DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Anybody hope we lose out?!?!?!

[color:"white"]Nope, didn't suggest you said Okoye in the 1st <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Don't ya hate losing context in translation......[/color]

As much as I like Joe Thomas and the thought of upgrading our offensive line, Peterson is still the top player on my board because of the dimension he adds to our running game that an offensive lineman simply can't.

I look at our offense with Joe Thomas and a free agent running back (most likely, a has-been like Chris Brown) and we'll definitely be better protected in both the passing and running game, but we're still a bland offense. When I watched Droughns versus Tampa this week, I thought that he had a pretty decent game, but then I thought that if we had an explosive back, we probably could've run for 150. The way I see it, Thomas adds more consistency to our blocking schemes, but no playmaking ability.

The opposite is true with Peterson and filling line spots through free agency and non-1st round picks. Going with Peterson means that we're going to have Shaffer as our LT for another year (which I personally don't mind all that much) and that we won't be as solid on our line as we would've been with Thomas, but it would give us a huge threat in the backfield where one was missing previously. Peterson is not only as good or better of a power runner than Droughns, he also has great speed and moves. Our longest run from scrimmage this year is 33 yards... by Derek Anderson... We need someone in our running game who can make the most of what we give him, especially because our passing offense is so conservative and our current rushing offense can't go outside of the tackles because of the lack of all around speed.

Like I said before, don't get me wrong - if we draft Thomas, I'll be fine with it. I just think our team would be better off adding another playmaker like Peterson and addressing our line elsewhere, rather than bolstering line first and line last, only to realize that the players we put behind the line aren't up to snuff and that we're in for another year of vanilla, predictable offense.

I'm not so sure what Savage thinks of Shaffer has squat to do with anything concerning Thomas...

Thomas is light years beyond Shaffer in talent for the LT spot...U just don't pass on that when u have a chance to upgrade...Shaffer would easily slide over to RT and we've got 2 YOUNG Tackles...Although one isn't top tier...U still have bookends for quite sometime...

There isn't many teams with Top Tier Tackles on both sides...

That's the kinda move Diam's relating to getting a Shaffer type DOWN to the 4th/5th best on an OL...Personally I don't want my RT the 5th best on my line...But that's me and it's a scenario in itself anyways...We get Shaffer down to the 5th best on this line and it ain't even close that we've got the STUD line of the 21st century...lol...

We've got the 3 pick LOCKED if we just don't pull some BS outta our ass Sunday...We're NINE percentage points ahead of TB right now...That ain't easy to make up for TB...And Detroit's gotta 17% SOS lead on Oakland...1-2-3 is SET when all 3 of us lose Sunday...

2 of 5 line spots are set with Thomas being the pick...Tucker's gotta go...It's just time...

Now u gotta look at the C spot...Bentley won't be back for the start of the season...My guess is MID SEASON...So what do we do with the C spot???...I'd bet money that Fraley goes via FA...I don't believe we'll offer him anything near what the market will pay him...Simply because he'll take a back seat to Bents when he's back...

Enter Rob Smith...And I'm fine with Smith keeping the seat warm for Bents...

So there's THREE with ONE draft pick...

Now come the GUARDS...

THIS is where our HIGH pick will come into fruition in Round 3...It happens every single year...A top notch Guard hits round 3...And we're REAL HIGH in this round...A Beekman of BC or a Ramirez of TT should be sittin' there...Coupling one of these guys with a 4th in Sowells and a 3 pick in Thomas is setting us well on our way in OL investment for the future...And SHOULD appease Vers...lol...

Enter ONE FA GUARD...And now that Manuwai is OFF the table...Go get Leonard Davis from Denny Green in Zona...U stick this FAT KAT at RG and have him sitting waiting for Bents to return...This dude is YOUNG still and is borderline an IMMOVEABLE PIECE OF LAND!!!!!

We get a line of

Thomas
Sowells
Bentley
Davis
Shaffer

With a guy like Beekman/Ramirez behind em' and we're well on our way...

Thomas a 3 pick investment
Davis a FA investment
Beekman/Ramirez a 3rd round investment

Gives us a HIGH 2 and a HIGH 4 to attack the DL and get another OLB...

