DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jimmy Garopollo part 6?

I agree. I would like Jimmy, but not over Myles. No way.

I don't know but you sure made a big production out of what you feel is no big deal.

xactly! I would trade a package that includes #12, coming out of the draft with Garrett and Garoppolo would make me very happy. But #1 is off limits! It is for Garrett.

(It amazes me how many people insist we have to take a QB #1. How long has this team been without a talent like MG? A decade?)

I'll take on the last two questions.

The tag is applied by a team. If the player negotiates a new contract and is traded, it is a new contract. New teams don't take on a franchise tag. It would always be a sign and trade deal. You can't transfer a franchise tag from one team to another.


So that being the case, it isn't harder to trade a tagged player.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tag

I don't think anyone thinks they would trade Brady for Garoppolo.

Thanks...........but, I am still confused.

If NE franchises him, that means he will be paid around $22 million. How does that go away?

The most likely scenario, if Garoppolo is franchised tagged, would be he signs the tag and is then traded. After he is traded he then signs an extension with his new team. Signing an extension before he is traded makes no sense for the Patriots or Garoppolo.

Garoppolo could refuse to sign the franchise tag and then the Patriots couldn't trade him at all.

Unless you're making a joke, you lost me. I think the context should make clear I'm talking about trading Garoppolo for #1 draft pick, also known as Myles Garrett.

Sorry, you said the Patriots QB of the future (which is Brady). I got confused. Garoppolo is an insurance policy. Next year he becomes a very expensive insurance policy.

It goes away because the player signs a new contract, voiding the other.

As I said, NE can't trade a franchise tag to another team. It has to be a sign and trade deal.

At any point NE and the player could reach an agreement, voiding the tag contract and implementing the terms of the new contract.

Then you and I clearly see him differently. I see him as the heir apparent, and until something changes, the QB who will replace Brady...hence the future QB.

Brady thinks he's playing for at least five more years. That's what I am basing this off of. I don't see anyway Garoppolo is on the Patriots in 2018 with Brady still on the team.

So what you are saying the Franchise tag means the player cant sign anywhere and the team cannot trade him.

In order for a trade the team would have to re-sign him.

No, that's not what I mean. At least how I read your comment.

He can be traded as I see it. He just can't be traded under the terms of a franchise tag. He'd have to come to terms with us or whatever team before a trade would be confirmed by the league.

NE applied the franchise tag. Thay can't transfer that designation to another team as I read it. He could only be traded under the terms of a new contract.

In other words, NE would no longer have a player under the franchise tag, and now the Browns would.

OK thanks

Something seems off. What about the rights of the players?

You franchise a guy so he can't test free agency, where he likely could have gotten a big payday. Once you franchise him, he is set to make around $22 million. Then, you trade him and he can't make that money and has to work agree to a contract w/his new team?

That sounds illegal as hell.

If you keep a guy from testing the FA market, he damn well better have some protection.

Dang man. They can't trade him unless it is under the terms of a new contract with the other team. He isn't going to sign a contract he doesn't like. He has to agree with the trade and the terms.

The player has rights in this deal. He can say heck no, I'll just take your 22 mil.

I have already explained a team can't trade a franchised player unless he comes to terms with the new team.

It just means he can't be traded unless the player himself agrees to it.

Hey Tom we just franchised you but there is a team that is making us an insane offer. Would you be willing to take a ton of money to go play for them?

It's that kind of scenario. Unless of course they are willing to sacrifice 3 first round picks to steal him away against the team that franchised him.

What usually happens is some other teams will offer up deals for a trade and it establishes value. Then the team uses that benchmark to resign their player long term. Unless they are stubborn or stupid.

A player can sign the franchise tag and be traded.

For example, Kirk Cousins signed his franchise tag. Washington can now trade him to any team. His contract is one year and however much the assigned franchise tag value is.

I was just listening to a local sports talk show, as I usually do when I'm driving, and they were saying the Browns already offered #12 and a #2. They said if they were the Pats they would turn it down and make the Browns sweat because of who we have at QB mentioning Brock O. I don't know if this is true I'm just throwing it out there. I wouldn't offer any more than 2 #2's. By the way I do live in Pats territory and they are constantly discussing this pro and con.

Don't get angry. I am looking for clarification. That's better than trotting out an uniformed claim like others do.

Here is my next question: Why in the world would Jimmy agree to give up the $22 million and accept a poor contract?

