DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft The quarterback draft class of 2017

I could talk at length about why false equivalence is a real problem in all facets of life with real consequences....but ill keep it football and say i agree

I thought Webb looked pretty good. I think his footwork was much improved, and if I remember right, I'm pretty sure one of the announcers said that too, "his footwork was better then I expected". Possibly Mayock. Everyone there, Mayock, Carr, Olson, were all impressed with the way the ball came out of his hands. Threw hard, they said, live arm.

Some folks say every year that there are no good quarterbacks in the draft. They've reviewed film and detected a fatal flaw. I don't pretend to know, but we need one and we have to keep trying. I like Trubisky. If Hue does too, he should take him at No. 1. He's got the arm, he's a leader, he is a local boy and he sure looks the part to me. We have to solve the QB problem. We'll still have a high first round pick. It is never going to line up better than this.

Some folks overvalue QBs in the draft every single year and hype them up and act like they are going to be better than they ever will be.

It's this reasoning that ends you up with a Ponder/Gabbert type player and a fired coach 3 years later.

If there was a Winston, Mariota, Luck, Stafford, Ryan, etc type QB ... it would be obvious.

Since it's not obvious, just draft Garrett. He fills a need. He's the best talent. He's the 2nd most important position. He's a sure-shot top tier player

For sure - there will be good starting NFL QB's in this years draft .... somewhere. Trubisky isn't more or less likely to succeed because you reach for him and take him #1 when most scouts have a mid or late first round grade.

It's not about just taking a QB high in the draft - it's about making the RIGHT choice. Acting desperately and over-reaching for players is the reason why the Browns have been so bad for so long .... actually they have just been pathetic with so many of their drafts.

Garrett is the #1 pick because not only is he a player at a high impact position - 2nd only to QB - he also has an insane ceiling. He's the best and least risk choice at #1 .... why would anyone not pick him????

We have enough picks to package something together to help us move up in 2018 draft. Take Garrett or Allen at #1. If we don't get JG, still draft somebody this year but, also trade down at 12 to secure enough currency to help move us up next year to draft somebody in what everybody deems a better QB class.

From what I've been reading Mahomes is about as good as any QB in this class. I would go D with our 1st round picks and then consider a QB in the 2nd or 3rd depending on how we have the players ranked. Take the best talent with our #1's. Do something different for a change.

Man, Mahomes did not impress me at all. He had so many inaccurate throws. He was throwing the out patterns to the inside of the WRs. Those are pick 6s in the NFL.

He makes great plays, but also a ton of bad plays. I hope he is someone else's project.

Vers. Did you or anyone see Trubisky and this Locked Front Leg Cosell is talking about?

I HATE this kinda reasoning.

You best hope teams drafting 1-2-3 Don't need a QB also.

The best QB in this draft has, and will always be Watson.

I was leaning away from that idea - and that's mostly because I don't want a QB who is inclined to take off running. But he impressed me in the Natl Championship game now end ... really hard to underestimate how well I thought he played to win that game. . . . and he really threw the ball well a the combine.

#12 I'd be okay using it on him at this stage ... but I doubt he is there and I am not using a #1 on him

yea none of the QB's should be taken with the #1, but if he's there at 12, it would be hard to not pull the trigger.

of course that all depends on what we do with the QB position during FA

No, I did not. I'll watch some tape and see later on.

If true, it's a problem. I know it was one of my biggest knocks on Mettenberger when he was a hot prospect a few years ago. steve used to joke about me saying "stiff leg." LOL

Yep. I saw that article yesterday.

It all depends on how Hue views the QBs in this draft and if the guy he REALLY wants is a rookie this year, FA this year or still in college and expected to enter the draft next year.

I think he meant when Trub was throwing the ball at the Combine or on tape.

If the Browns take anyone but MG. they are NUTS !

I think I take Garrett to start and then more D until late 2nd or early 3rd then take D Webb. He has the size and arm for our devision. He would be a project but Tyrod and Watson are just RG3 and Trub will be gone.
What I really want is Jimmy G. But thats not looking good. I offer Belly our 12 and everything above 3rd round.

I am with you on JG. Garrett/Allen (MG now the obvious #1) at 1 and JG with 12 would make me excited. I was impressed with Peppers Combine too. Probably wont be there at 33 tho.

Can't say I agree that Tyrod is "just RG3". I think he's an upgrade for sure.......

Do I think he's the long-term answer? No. But he's definitely a step up from RG3 (or at least the little bit of RG3 we saw last year).

J/c

I think the OP was talking about a distinction that is often lost in all the draftnik media babel about QBs.

The difference between ranking/evaluation and talent.

All these QBs have talent. What they do with their talent is a unknown.
The actual physical trait differences between a 1st round QB isn't a wide as the difference in where a 1st round QB gets drafted vs an UDFA. Usually there's only about 7ish QBs taken per draft class. And again they all have talent. Its why an UDFA like Romo can become a franchise QB.

But ranking is about using historical data points and quantification of on the field observation of a set list of criteria. Ranking/evaluation should be objective. For example Parcell's has his famous criteria some have height, hand size, college production etc.