We've got lotsa bucks again this year to go invest in 2 TOP NOTCH players in a Davis and Clements/Samuel...Get those 3 SOB's in here on DAY ONE of FA and I don't give a damn how much u pay em'...SIGN EM' LONG TERM...

That type of gameplan will get us ALOT CLOSER...ALOT QUICKER...

I agree with you in that respect.

It also depends on how the Browns draft board falls. I can't imagine Thomas being very low on the board, but you never know who might be higher.

I myself look at how a player will impact a team. Would Thomas impact the team more than Branch??(assuming both are top level talent)

My opinion is the DT would bring more to the table.

To be honest, I would rather see Johnson there and look for a trade down....maybe a guy like Brohm comes out and someone decides they have to have him....or maybe we want him and just want to drop 4-5 slots before we take him.(I hope not)

Whatever we do, the guy better be a starter from the opening kick.

j/c

There are a lot of good posts concerning what we do in the draft. I'm no draft expert, but I'll add a few thoughts:

I understand the logic of Detroit and Oakland taking the QB and WR, but I think that would be foolish. Here's why--

--Detroit's offense has a lot of skill players. They have drafted offensive skill players for years. Harrington, Jones, Williams, Williams, Rogers, etc. Where has that got them? I disagree that their defense has been the biggest problem. Their biggest probllem has been their offensive line. It's bad...real bad. And it doesn't allow those skill players to be as productive as they should be. Therefore, I can't say it is a lock that they would pass on Thomas.

---Oakland has the worst o-line in the NFL. If they took a QB or a WR, they should be shot. I do understand that they might be gun-shy after Gallery. But man...when you watch them play, it is extremely evident that they need to upgrade the offensive line first and foremost, and Thomas happens to be the top ranked offensivve limeman on the board.

The next interesting topic is what Savage will do w/the pick. It appears that most of us recognize that our number one need is improving the offensive line. I wonder if Savage feels the same way. He has shown that he places a lot of importance on offensive skill players. He has been more successful when he has chosen defensive players. And Toad...I am really worried that the signing of Shaffer last year to such huge money ----Sheesh...and Bentley too---that he might NOT want to address the OL so high.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I just don't trust Savage to make the right choice. I hope he does. And if he does, it would go a long way towards proving that he might actually be half as smart as all of you think he is.

I think his first draft is going to prove to be one of the worst in our history, especially when you consider where we were picking. His second draft was leaps and bounds better than the first. It ain't even close, but he still chose a WR in rd. 3 and ignored both lines. I just don't have a lot of confidence in the guy right now. I hope he changes my opinion of him, because I am firmly convinced on how to build a football team....and it isn't from the outside -- in.

Notes:

nas---------I knock Leon for dropping passes, and I know it is more than 8. Who keeps that stat? The team? But anyway, my biggest knock on Leon is that he is a head case. He is a me player. He calls out teammates...more than once. He hasn't learned the playbook. He criticizes the organization. He's late for meetings. He runs poor routes. His teammates can't stand him. In short, he is an ass! Yes, he does have good numbers. He has incredible talent. He has the potential to be an excellent WR, but he will never realize that potential until he changes his entire mental make-up. It was a bad pick by Savage. Man, what we could have done w/that pick.

Diam: You have the disturbing habit of resorting to name-calling and making insults when someone refutes your opinions. And you are telling me to grow up? <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Not to argue....I really am not....but IS Oline the biggest need??

Could it be said D-line is a bigger need?


You factor in some of what you said about Savage and the investment we have made on the O-line and it doesn't take me long to think he might go in a different direction.

OK...This goes right down to the BPA thinking...And it's what almost ALL GM's think...Minus Millen of course...

Branch is not gonna be a top 4 candidate...Not with Quinn/Thomas/Johnson/Peterson around...

U go BPA and at 3 TWO of those FOUR will be there...

The talent in those 4 are equal if u ask me...So u take one...

We NEED em' ALL...

And won't it blow your minds if we took Johnson to go with Edwards???...LOL...Not far fetched folks...Jurevicious is how old???

