success. Different teams will quantify that differently, but it does mean something. He’s a little smaller than you’d ideally desire. He’ll gain weight to be as rocked-up as he can, so the number on the scale will look good. My guess is he’ll get to 218, 220, but he’s not really a 220-pound guy. He’s a little bit of a placer of the football in the way he throws. He doesn’t really drive the football. So he’s got a good arm, but not the ideal arm you’d like to see. He’s what you’d call an orchestrator and distributor of the football. He’s a point guard. He’ll need weapons around him and a run game. He has enhanced value because he can run. But as far as a thrower from the pocket, you’re going to need to work with him. He’s in some ways like an Alex Smith-type player.”
I've also been impressed by Cosell's work over the years. I'm curious about the remarks he made about Kizer's "slow eyes" and Trubisky's "locked front leg" throwing, and what they mean in the big picture. I also think calling Watson a "point guard" type QB, and comparing him to Alex Smith is pretty faint praise.
I actually think it's a decent class, but there isn't a front line guy imo. Tribisky might be (and I like him alot), but he hasn't started enough games for me to feel comfortable taking one. I look at this class much like I did the Carr/Manziel draft. There might not be a top guy, but at least one of these guys are going to be a pretty good QB......there is too many of them that are in the "good not great" category.
My guess is 5 guys go in the first two rounds......
Tribisky Watson Kizer Mahomes Kayya.
Much like 2014, one of these guys is going to be a very good player. People (including me) crapped all over Carr, and now he is probably the best young QB in the NFL. There isn't a Winston/Mariotta or Goff/Wentz type who is a consensus top 3 pick, but I think there is a decent amount of depth in "good" QB prospects much like 2014. Of course for every Carr you get you also get a Manziel so there is that...lol.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
No disrespect intended, but I think this draft reminds me more of the draft that had Ponder, Gabbert, and Locker than any other. It isn't even close to the Carr/Bridgewater/Manziel/Bortles/Jimmy G draft. That was an excellent class.
I know you were high on it, but at the time it wasn't held in high esteem at all. Bortles went 5 (?) and the next QB picked was Manziel at 22. Bridgewater went late in the 1st and Carr and JG went in the 2nd. I think you are going to see a very simular spread this year.
Tribisky will go top 5, and Watson/Kizer/Mahomes will go very similarly to where those other guys went.
I also respectfully disagree it was a great draft class in 2014. Only one of those guys is considered a long term answer three years later. JG might develop into one, but he hasn't been given a real chance to date. Manziel and Bortles have proven not to be an answer, and Bridgewater will probably never play again.
Without a doubt I think one of these guys will be a very good QB (heck I like Tribisky coming out of college way better than those 14 guys just don't want him at 1), but there are going to be a ton of busts just like 14 as well.
Last edited by BigWillieStyle; 03/04/1701:02 PM.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
Again, I disagree. There was a lot of hype about the QBs that year and I can't remember a year when the QB debate was more intense on this board than that year.
I'm not necessarily talking about what you nor I thought about the class (as the NFL guys don't listen to our opinion unfortunately...lol). I am referring to what the actual teams/scouts thought about them. There were a ton of guys with late 1st/2nd round grades on them (just like this year) but no consensus top guy. I guess what I am saying is that all of them have warts no doubt, but one of them will prove to be a good guy. The Ponder draft you brought up had an NFL MVP in it (Newton), but yeah teams screwed up by over reaching for a QB that wasn't there. Almost every draft will produce a quality starter for someone, but your scouts have to find him, and mainly find where the risk meets the reward.
That is the key for the Browns in this draft imo when it comes to QB....don't reach. I don't want Watson/Kizer at 12 because I don't think either is worth a top 32 pick. However if for some reason they were there at 2/20?? I'm all of that because then the risk is worth the reward. For instance I don't want MT at 1, but if he fell to 12??? I'd be all over that because then the risk is worth the potential reward.
I guess what I am saying is there is never a draft to avoid the QB position if you don't have one, but you also have to be smart about how much of a risk you are going to take in addressing it.
As alway just my opinion.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
Btw, I would rank these guys quite a bit differently than Mayock......
