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No one can be as bad as Bowie.... Right?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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No one can be as bad as Bowie.... Right? you'd hope
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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eo...so you are admitting that the front office went CHEAP, signing Britt?  Not wasting my time on you...you've gone over the deep end...smh BYE!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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EO, when a very well respected Browns player said this after last year free agent debacle..."....you have to keep your good players. You can’t keep getting rid of good players and think you’re going to get better."
EO, do you believe that player was full of crap?
Is that the same player that shared his excitement on Twitter following the start of free agency?!? Joe Thomas Verified account @joethomas73 Here we go Brownies, here we go!! Woof, woof!!!! 3:18 PM - 9 Mar 2017 Joe Thomas Tweet
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I truely believe losing Pryor was just a result of how the proccess evolved ... think about it for a second ... look at the personalities involved and then look at how things unfolded ...
Pryor is a cocky dude .. he BELIEVES in himself like no other ... he thinks he can do anything and beat anybody ... thats who he is ... and IMO ... thats a good thing ...
He hired Drew .. he's the agent of the GREEDY ... u hire him to get every last dime, nickle, penny and ounce of blood by any and all means necessary ... thats who that guy is as an agent .. the next time he does a deal and the phrase "team friendly deal" is used ... it will be the first time ... *L* ..
I called him hitting the market unless we way overpaid the day I heard drew was his agent ... thats a NO-BRAINER ... now the part I didn't see ... how it could evolve coupled with Pryor's confidence in himself ...
I believe the Browns honestly wanted him back and I believe TP wanted to be here ... here's how it unfolded ...
- by all accounts we offered about 8 million a year over 4 years ... if true that was the best offer he received ... therefore by definition MAKING IT A VERY GOOD/FAIR OFFER ...
- TP wanted more than that and Drew was just the guy to fuel his fire .. so Drew says lets test the market as thats to low ...
- TP gets to market finds out its not near what he wanted ...
- TP is confident he can earn the big bucks on a one year trial and thats what he wants .. he basically doesn't think we're overpaying by enough .... he wants ELITE WR money and this is his ONLY CHANCE TO GET IT ... if he signs a 4 year deal .. he'll be 32 when that ones done ..
- If you wrote the script for the perfect one year scenario it would be WAshington .. a coach that LOVES and KNOWS HOW TO throw the football ... a QB in a contract year ... NO #1 or #2 WR's with a great tE and slot guy to take coverage off U ...
If your going to do a one year PROVE IT deal .. its a NO-BRAINER ...
I really don't fault either side ... its just how it worked out ...
At first I didn't want TP as I thought he was not going to be worth the money he was going to get .. then about a month ago after looking at the FA class and how hard he worked I changed my mind .. so I WANTED HIM BACK ...
I don't like this FO .. we had a very good day ... IMO the best day we've had since our return .. but i don't think it was near as good a day as most and it certainly doesn't make me feel much better about this FO ... with that said ..
I don't blame them for this ... i just think it was the personalities involved and the way it unfolded ... our FO by all accounts made the best offer ... TP just didn't think we were overpaying him by enough ...
BUMMER it worked out that way ... cause now our WR corps is NOT VERY GOOD ... no #1 .. not even sure we have a #2 at this point ... and Lewis is like a 6th or 7th with his hands .. *L* ... A really good read and great post - and I'd say really fair. The only thing you didn't mention that *maybe* makes Pryor's decision more rationale - he has Kirk Cousins throwing him the ball in Washington during his 'one year show me deal' year. That versus not knowing what the Browns are doing at QB. I agree we got worse at WR. And I agree that the decision was all on Pryor. Man I hope Pryor does well for himself. But it's a big risk, regardless of how much you believe in yourself.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Just for fun ..... and making some assumptions .... looking at the numbers - he's risking $32 million with about $17 million in guarantees. (I'm going to be conservative in these assumptions .... I believe the Browns would have offered Pryor more than they offered Britt - but will assume it;s the same deal)
Assuming he makes ALL of his incentives with the Redskins - and I have read somewhere that they are going to be hard to hit - he should have $8 million in the bank next FA period - and he'll be 28. He has to sign a big contract with a good guarantee - AND see most of the contract through to the final year if he's going to recover that $24 million.