A quick and dirty example lets say you have a QB with 3 years of outstanding production that is 6'4 and 240 lbs with plus level arm talent will rank/be evaluated with a higher grade then a QB with 2 years of outstanding production that is 6'2 and 230 lbs with almost plus level arm.
That is not to say that QB 2 won't be better then QB 1. There is no way to predict. However based on the criteria we can say that QB 1 ranks or has a higher evaluation then QB 1.

Saying this QB class doesn't have 1st round grades doesn't mean they lack talent or that they can't become franchise QBs. It just means they don't hit enough point on the criteria to warrant a 1st round grade (even though some will go in the 1st round like every year).

Two excellent statements. Well said.

Just based on combines soley
Kizer looked undraftable
Watson, Trubisky and Webb all 3 looked like top 15 talent and Mahomes not far behind them.

BTW Webb who I watched pretty closely at senior bowl really came a long way in a short time. When the Browns coaches compare their notes from what he was to what they showed him and improvement made, he is really gonna jump off the page. The Hue/Cal ties and the Hue/Senior Bowl/ Webb gotme thinking.

I still believe we go Jimmy G but Webb making a case for himself.

I'm assuming you posted these for comment/discussion.....
I think you are being hyperbolic and I don't understand what you mean by soley on the combine? You mean if you base the combine performance against combine performances of other QBs? I guess I don't really get what you are trying to say but.....

I agree that Kizer didn't throw the ball well.
I agree that Watson and Mitch threw the ball the best.

Disagree about Webb being close to Watson/Mitch.

I had the exact opposite thoughts on Webb. I thought he threw the ball much better at the SB both in practices and in the game. At the SB he looked much better then Peterman and the revise happened at the combine.

Top part of my post was based solely upon what I saw from the combines without influence of gametape.

On Kizer I wasnt being Hyperbolic at all. He was taking 7 step drops instead of 5. He took half steps. The ball didnt come out clean. He was just inconsistent with both release and feet. Kizer looked like a Clydesdale in a ballet. Now thats your Hyperbole. lol



On Webb in comparison to senior bowl practice. Actually, I was referring primarily to footwork and lower body mechanics. I thought Webb looked a lot more natural with his drop and pop. I thought the ball came out really well with webb and he showed off arm talent as well as solid ball placement. Even his upper mechanics I thought improved. The ball was held high and to his ear, he rolled that shoulder the ball came out clean and hot.

anyway, great to see all these QBs competing head to head in that 2nd group. I was actually surprised they looked as good as they did other than Trubisky.

And to think that Memphis gets frustrated w/me.

combine interviews

This an interesting experiment. Give me you guys opinions of these guys. There is a lot you can see not only in how their playstyles shows in their personality but also how they process information.

Mayock(pretty sure it was Mayock) even mentioned on air that his footwork was much better.

Deshaun Watson will be a star, reminds me of Russel Wilson with + skills.

Mitch is really raw, will need more time to adapt and mature and deal with the media

Kizer, I never liked him. ND bias

Mahomes doesn't look prepared to the spotlight, much lick Mitch

All and all, no comparison between Deshaun and all the other QB's, he just stands tall in the comparison.

A guy who averaged more than 1 pick a game last year (in college) when he had a *lot* more talent than his opponents has more skills than Russell Wilson?

More Skills coming out of college, yes I think so.

IMHO, the Int stat has to be complemented with other stats. Are the Ints reckless playing, playing stile, etc

Many HOF QB's were prone to Ints, it was theire play style Favre for instance. Other QB's produce Ints because of problems with decision making, Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn comes to my mind.

Deshaun had 8 Tds and 1 Int against Alabama, for example...

The stat alone tells you nothing. TD/INTS vs W/L for example is much more instructive, and guess what, Deshaun was on 2 championship games, so the number of wins must be impressive...

But all and all I was not talking about game skills, but media, and in that regard Watson looks like he has better handling of the press than Wilson did.


All and all, IMHO there is no comparison between Deshaun and the other QB's in this draft, in my opinion he is clearly the 2nd best player in this draft.

I was comparing Russell Wilson with Watson college stats, and they are not that far away.

Comp % RW: 60.9 DW: 67.4
Y/A RW: 7.9 DW: 8.4
TD/INT RW: 147.2 DW: 157.5 -> 109/30 vs 90/32


So yes, for me Watson style is Wilsonesq... only a bigger Wilson but less accurate and with better arm.

Russell Wilson played in a pro style offense in college, that's why he was ready so early, Watson plays in the spread where most if not all Qb's have struggled.

Russell Wilson wasn't even as good as Mike Glennon in college.

He was ready because he was good. Brady Quinn the most pro-ready QB in the draft never could play on the NFL.

There are many good QB's comming from spread offense. Dak for example....

From the reactions I've seen from DW under pressure, I think he will project well into the NFL style.

IMHO, we will see him play for the Bears and probably the OROY, and MG the DROY... I hope in brown and orange, but suspect we will trade down...

There is so much misinformation posted on message boards.