Tribs Watson Mahomes Kayya Kizer
Kizer's performance today only reinforced what I watched this season. His footwork isn't good at all, and he struggles with accuracy. The only one I have a 1st round grade on is Tribisky, but I'm afraid you will have to take him number 1 overall to get him and I'm not comfortable doing so with what he is right now.
Mahomes has the most natural talent imo, but he needs the most work as well. The thing that concerns me about Watson is what Mayock was talking about with him struggling when his first read wasn't there. Kayya is a developmental guy, but he has the ability no doubt.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
Yeah he did and threw well. I've always thought Watson had a good arm though. It's when he's pressured or doesn't have his first read open that his problems begin. So yeah shorts won't show those weaknesses
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
Webb is an intriguing guy for me as well later in the draft. You have to sit him for two years and hope he learns to play under center, but he has talent.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
I like watching the QBs throw. I like seeing how they compare to each other. The guys who stood out for me today were Watson, Trubisky, Mahomes, Kaaya, Kizer, Peterman & Dobbs. In that order. Watson's INT ratio scares the holy bejeezus out of me, but he made all the throws. Trub looked good. Good touch, good arm. I really like Mahomes. He looks comfortable throwing the ball. Kaaya looked decent. Kizer was disappointing connecting to his right. Hard to be too critical given the situation, not knowing the WRs, etc. Peterman looks the part. And Dobbs had a pretty good day.
Overall, some pretty good arms. Good size. Accuracy wavered on the deep routes. Mostly good touch on short to intermediate. To some degree or other their footwork can use work, getting into the drops and setting.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
It would not surprise me if he sneaks into the bottom of the 1st. I hope that he winds up with us. I like him a lot.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Watching the QB's throw today I thought their were 3 QB's that looked the part as 1st round draft picks.
Mitchell Trubisky - Had a very good combine that started with confirmed height as 6'2 1/8. Showed he is a very good athlete for a QB running identical 40 as Watson. Showed the arm strength and touch to make all of the needed NFL throws. As Mayock would say he checked off boxes today for coaches and team scouts. Coming from a spread read option offense almost exclusively taking snaps from the [censored] gun, how will his game transition to the NFL game? Mayock said Mitchell had the best tape of all of the QB class this season but his hesitation to name him the best QB in the class is because he only has 13 college starts under his belt and he just does not feel that is enough body or work to prepare him to run an NFL offense.
Deshaun Watson - The most accomplished QB in the draft class. Watson who has shown during his college career to be a great leader on the field. He led Clemson to a National Title and numerous come from behind victories over his career. He had a great workout today. He showed tremendous accuracy. Some scouts said he did not miss a throw in the whole 1 hour workout. Kinda confirms his ability to step up when the pressure is on him the most. An intangible that the other QB's cannot match. Andy Reid was quote telling the USA today as saying "unbelievable", "every throw was on the money" when asked what he thought of Watson's combine today. Just like Trubisky there will still be many questions how of how another spread read option QB's game will translate to the NFL game.
Patrick Mahomes - Showed amazing arm strength that brought comparisons from Mayock and others to former and current NFL QB's like Brett Favre and Jay Cutler. He also was accurate on his throws with better touch than most expected. The analysts all felt he was fun to watch. Mahomes comes from an Air Raid spread offense that has him exclusively in the shot gun so again another player that will be hard to evaluate how his game will translate to the NFL game.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
The guys that helped themselves today imo were Trubisky, Mahomes, and probably Watson.
I agree with Vers that guys like Webb, Kayla, Kizer, and even Mahomes at times really struggled with their footwork. That isn't surprising as all are spread guys that need to be developed.
I will be shocked if Webb goes before late round 3 because his footwork will need a ton of help. I like him but he's never been under center and is a project. Mahomes has the same issue, but Pat probably goes in the second based on the fact incredible arm talent he has.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
I like Watson a lot. Then again I was a big Manziel guy, the part that makes me angry is people acting like BECAUSE Manziel has a drug issue AND he also beat Alabama that somehow should reflect on Watson.....lmao idiocy.
I read this and I put it with the other things I've seen and read here and my thoughts are that there is zero chance that any of these guys should get picked before Round 2.... and not with the first pick in Rd 2, either.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I concur , but we know there are always teams that REACH, and reach ! .. Of course there are FO,s that think they are smarter than the average Bear's also ..
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