DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Anybody hope we lose out?!?!?!

and one point no ones brought up that i saw .. it doesnt just affect rnd 1 ... it is HUGE in rnds 2 and 3 also and can be HUGE on day 2 ... the difference between drafting 5th and 15th in rnds 2 and 3 is HUGE .... the talent difference may not be as big as in rnd 1 but the POSITIONS are ... at 37 U may have a shot at a REALLY GOOD GAURD where as at 47 he will be gone .... and thats HUGE ...

so its not like this only affects rnd 1 ... it has a HUGE AFFECT on all of day 1 and it carries over to a lesser extent into day 2 ..

But the question of the thread is "Anybody hope we lose out? " That's three losses in three games so we can move up in the draft order. If that's what anyone wants to happen, well then, that's their opinion. It just doesn't happen to be mine.

Not gonna say I hope we lose out..I always want a win..but if we do lose out I won't be mad..
It does mean drafting high in every round.
Add to that if Phil can get some extra picks..

I guess I understand this stance but IMO, there are only 3 players that could land us a nice trade down: Calvin Johnson, Brady Quinn or Joe Thomas. The problem? Even if we lose out, we still won't land that high in the draft order.

Unless something miraculous happens, it looks as though the highest we could climb to is #4. Detroit (2-9), Oakland (2-9) and Tampa (3-9) are probably going to stay in front of us. I know we play Tampa but they have about a zero % chance of traveling to Cleveland in late december and winning, even given how bad we have been playing. There's also 3 others teams hanging around at (4-9) (Houston, Arizona and Washington). I think Arizona may win another game and we still play Houston but given our opponents combined winning percentage ( .534), it will be pretty difficult to move up with teams we tie with in overall record. Not only that but that number is more then likely to go up. Why? Because 3 teams have yet to play us. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Soooooo, if you're cheering for us to lose out (or wouldn't mind seeing it), we need to start cheering for Tampa, Arizona, Houston and Washington to ensure we have a shot at Quinn, Thomas or Johnson so we can either take Thomas or trade down with a team that wants one of those 3 guys.

Tampa is the main team but with a remaining schedule of (@ Chicago, @ Cleveland and Seattle) I don't see another win left on their schedule. Because of that, I'd rather just win......There's no reason to be in no mans land at #4, having to pay a player top 5 money that maybe doesn't deserve (i.e. a rush end, a CB, etc). If we're in the top 5 (and Branch stays at Michigan), then the only justifiable pick (for the money) is RB Adrian Peterson (who I'm kind of on the fence about). Personally, I would rather win out and end up around 11-14. We would get a much better value for our selection (more so if Alan Branch stays at Michigan). JMHO.

If you look at the schedules, the list looks like this...

Lions - 2-11
Raiders - 2-11
Bucs 3-10

then
Browns, Redskins, Cardinals, Texans 4-9.

So assuming the Lions and Raiders finish 1-2 ... the Redskins and Cards (based on their schedule) aren't likely to win another game and we play the Texans and Bucs.....

So let's say (for arguments sake) that we beat the Bucs at home and lose the other two...

Draft order is likely to be

1-2 Lions and Raiders
3 Bucs
4-6 tie between the Browns, Redskins, and Cardinals...

So we could, with very little imagination, draft 4th....

We won't draft 4th. We will beat the Bucs and the Texans and pass a few more teams. Savage will have his work cut out for him again not having a clear cut choice to pick. I will be happy if this happens because I like to win and I believe Savage can come up with another winner for a first round pick.

Nas even if we lose out , even if we are not in the top five, we can still get a impact player..once again this is the draft for Opie to try to move down if he can..aquire more picks if feasible.
I am hoping Branch(DT) and some other jrs come out so the list gets longer and we have better options.
The second/third rounds are critical for the Browns to be picking higher.

[color:"white"] HERE WE GO RATBIRDS HERE WE GO .... [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

OH GOD ..... that made me feel worse than responding to CoachB ... <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Updated draft pool standings


1) Oakland 2 12
1) Detroit 2 12
3) Tampa Bay 3 11
4) Cleveland 4 10
4) Houston 4 10
4) Arizona 4 10
7) Washington 5 9
7) Miami 6 8
7) Green Bay 6 8
7) Minnesota 6 8
7) Carolina 6 8
7) San Francisco 6 8
7) St. Louis 6 8

So, the Browns will not draft any lower than 13. Most probable position I would guess would be between 3 and 9

Oakland (2-12) plays
KC (7-7)
@Jets (8-6)

Detroit (2-12) plays
Chic (12-2)
@Dallas (9-5)

Tampa Bay (3-11) plays
@Cleve (4-10)
Seattle (8-6)