Just for fun - lets say he ends up a top 10 WR and gets a contract like Garcon this year. Garcon is a couple years older - but better at his craft. $50 mill - 5 years ish. $12 mill signing bonus. $20 guaranteed. I think it's safe to assume he'll get cut after 4 years. (maybe sooner but lets say 4) For simplicity lets say that costs him $10 mill (1/5 of the total - in reality it normally costs a player more than an equal split - I am trying to built 'fat' into the numbers) ...... if it all goes GREAT he could earn $8 mill + $50 mill - $10 mill ... $48 million over the next 5 years.
If we assume great things then it would also be fair to think at 32 Pryor can sign for $6 million somewhere - again I think that's being conservative based on the assumption that he's earning $10+ mill per with a different team at the same age/stage) .... the net difference is an extra $10 million......
If it all goes wrong - maybe he's hit a ceiling, Cousins or Pryor are injured, the Washington are dysfunctional and bad .... What is the worst case scenario? $6 million for next season (he misses incentives) and what contract/earnings for the remainder of his career? There is much more to be lost than gained from the contract the Browns offered.
Last edited by mgh888; 03/11/17 11:27 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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[quote]
...his heart, work ethic and toughness..difficult values to fit into an analytics formula.
too bad the Browns GM has no personal experience with those sort of values, never playing the game or thinking about such player intangibles. So just to recap - Zietler - offered the best deal and signs the deal by the Browns and you question his desire to be here. Pryor - offered the best deal but does not sign the deal by the Browns, and you maintain that Pryor wanted to be here. We've both agreed no-one knows that actual contracts offered and we can only go by what is reputably reported. However - now you claim you know the way that the analytics are performed AND what Sashi and Company value and consider. It's gonna come as a surprise - but I disagree.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I agree and good post. I think what some are forgetting is Pryor had hammy issues and missed some camp and played lame a few games if I remember. If he pulls up lame this yr. He really screwed himself.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Here is my impression of Pryor
He is talented, but has a tendency to let his ego get in his way. He does not always carry himself well, and I suspect he is quite a trash talker on the field. See come of those comments by other corners during the season.
So while not looking for choirboys, headaches created by drama queens are a different story. In the end that affects how a team values a player, and is willing to offer a bundle of money, knowning that you are going to be spending more on aspirin and dealing with the issues associated with the signing.
It's TO etc, part 2.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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J/C...
I don't understand why people want to wish him luck and hope he does well in Washington.
I kind of feel he punked the Browns and the fans... He's not a Brown any longer. I hope he falls on his face and sucks in Washington.
I want the Browns WR's to be good..Because they are on the team I want to see win.
I'm cautiously excited for this up coming draft and season.. No TP is going to change that for me.
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ABOUT TERRELLE PRYOR The Browns offered Pryor a $32 million deal over four years, $17 million guaranteed. I'm told Pryor wanted a four-year deal averaging $13 million -- or $52 million total. Not sure how much guaranteed. The Browns thought that was outrageous, as it would make him one of the highest-paid receivers in the NFL. They never had any intention of offering him the $15 million franchise tag for 2016. Being so far apart with Pryor, the Browns turned to Kenny Britt -- who quickly grabbed the deal. Pryor was sure other teams would be interested. The 6-foot-4, 230-pound Pryor is a gifted athlete. He worked hard to convert from quarterback to receiver. But the Browns -- like most of the NFL -- are not yet convinced that he will be a consistent impact receiver. http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index...ry_ta_106.html
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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Your value is what teams are willing to pay you. Clearly the guy is getting bad advice from someone.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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The Browns thought that was outrageous... ...and it most certainly was. Seems like the Browns offer was very appropriate, and nearing the top end of the scale...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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They're perfect in every way. Que sera, sera 
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They're perfect in every way. Que sera, sera I won't say the FO is perfect, by any stretch. But the fact that no one else in the league offered him anywhere near what he wanted tells me that his demands were on the outrageous end of the scale. I wanted to keep him. I really did.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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just clicking.
While I respect players desire to get paid, I can't help but lose some respect for Pryor with his strategy here. We gave him a helluva an offer that would provide financial security and loads of guaranteed cash. Instead, he decides he'll roll the dice on trying to get top 5 money next year.