Det--Quinn
Oak--Thomas
Cleve--Johnson

Well.. I think OLine is the bigger priority, but I'm not sure that means it is what gets addressed first. What happens in FA can determine what happens in the first round.

Having said that.. one could successfully argue that the maxim "Stop the run and establish the run" should be done in that order.. which would lend itself to bolstering Peen's argument.

DnD..

What you propose is ENTIRELY possible. Savagae may indeed pick Johnson..

IF.. he feels that he can successfully do something with Shaffer. That takes the pressure off him from that direction and allows him to make the case for BPA at our pick. (Not only that, we don't know how fed up they are at Berea with Braylon. They might be steamed as hell... course I digress..)

Like I said, if he feels this way, then he can tell himself there is enough OG and NT talent in the draft in the 2nd and 3rd rounds to allow him to take Johnson.

Personally, I call that Rationalization and Career Suicide.. but thats just me LOL..

I really hope Johnson is there when we pick. Next to possibly Quinn at QB, Johnson will have several teams who want him and we should have a decent shot at finding a trade partner.

In my ideal world, we find a way to drop to around 10 where we can justify drafting Blaylock in round 1 and pick up another late 1st, early 2nd round pick.

I am all for speeding up the process to winning football, and the only way to do that is to get more players.

Thomas would be a great pick, but to be honest, I don't know how that one part would speed up anything. I am not putting the kid down in any way nor saying we shouldn't take him, but from my point of view, a player like Blaylock AND another early pick(have to assume he is at least decent) would have more impact on this team than would Thomas.

But you are right....you have to look at BPA and how the board shapes up.

Take Johnson...I can't say I don't want him even though I don't really want the position....how can you say you don't want a great player??

It is going to be an interesting several months...and as you said earlier....FA has a major impact on the draft in so far as it changes what are considered needs. What are needs today may be fixed come March when players start signing with new teams.

Some good posts and a lot of thinking.. this question is one I have asked..

Vers: [color:"red"]Are you confident that Savage would take Thomas if he were available at # 3?
[/color]

I am torn a bit..if it were me..YES I'D TAKE Thomas..now thats initially..because if i had a chance to trade down and garner a second rd pick I'd be tempted to do it..and then I'd take the next best OT and grab the best OG I could either rd 2 or 3 ...
DND: [color:"red"] Say Savage loves Peterson...

Peterson RB
Okoye NT 6' 315...AWESOME
Sears or Staley OT's
Beekman OG 6' 2" 325

For a CHANCE to get an Okoye AND a Staley/Sears...I'd seriously consider that move down...

That's an A++++++ Draft for Kiper to smooge about...
[/color]
Hmmm lets say Opie took Peterson ..not that I want that..but in the second the better selection is Sears..WHY? He's played EVERY position on the Vols oline..except center...
Personally if we trade down, I want Branch..he's the plug in for Ted at NT.
OKOYE...or Kareem Brown..6' 5 315...good run stuffer, very strong..he's likely to be there in the third round..
Don't forget we need a CB also..
I believe U said let Smith play center (Opie might let Fraely walk due to LB coming back in 08)..that might work..Smith played well in preseason..that also may not work in Phils mind.

Overtoad: [color:"red"] I can't begin to guess the 2nd rounder at this point. As you pointed out, the selection of Thomas depends on the opinion of Shaffer (though I think that cat has left the bag), so the 2nd selection depends on the first, and I'm allready dizzy
I don't know how you feel about Shaffer. I'm sure you've said at some point, but I can't recall your stance. When we signed him I said I viewed him as a stop-gap who's really a right tackle-in-waiting for when Tucker hangs it up. Now that we've seen him for a year, my opinion is still the same on the move, though I don't view him as being nearly powerful enough to be a really good right tackle. I now believe that a move to RT can only salvage the value of the contract, nothing more. [/color]
If Opie gets Thomas..U could put the kid at RT..or the better move is plug him in at LT , place Shaffer at RT ..and if Tucker comes back slide in inside..thats my initial reaction without a lot of thought in it.
I won't comment on Diam vs Vers..it's like SPY vs SPY .. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[color:"GOLD"]What is Peterson's injury history?...anyone know? [/color]