Arizona (4-10) plays
@SF (6-8)
@SD (12-2)

Cleveland (4-10) plays
TB (3-11)
@Hou (4-10)

Houston (4-10) plays
Indy (10-3)
Cleveland (4-10)

Washington (5-9) plays
StL (6-8)
NYG (7-7)

Games to Watch ( I will concede that Oak and Det are proably going to finish worse than the Browns)

AZ @ SF
Tampa @ Cle
StL @ Wash

Cle @ Hou
NYG @ Wash

I think this article from Swerbsblurbs sums it up. The writer of the article does a good job breaking it all down, from what I can tell. We lose both games, we should be sitting 4th, win both, we end up around last years spot. We split and it looks like 7th.

What We Are Playing For
December 18, 2006 ? By Joel Witmer

With two weeks left in the season the Browns have an outside chance at getting the fourth draft pick. In an odd twist, the Browns have great control over their draft fate entering the final two weeks since we play the Texans and Bucs our last two games. Here?s where we stand:
What are we playing for

One more thing, if we get the 4th pick, and if Thomas is gone, there is a good chance that Johnson would be left. Johnson is good enough too get some more picks by trading down, and i agree with the writer of the article on that. I don't ever root for our Browns too lose, but it does give us something too read about, and talk about. If we can't talk about the playoffs, we might as well talk about the thing, that will eventually get us there. Well, in theory, anyways.

Interesting read.

Tell you what....if Johnson is on the board when we draft....our chances of trading don't just increase, we stand the good chance teams will be bidding for his services.....we could get a really sweet deal.....like swapping #1's, a 2nd rounder this year AND a #1 next year. Maybe even better.

There will be 5-6 teams trying to get that kid.

Now you're talkin Bubba, If we could come up with something like that we'd be right there after next year. Unless we blow our picks.

Don't look now...But we're right in the thick of the Joe Thomas sweepstakes!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

Det & Oak have 1 & 2 locked up...

Then comes the good part...Targeting Zona...Which is prolly what we need to do to have Thomas there ain't all that impossible...Looking at the proposed Strength of Schedule for Zona could have them tied with us if we LOSE to TB & Houston...Which with Anderson at QB may just happen...lol...

OUR SOS is gonna go DOWN with our 2 remaining teams to play...All we have to do is TIE records...

These other teams like HOU & TB are also gonna have INCREASED SOS with who they have left...Win or Lose...

We could very well end up THIRD...Which SHOULD land us JT... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Zona has Frisco and SD...SOS will go WAY UP with these 2 being 18-10...Ours goes DOWN with our remaining 2 at 7-21...

DON'T SCREW THIS UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meaningless late season wins do NUTTIN' for a team...So u SULK over New Years and look forward to next year for awhile...BIG DEAL...Deal with the fact u SUCKED IN 2006...

This is prolly our LAST CHANCE to land a TOP LT TALENT!!!!!!!!!

Here's to 4-12...

<img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

Are you confident that Savage would take Thomas if he were available at # 3?

This statement has no regards to any of the above conversation.

For those of you who want the Browns to lose out. The Browns will win these last two games. It wont hurt their draft status that much.

that's an interesting question. The question we need to think about is: how high would somebody like Thomas rate on savage's board.

he's no pace or jones, but folks seem to really be pimping him becuase he's the best one in the draft. In that light, how is he compared to the known greats at the position now, and would he help us more then somebody like branch, who some of us seems to be big need too.

I just hope our first pick is a DL or OL. I don't care which. if it's not, we should get a possie together to berea and stage a big protest.

[color:"white"] Are you confident that Savage would take Thomas if he were available at # 3? [/color]

as confident as I can be ... i see no reason why he wouldn't ... Quyinn will be long gone and hes the only other top guy that we would consider IMO based on our needs/best players in the draft at that position ... there are no DL or LBers slotted that high and the only RB is Peterson ... so that leaves Joe and Peterson ..

and more IMPORTANTLY to answering your question .... let me ask U the following:

1. Are U suggestiong we root for ANOTHER COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS W in Dec so were not heart broken when we dotn; take Joe IF he is available??? .. cause thats just STUPID THINKING in my world ...

2. If Joe were avaiable and anyone else other than Quinn was picked wouldn't that tell us all we need to know about how succesful Opie is gonna be???? personally I'd rather find out sooner as opposed to later .. If Joe's available and Brady aint and we dont take Joe .. were DOOMED till Opies gone or learns ... I'd rather know that now .. wouldn't U?

What's the highest anyone would consider taking Branch at?