Mac talks about how the team lacks loyalty to its players but in this case, its Pryor that lacks loyalty. Hue gives the guy a chance, works with him, develops him. The Browns reward his production with a great offer and Pryor turns his back on them. Doesn't even look to the Browns to see if they'll match the Skins.
He's a mercenary plain and simple. I'm grossed out by him. I hope the Skins trade Cousins and Pryor tries to put up huge numbers with Colt McCoy at QB instead of Cousins
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He's a mercenary plain and simple. I'm grossed out by him. I hope the Skins trade Cousins and Pryor tries to put up huge numbers with Colt McCoy at QB instead of Cousins
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In the NBA or MLB, we'd have called this "betting on himself" like Jimmy Butler or Max Scherzer.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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In the NBA or MLB, we'd have called this "betting on himself" like Jimmy Butler or Max Scherzer. I think you call it the same in the NFL. Some of these guys get so dramatic around here. They act like Pryor is disgusting, but don't bat an eye when the Browns cut a guy like RGIII. What was that move about if not money? The NFL is a business and acting like some is "gross" or disgusting for business decisions is way over the top.
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... financial security... To some people, a small fortune isn't simply enough...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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In the NBA or MLB, we'd have called this "betting on himself" like Jimmy Butler or Max Scherzer. I think you call it the same in the NFL. Some of these guys get so dramatic around here. They act like Pryor is disgusting, but don't bat an eye when the Browns cut a guy like RGIII. What was that move about if not money? The NFL is a business and acting like some is "gross" or disgusting for business decisions is way over the top. RG3 was cut due to lack of production. They signed a contract to see if he could reclaim his rookie magic. He can't. Thats that. I realize its a business decision Vers but I just see it as a bad one. I'm not saying that Pryor should have signed with us for a hometown discount.Nor am i saying he shouldn't seek out financial security. But he had the ability to set himself up with a good contract and good guaranteed money. Yet he chooses to go after the mega-jackpot with the idea that he'll be paid top 5 money next year. Am I a little bitter due to the orange colored glasses? Sure I am...and its probably a little unreasonable due to sentiment I have for the Browns. So is gross a little over the top...sure...but its the way I feel. He said he wanted to be here, we gave him a good deal and he walked anyways. Just doesn't sit well with me. If it sits well with you, meh.... difference of stances. I'm not fussed.
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... financial security... To some people, a small fortune isn't simply enough... He's making 6 million this year ... pretty sure he won't be looking in the couch cushions for change ... 
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... financial security... To some people, a small fortune isn't simply enough... He's making 6 million this year ... pretty sure he won't be looking in the couch cushions for change ... Probably not, but he could come sit on my couch for a while...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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prp...you know I do not agree...
This is the 2nd year in a row that our Harvard lawyer/GM failed to do his job.
It is rather bizarre, Sashi and Jimmy throwing money around, overpaying other teams free agents...but they can't find the money to sign their own free agents.
I believe the front office will be changing in the next year.,..you can't build a winning team when the front office sends this message to the locker room.
Might be time for Sashi Brown to find another job within the franchise, because he sure isn't GM material. The beautiful thing here is that is doesn't matter one bit whether you agree with me or not.... you're still not right. They offered him plenty of money. He took less on a one year deal so that he could go and have a "Show Me" year and hopefully strike it bigger next year. Your opinion of the front office is not only baseless at this point, it's flat out ridiculous and all your ranting and whining to the contrary doesn't change a thing.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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J/c ....my question to all of u ... Why do u indulge him at this point? ... I *LMNO* (N = Nuts) everytime i see u guys going back and forth ... about every third or 4th day I'll read 2 or 3 of macs posts and a couple responses just to make sure its the same convo different day ... and so far ... its never dissapointed til the last couple days ... macs posts are so hateful and so fantasy based I LMAO reading them ... and then .. there u guys are ... still indulging him ... and that makes me *L* a little longer and harder ... I don't get it ... but thats just me ... ya' all must enjoy it cause u keep on doing it ... and guess its about enjoying yourself ... so have fun fellas ... *L* ... ...
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I get the homer angle.
Just trying to keep it real, Canada.
Look at it this way. Is Zeitler "grossing you out" because he left the Bengals and signed w/us for big money? What about our other free agents? Are they "gross?"