Nicks and dings..the collarbone injury was because he played Superman and dove into the endzone..clown.. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

He was sidelined for about 4 games, though he actually only missed one game last year, mid-year with an ankle sprain. Besides the collar bone, that's all I recall.

j/c

What scares me the most is we may be once again on the outside looking in for a trading partner. Alot will depend on how well Savage is able to sell his selection. I can see Arizona making a move to jump us and get Thomas. Then most teams will either a be happy and move in below us as we either take the hurt RB or Branch. If we have both Quinn off the board along with Thomas when we select Johnson is probably are best bait to make a trade but everyone knows we have WR's coming out our eyeballs, we dont make a good trade partner when they can just come in below us.
You want to see the Browns luck with dance partners improve we need T Smith to win the title and just WOW everyone at the combine. Thats our best hope. Of course then everyone and their brother will be screaming to draft him here so its another lose/lose prospect on our draft.

[color:"white"]
I could easily be way off base with what I believed happened, but I felt that there just weren't any left tackles to be had, so he gave Shaffer big money to hold down the LT spot until we could find a suitable replacement. You probably remember me saying that when we signed him. Afterall, that stiff Shelton turned down our offer to sign a bigger deal with the Dolphins, and he's been so bad that they've bumped him into guard and moved Mcintosh out to tackle. That tells us all that there just weren't any decent LT's to be had. Shelton has yet again been part of their problem, and gave up a sack last night.

So, in my questionable opinion, Shaffer was signed to play LT in '06, but was looked upon as a guy who was going to shift over when Tucker was done. I really wish I could locate the quote where Opie suggested that Shaffer was a cadidate to be moved. Maybe you'll remember that as well. So here we are, and Tucker is essentially done. Even if he does come back, he's clearly on the downside, so a logical conclusion is that it's now time for Shaffer to move over. In that regard, his contract essentially becomes the equivelent of what Tucker signed a couple of years ago when one takes the value of the contract compared to the inflated salaries in the '08 and '09 seasons.

I know that's alot to swallow, but it's worth considering.

I know where you're coming from regarding Opie's apparent decisions to take skill players or guys away from the lines. My only saving grace in that regard is that I can appreciate how he went about this. He took guys that were rated highly and filled immediate holes. We've debated and chewed that philosophy ad-nauseum. BUT, here's where I straddle the line: There aren't any legitimate reasons left to ignore both lines. If he doesn't get Thomas or Branch, but instead goes for another position, all I have to say is that he better damned well have a plan for fixing one of the lines COMPLETELY, or he should be fired.

I'm this close to falling in line with you here. I understood why he did what he's done, but I think the time for fixing the lines is here and now. We could beat the Texans like we did a couple of years ago and miss out on Thomas, but Branch would probably still be there. It seems like common sense to us, so I can only assume it's common sense to Savage. If it's not.......I don't want to consider that possibility.....[/color]

[color:"red"] I really wish I could locate the quote where Opie suggested that Shaffer was a cadidate to be moved. [/color]
There was???
I surely don't recall ever hearing or reading that.
Not calling U out but my impression was that he looked at Shaffer as a LT for several years to come.
Thats my concern...if he doesn't view Shaffer as that fix then we can expect a LT here ..and should we not get Thomas for some reason OTHER than he bypassed him, then I look at Branch..in fact I wonder if BOTH sit there, which one he'd pull the trigger on..

[color:"white"]No worries. I didn't take it as such.

No, the quote went something like this: "Shaffer is our left tackle..for now."

I can't emphasize enough that such a thing isn't an EXACT quote, but it was very close to that. The insinuation was that Shaffer may not be the long-term player at left tackle.

It made it's way to this board. I would hope someone would remember such a thing...[/color]

In all honesty, I think Branch will be 2nd or 3rd on our draft board. The guy is an absolute freak of nature.

As I've said before......there are very few guys on planet earth that are 6'6'' 330 LBS, let alone one that is as athletic and as skilled as Branch. Most guys that size are big fat slobs, not nimble, nasty, high motor, high effort players. The guy played DE at that size his sophmore year and racked up 5 sacks and 10 TFL. I know we desperately need offensive lineman but there are guys in every draft at OT that seem to be "franchise" guys, there are VERY few prototype DT's that fit in to the 3-4 like Branch does.