To me, I think fans and teams alike worry too much about draft position. We saw that bite us a few times...Merriman comes to mind. Basically, you take the best guy you can who fits the best need wherever you pick, regardless of where Mel Kiper says he should go. Certainly position value should be maximized via trades and whatnot...

if branch is there we'll most likely pick him

What do you folks thing that it would take to move from the 7th slot to the 3rd slot in Rd. 1. Would giving away our 2nd round pick plus our 7th slot pick be enough?

look in the information forum.

It doesn't matter what it costs unless someone is giving the pick away on the cheap.

With all of the holes we have, any trade up isn't worth it IMO.

Thomas would be great, but he isn't even our biggest need. The biggest needs are on the defensive side of the ball.

Our O-line plays better than our D-line

I also adhere to this theory, while any offensive pick from here out should be a lineman. If we can't stop anybody initially, then we can't get the ball to do anything with anyhow,.... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I gotta disagree with you and Peen on this. Our D-line is bad but our O-line is horrible. Granted the individual players might be better than they have showed but it is impossible to compet with no running game and our QBs getting sacked 5 or 6 times a game. I know, its impossible to compet with the opposing RB gaining 300 yards too. Thats why I think we should go O-line , D-line and best O or D-line the rest of the way.

You probably didn't read it, but I answered that earlier in the thread.

I don't think winning these last two games would mean anything for next season, but I am not very sure that Savage and company will make a good pick no matter how high we draft.

I fully understand that you and the rest of the board thinks he has been doing a good job. I have no problem w/that and ain't trying to change your mind. I think he has done a bad job thus far. I hope it gets better, but I ain't holding my breath.

No problem with me, as long as it's one or the other and not Peterson, Smith, Quinn, Johnson, etc, etc, etc,...BPA is complete BS in my book. Unless you just won the Super Bowl.

I don't disagree with BPA nearly any time. I do think the way the draft will fall we will end up with a lineman in round 1....probably defensive.

The thing about BPA.....you usually have 3-4 players about the same rating....so you end up being able to address needs as well.

Dont go there dude .,.. your lumping me in with a group I dotn[ belong in mainly becuase i have never NOT ONCE SAID HES DOING A GOOD JOB .. I thought u were smart? ... cause if u were U surely would know the difference between me saying I UNDERSTAND why he did what he did and will give him some rope as opposed to the BULLSHEET words u wanna put in my mouth ...

I have NOT ONE SINGLE TIME SAID HE IS DOING A GOOD JOB ... NOT ONCE ... so why do u make crap up like that??? ...

are u pi$$ed at me cause I aint ready to throw him under the bus like u are just yet???? Now here I could do to U wnat u just did to me and say U want him fired .. but i wont'; do that ... why?? cause I am smart <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .. and know ther difference between u saying he STINKS and U saying he should be fired ...

hopefully someday you'll understand the difference between I UNDERSTAND what hes doing AND hes doing a GOOD JOB ...

and oh BTW ... so what your saying is that I should root for an ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS WIN OR TWO now so we dont BLOW ANOTHER PICK?? OK .. again .. in my world .. thats just DUMB .... and i dont care what u said earlier .. the words I'm reading now lead me to believe thats where your going ..

oh and one more thing .. Opie has not done near as bad a job as U want to make it out to be ... sorry but he hasn't ...

have a good X-mas bro ... and heres to U someday being as smart as me ... <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

thats a tough one to get your arms around ... I mean thats like saying that 4 day old crap smells worse than 3 and a half day old crap .. once it reaches a certain level of stink .. its hard to differentiate ...

PS. we need 5 OL and 3 DL ... U do the math ... U dont even need to take your shoes and socks off for this one .. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I guess you could look at it that 1 player on the D-line would fix 33% of the problem and 1 on the o-line would fix 20% of the problem.

I guess the $64,000 question is do you start to fix the O-line first because it takes longer or the D-line first because you can fix it sooner?

I guess in the end it is about 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

At any rate, I guess either is a good start.

As long as the pick is a lineman or corner, I won't complain.....at least unless we just pull someone in from leftfield.


That is alot of guessing there <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You are taking what I said too personally. I saw you say something to tab the other day that you think he has the team on the right track. Something about having two or three main pieces in place??? And besides....it doesn't bother me at all if you think he is doing a good job. It's just opinion.



Nope..........not pissed at all. I ain't ready to throw him under the bus yet, either. I simply look at each move he makes and judge it. I also have started to forumulate an opinion on his overall job, but I don't have enough information to make a final one.

You know damn well I don't want him fired. You know I was one of the first ones to bash Butch and was the last one defending him. You probably know I hated when we hired Mo and I was one of the few defending him this year. Hell, I didn't like the RAC hire, and I am already having to defend him. You know me well enough........I bitch about individual moves and don't go ga-ga over every freaking move these guys make, but I stay loyal and give them all the time they need to get the job done.