It's a business. And making it so personal isn't productive.
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I get the homer angle.
Just trying to keep it real, Canada.
Look at it this way. Is Zeitler "grossing you out" because he left the Bengals and signed w/us for big money? What about our other free agents? Are they "gross?"
It's a business. And making it so personal isn't productive. to be fair to Zietler, he never claimed not to be in it for the money. Also, Bengals never offered him a contract. *Crazy ass cheap Bengals.* Pryor had a market value offer. He claimed he did wanted to be here. If he would have been upfront, no skin of my back, do what you want. Bah, I shouldnt sound this bitter. I think Pryor is highly replaceable. I also think he might be in trouble with Doctson in Washington. He and Crowder are very high level. He wont get the targets he got here
you had a good run Hank.
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I get the homer angle.
Just trying to keep it real, Canada.
Look at it this way. Is Zeitler "grossing you out" because he left the Bengals and signed w/us for big money? What about our other free agents? Are they "gross?"
It's a business. And making it so personal isn't productive. You're mostly right...it's one of those what's good for the goose is not good for the gander situations. What irritates me I guess is the strategy of Pryor. If he signed to Washington, for 10 mil a year for 4 years, I'd say fine....so be it. He found his best deal. But the whole taking a one year contract to try to position himself for an even BIGGER deal next year...yeah, that sours me. Especially since he made a bunch of noise about wanting to stay. It's like offering someone an awesome wage and job security and having them turn around and take less as a stand in to chase an even bigger jackpot that's not assured. SO yes...I'm admittedly irritated cuz he's just not here. I can admit that. But I don't like the way the dude did business on this one.
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~ Legend
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The Browns didn't want to offer him a 1 year contract and the dude wanted to get paid? What if he's a top 5 WR next year. Why should he be the 30th highest paid WR then? He's betting on himself. When most teams were betting against him. Personally, I'd much rather have him on a 1 year contract here than Britt on a 4 year deal.
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Agree with you on feeding mac. *L*
The reason I clicked though was because I read your post about how you think the Pryor thing several times and I think you're most likely spot on as how it probably played out. Good instincts.
#gmstrong
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The Browns didn't want to offer him a 1 year contract and the dude wanted to get paid? What if he's a top 5 WR next year. Why should he be the 30th highest paid WR then? He's betting on himself. When most teams were betting against him. Personally, I'd much rather have him on a 1 year contract here than Britt on a 4 year deal. 100% agreement from me.
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He's got tender hammies. He will be out of Football in two years.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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j/c
I don't begrudge him for taking the 1 year offer over our 4 year deal. I understand why he did. I'm satisfied the Browns offer was fair and in good faith. If, after a year, the Browns and Pryor find common ground and he returns, I would welcome our prodigal son back.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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Your a better Man than I am. If our monies not good enough now, then let him rot next yr.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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... financial security... To some people, a small fortune isn't simply enough... He's making 6 million this year ... pretty sure he won't be looking in the couch cushions for change ... You would hope so. 6 mil turns in to 4 mil pretty quickly after taxes. At his age you can't retire on that. As a retired guy, you can cut through 60K a year pretty easily. Luckily for me I can do that another 23 years before I start to dig in to my reserve.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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The 27-year-old Broyles made over $2 million from the Lions between 2012 and now. But he keeps to a budget of $5,000 a month in total spending. Of course, that’s a lot of income for most people, but spending less than you earn, if you’re able to, is smart in any income bracket.
He said some of his friends ask him why he doesn’t have flashy things, like a Porsche. But he tells them he’ll have such things one day, and he won’t even have to be working when he buys them.
“I want to invest and I want the investments to provide so I’m financially free,” he told me.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Practice Squad
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Don't forget his Business 'Team'.
Agent, Lawyers, Accountants, etc.
The Agent's % comes off the 6 Million Before Taxes.
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All Pro
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Maybe this FO wants to improve. We were 1-15 with the players we had, 1-15. You keep saying the FO won't sign our own players yet those players were 1-15. I'm all for keeping good players, at the right price, but I also think you can improve almost all positions on a team that went 1-15...But you won't see any reasoning. So....
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Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Read my sig and tell me that Joe Thomas is ignorant.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pryor signs with Redskins
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