I don't want to ignore the OL but in all honesty, I think Branch in round 1 and an OG in round 2 helps us a hell of a lot more then the other way around. Branch is ready to play right now and in my opinion, I think he's the best NFL ready player to come out of Michigan in the last 10+ years. Maybe that sounds outrageous but I honestly believe it. LaMaar Woodley is a great player but the reason he had a majority of the 1 on 1 match-ups he did was because of Branch's presence inside. Our run defense and pass rush is absolutely horrible, I mean pathetic.....Branch can play DE and DT both, having a hybrid player like that in the 3-4 is what makes it work. Dominant guys up front allow the LB's to run sideline to sideline. Hell, imagine Branch collapsing the OT while Wimbley rushes off the edge. Talk about a headache for opposing teams.


I absolutely love Johnson but if that is how the draft plays out (Quinn, Thomas 1-2) we better be bailing out of our selecton. Someone covets Johnson and will pay out the *** to get him. The only problem is we don't have a lot of leverage. We just took BE 2 years ago so teams may try to low ball us. If Savage really wants to land a big trade down he may really have to roll the dice, take Johnson and sit on the selection untill someone gives up what we're looking for. The problem? If we don't swing a trade in such a scenario, we're stuck with a WR and lose out on both the #1 OT and #1 DT.........and with the current state of our DL and OL, we honestly just can't afford it.

It did make it's way here..I PRINTED it <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
His quote was :" Shaffer is our LT right now".

It was from a recent presser..and yes one could take it that way..

I remember the quote and you're pretty darn close to what he said.... it's from Opie's last presser, part of the one where he came out to hush all the "Fire RAC" crap of a couple weeks ago. Opie has also at least once stated that he got Shaffer because he was the best of what we could get as Shelton wasn't coming back and he knew we had no shot in hell at D'Brick.

Also, if you look at the structure of Shaffer's salaries, he's only really highly paid for '06 & '07, then the numbers fall to be more in line with a really well paid Guard.... or average pay for a Right Tackle.

He wasn't diving into the end zone, he was busting butt to the end zone, got tripped up and tried to push himself forward. He landed awkwardly and the rest is history.

Same difference <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />..he dove into the endzone..risky stuff...I happen to like the kid..

Well, it's mainly just pessism.

When I consider the human nature angle, is Savage going to admit he was wrong about Shaeffer?

I know the team should always come first and these types of questions shouldn't even enter the picture.

However, we cannot deny that they do.

Savage and Company made a pretty big deal about this signing and about how much upside this guy had. And let's not forget they gave him a lot of money.


Yes, agree with all of this.


Well, the truth is we just don't know what 'most people' in the organization actually think of him.

We can interpret Opie's statements from his presser a while back, but the truth is we really don't know. 'Most people' - I assume - means many of us on this board.

We both know that really don't mean much at all.

Imagine all the decision makers sitting in a room. Half the room is divided on Schaeffer. Opie's camp is saying he just needs better guard play because Opie is really hoping this move pans out like he thought it would. Crennel's camp is saying the guy just ain't got it. Guess what? One side has to win out over the other.

Maybe this is far-fetched. Maybe it's not. Think about the thousands of eyes on this board alone that see the exact same thing differently.

It's not unreasonable to think that could happen within the organization as well.

Then you add the human factor of not wanting to be wrong and well, I just don't think it's set in stone that we take Thomas if he is there.


I really agree with this line of thinking and the logic here. If we were in the room together, we might be in the same camp.

But I just have a feeling if it plays the way you think with these same guys on the board when we pick, I think we take Peterson.

This is nothing more than gut feeling really.

But just as logically as you laid out reasons for selecting Thomas, I'm sure someone in the Browns organization can come up with just as logical a reason to take someone different.