You smarter than me? LOL...you can't even spell it. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Nah........I hope we lose both and we get a higher choice. And then I hope Savage proves me wrong and makes a good pick...or even trades down. You know that I am a big fan of trading down. Hell, I would even settle for him getting lucky. This team will gain nothing by winning the last two games or one of the two. They have had a dreadful season and there is very little to build on, despite what some might try and tell us.

In fact, I think there is less hope after this year than after last year. And........ [color:"white"] it has absolutely nothing to do w/the record. [/color] It's the fact that we are another year behind in building a solid offensive line and have again neglected the d-line that is getting old fast.

And let me tell you something. If Opie drafts, trades for, or give free agent money to another freaking wide receiver.....I'm going to kick his ass. Maybe yours, too. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We've spent high pics on the DL (let's include last year's #1 there too since he's usually on the line).
It's high time to work on the OL with some 1st day stuff.
I can't hold my breath much longer waiting for an OL pick.

Yes...I am...

He's said before that the LT spot is almost a Skill Position...Now we have one in Thomas that fits that mold...And he'll go high...REAL HIGH...Great feet...Tall...Long wing span...Superb pass protector...Solid run blocker...

As Diam said...No LB or DL should even sniff the top 6 or 7...Branch is a good one but I'd bet we have him SECOND on a NEED Board...Thomas FIRST...And Branch I'd bet is about 7 on a BPA Board...

The kid I'm AFRAID of is Calvin Johnson WR...

If we leave Thomas on the board for a WR this place will go BERZERK...

Question FOR YOU...

If we sit at 3 and Zona at 4...Would u trade down to 4 for a 2nd rounder and let Thomas go???

Many would.

I might not want a wr, but Johnson is going to be a great player and wouldn't be that upset.

Plus.....if Johnson is somehow there when we pick(which he won't) half the league will be lined up for trade talks.

I would rather trade either Thomas or Johnson for picks if given the chance.

As you know, I preach that we should trade down every year. I have always felt that you get more than you give up. Translation....the draft value chart is inaccurate. Add in the fact that this team has always had so many needs and you can see why I have wanted to trade down.

With that said.........I would take Thomas if he was available. He would not be a reach and he fills a major need. I'd take him in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I think we will win one of these last two games. Just enough to put us out of the Thomas sweepstakes.

This is going to be a big year for your boy, Savage. I haven't been impressed at all. Like I said......I don't want him fired, but he needs to start doing a better job. Enough w/the Edwards, Pools, Wilsons, and Perkins. Enough w/signing the Shaffers and Baxters to huge contracts. Enough w/trading two d-linemen for a freaking slow rb. Enough w/trading a a 4th rd. pick for a qb and then trading that qb for Dorsey...a 7th rd. choice. His moves have sucked and I'm tired of hearing the excuses and BS.

Just..........Get it Done!

Yeah...I believe Quinn & Johnson are 1-2 Locks...

Say Savage loves Peterson...

Peterson RB
Okoye NT 6' 315...AWESOME
Sears or Staley OT's
Beekman OG 6' 2" 325

For a CHANCE to get an Okoye AND a Staley/Sears...I'd seriously consider that move down...

That's an A++++++ Draft for Kiper to smooge about...

Some concerns about Petersons agility...Much like McAllister...But the kid has SUPERSTUD written all over em'...But ya' GOTTA beef up the OL...It takes COMMITMENT...

2 of the 1st 4 picks commited to OL...3 of 4 to the trenches...AND SIGN A DAMN STEINBACH/DAVIS/MANUWAI...

300lb DT's to move outside in a 3-4 can be found in round 4...

To that question.....probably.

I haven't seen Wisconsin play a single game this year, so I don't really know how good Thomas really is.....at least in my eyes.

I guess it also depends who else was on the board and how we had them rated.....but in a general sense....I would make that trade.

A guy like Gaines Adams and a high 2nd round pick would probably make you a overall better team than Thomas alone.

I myself am not that big on Peterson......plus...the next few years are going to be great drafts for backs...


I really hope we skip a back this year....at least before maybe round 5.

I don't like to single positions because that hints at not looking at BPA, which I basically agree with as a draft foundation......however <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...I really, really, hope we walk out of day one with a DL.,OL.,CB.

And....if the corner isn't the first rounder....just skip that and walk out with a DL, and 2 Oline.

A 1st round D-line and 2 top guard prospects in the next two rounds would sit well with me.


Trade down to around 10......Blaylock is my lock.