For the Browns to pass onThomas if he's there , it would have to be the result of several things..
One they get a can't pass up offer to trade down or,
There's another immediate impact player Rac truely wants more(Branch)..or
Phil is actually pleased with Shaffer at LT..in which case I'll hear morter shells coming from Bera... <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]

That's a very key point to it all, and to a degree, I think Savage made his answer by saying Shaffer is the left tackle "right now." That exposes the thought that he's going to be moved, which is what we've (which is to say I and some others) have speculated on for months.

So.......if they are thinking of moving him, they won't do it unless we can get someone better. There certainly isn't a better left tackle on the market, which brings the pointer right back to Thomas.

I suppose Eo can cast me down as being an Optimist, because I tend to think that Savage "gets it" since he's publicly admitting that Shaffer is quite possibly a right tackle <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

The ONLY way to sell the pick for a trade down is for Savage to play poker with several teams... If he can stir interest by stating to "Team A" that "Team B" is willing to dance, he could then try to pull the trigger with a team that has the most to offer... Not completely out of the realm of possibility...

JMHO but less people will be willing to move up for AP than for Calvin Johnson as the 2008 Draft Class is being hyped as one of the greatest RB drafts of all time...

Just to reiterate though.. I would LOVE to have an Adrian Peterson but not at the expense of missing out on Joe Thomas.. The kid is just too good of a LT prospect to pass on...

I agree and I would hope Savage is on the same page.....I think the only way Peterson is an option is if we trade down or land an OG and OT in free agency. I'm all for taking Peterson if we make a concerted effort in free agency to improve the line. Even with that said the 2nd and 3rd rounds better be some combination of OG, DE, CB. I'd like to think Thomas and Branch were #1 and #2 on our draft board but in reality it probably looks something more like this when considering BPA:

1.) Johnson
2.) Thomas
3.) Peterson
4.) Branch

Is that my personal opinion? Absolutely not....I have Branch and Thomas as 1A and 1B in terms of our team needs and in all honesty, could probably make an argument to take Branch if both are available. But in terms of the draft board our front office will put together, I can almost guaruntee Johnson is at the top of the list.

Johnson is, in my opinion, the only truly "elite" player in this draft and I really do believe he'll be the #1 player on our draft board. What I mean by that is he's a guy that will probably step in from day one and light the league on fire. I think he has Randy Moss type potential. Does that mean we'll take him? I really have no idea but I'll just say I won't be surprised if we do.

Do we need Johnson? I'm not really sure. Some might say yes, some might say no. I wouldn't say WR is on our list of off-season priorities but when a 6'5'' pass catcher with great speed, glue for hands and extremely high character is staring you in the face, it will make any GM think twice. Johnson wouldn't be my first choice but I will understand if Savage decides he just can't pass on him. I'm sure a lot of people will agree with that but I think in the end, Savage believes you have to take the best guy in the 1st round.

If Savage thinks Johnson is the best player in the draft he's either going to draft him or trade down but he's surely not going to pass on him. JMHO.

In other news... Any news on Branch foregoing his Sr. year?

Post deleted by illegalmoe

U guys can debate and talk philosophy all u want .... its really quite simple no matter how u care to look at it ..

if we pick #3 and thomas is available and anything but Joe Thomas comes out of his mouth were SCREWED cause Opie dont get it ...

U guys can talk about what Opie thinks of Shaff and talk about how we need a RB and a NT (Peterson and Branch) but the simple fact remains .. U dont get many chances to draft LT's of this caliber VERY OFTEN ... when u have that shot u take it .. PERIOD ...

we can find a NT alot closer to Branch in the draft of FA ... we can fine RB alot closer to Peterson in the draft or in FA ... HISTORY PROVES IT .. LT's are much harder to aquire via the FA cause good ones simply are never let go .. need proof .. JUST LOOK AT OURS OVER THE LAST 7 YEARS ....

Last year alone a PRO BOWL RB and a PRO BOWL NT were available via FA ... when was the last time a PRO BOWL LT WAS available in FA .. try NEVER!!!!!!!!!!! WELL EXCPET FOR THE SQUEELER who could'nt walk anymore .. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

guys u just dotn get a shot at a LT in the draft very often .. when u do u need to be all over it ... and their a VERY VERY SAFE PICK TO BOOT .. their downside is they will be a decent RT for years to come .. we aint; even had one OL since our return with that much upside ... *L* ..

If thomas is available .. and we dotn take him . OPIE just bought his ticket our of town ... its really that simple .. cause any other way of thinking is just flawed ....

see the thread about trading him.... I can guaran-friggin-tee that his value on the market isn't even remotely worth what it's going to cost us to trade him.

thats why I posted that we may be screwed and some team arizona for example will jump us to the #2 slot. Detroit can still move down and get what they need. Then we are stuck. Quinn and Thomas are gone. We dont have a dance partner to trade with because or only real option is to take Branch or perhaps reach and grab the other tackle that may come out cant remember his name off the top of my head. If Ginn comes out that even further buries us because now we cant even hold out hope of having a top flight WR to hold some team hostage over. Our fate just like when we took BE is not in our hands and chances are we wont like the outcome if someone like Thomas more then us with a more then willing trading partner at #2.

I'm confused. Tampa played the tougher schedule than we did? I would have bet money we played the tougher schedule so Tampa would have the 3rd pick. Shows what I know. Glad to hear it though.
<img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

linkage

2007 DRAFT 1st-ROUND
SELECTION ORDER

(Ed note: W-L %s based on all 16 opponents this season for each team)

December 26, 2006

# Team W-L Opponents' W-L %
1 Detroit 2-13 .529
2 Oakland 2-13 .546
3 Cleveland 4-11 .533
4 Tampa Bay 4-11 .542
5 Arizona 5-10 .492
6 Houston 5-10 .513
7 (1)Washington 5-10 513

Actually pretty convincing arguments can be made for Peterson, Branch and Thomas.

The likelyhood of one or more of them being there when the Browns pick is pretty good. So that is a good thing and the Browns will just have to make it work.

I would like to take the Peterson point for a bit. In terms of need, and the long run, it may not be a bad idea to pick up Peterson, who has been the premier college back for several years now. Is his ability able to cover up for a deficient OL... probably to some extent yes. The real need position is Guard anyway and the Browns may be better off waiting to round 2 to address that need.

A few years ago the Browns tanked the 3rd pick for Warren, and let LT slip away. That decision has been the bain of the Browns for years. The next year, they pick up Green, a perfect example of 2 wrongs, and a need pick versus a BPA pick. When PS get here, he trades 2 DL (not even the bad ones) for Reuban, so the picking of Warren over LT has affected the Browns for the past 5 years.

Picking Peterson would go a long way to addressing the pathetic running game of the Browns.

Since we we'll be picking third most likely since Dorsey is going to start, Is there any hope that LaMarr Woodley will fall to us in the 2nd round to take over for Willie McGinest ?

Woodley is rated a top 10-15 prospect depending on the site. Even with juniors declaring I doublt that he would be available at 36-40.

[color:"red"] U guys can debate and talk philosophy all u want .... its really quite simple no matter how u care to look at it ..

if we pick #3 and thomas is available and anything but Joe Thomas comes out of his mouth were SCREWED cause Opie dont get it ...
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Ha..thats why we talk about other seneros..because none of us really KNOW if Opie will pull the trigger if Thomas is there <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
It's BEEN SIMPLE FOR 6 Years AND WE'RE still waiting to see someone OTHER than us get it right.

My question (and I'm sure it will be answered again before April) is "Is Joe Thomas really "all that"? "

Every single year the top rated OT is pimped to no end on here for pretty much no reason other than he's the top rated OT... and they always either fall in the draft and then seemingly disappear or end up doing nothing in the league.

So, Joe Thomas... is he *really* all that, or is he *all that* because we're all dead set on "we gotta get us a LT and he just happens to be the top rated one for this crop"?

Is he *truly* worth the #3 overall or is he another over hyped Outland winner that gets noticed just because he's the top rated OL just like Gallery (or others like Nat Dorsey or Kelly Butler or <insert over-pimped, over-hyped list of names here>)?

If all he ends up being is a RT or a G for us, is he still worth that pick??

Does anyone really know or are we all just spouting what we've read elsewhere like a bunch of parrots that can only say 'Polly got a Tackle?' ?