This sounds right to me. Not sure if it is, but it sounds correct.

Which leads me back to New England would be smarter by trading him this year, rather than franchising him and having such a hefty salary attached to him.

The market will be much larger if he is traded this year than it would be if he were franchised. Cousins has a fairly substantial body of work. Jimmy does not. Paying him in the $22 million ball park is not something many teams can afford to do and probably wouldn't do even if they could afford it.

I still contend that trading him this year is New England's best opportunity to receive maximum compensation, because there is almost assuredly a market for him where there are probably multiple teams interested in him.

I do not think that would be the case if he is franchised.

LOL.........I could be whacked. But, that's the way I see it.

What's the majorities opinion on this, Homes?

Most want to keep him from the ones I've heard but the guys running the show tonight said the Pats should take the picks because TB will be around a few more years and JG might leave in FA and they'll get nothing. Some say he'll be the next face of the team when TB finally leaves. A lot of pro and con back and forth. A lot of debating as you would expect.

Good info. Thanks.

Or however much the new team wants to pay him and he agrees to sign for.

I don't know for sure, has anybody been traded at the franchise amonunt and stayed there?? I don't think so, it's always a on a new contract.

I wonder how many guys w/a Franchise tag have been traded while they still had the tag?

Matt Cassel.

He was tagged and signed the tag:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3891669

He was then traded:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090304002108/http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2009/02/28/chiefs_acquire_qb_matt_cassel_lb_mike_vrabel_in_trade_with_patriots

(Sorry this link is not hyperlinked, it won't allow me for some reason. You can copy and paste it if you would like to read the article.)

He then signed an extension:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=4327067

It doesn't make sense for the tagging team to sign him to a contract and then trade him. There would be too many moving parts (bonuses, guaranteed money, etc.).

I am not angry. Possibly frustrated.


To answer your question, long term security. A feeling of being wanted.


But as I commented here or elsewhere, 22 mil turns in to around 10-11 or so net $mill.

Front load a retirement fund with 2 mil to start paying at maybe age 55, you could lead a nice lifestyle in the Keys for 25 years until the retirement funds kick in

Whoever signs Garoppolo to his next contract will almost certainly give him more than $22 million guaranteed.

He has played less than Glennon and Osweiler, but I think most people agree his potential is much greater. Glennon got $18.5 million guaranteed, Osweiler got $37 million guaranteed.

I am just trying to talk the process. I am not trying to predict the dollars involved.

I still say the only logical reason for the Pats not to take the picks is if they think Brady is done in the next year or two. I get the insurance argument but they are not turning down multiple top 64 picks when they have proven they can win with me at QB if need be.

I mean they get a 3rd round comp pick and a backup for a year....or multiple top 65 picks over the next two years. That is an easy choice if Brady is going to be around for awhile.

Their decision/willingness to trade him has everything to do with Brady's availability, and I am pretty confident in that....provided I he Browns have/are offering what has been proposed

Agreed.

Info on the franchise tag....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/28/10-things-to-know-about-the-franchise-tag/

It doesn't say what happens when a player is traded but from my understanding is the new team can sign the new player and team can negotiate a new contract up until I believe july or something like that. The signed tag would then become null and void. A player cannot be traded until he signs his tag. That'son the "exclusive rights" franchise tag.

Thank you.

Go ahead and draft Myles Garret....if you want to be 2-14 and see all our coaching staff and fO get fired and us being forced to start over yet again and be put back another 3-4 years when they gut the roster again.

Garret is NOT the right pick for the Browns. He may be a good player, but he is not the player we should take.

Garrett is a guy you take when you actually have a QB, or some other pieces.

If the Browns are smart they trade out of the #1 pick down to pick 3-5 and then take a QB at that spot and gain more picks. Garrett isn't the right fit here right now for Cleveland despite his talent...we need a QB more then anything else...an above average QB is > then Garret because that QB will actually win games which Garrett will not do.

Hue already told the Plain Dealer they value an above average QB more then say an elite pass rusher...i don't see the Browns taking Garret at #1 even if they stay at that pick....if they can't trade out and stay in the top 5, they take a QB...I still think Chicago, Tenn, and Jacksonville all make interesting trade partners for the Browns. We can swap picks and maybe gain a a few picks and then take a QB....A lot of what you do depends on timing and circumstance...Garrett just doens't fit out circumstances...if we had a QB even an above average one, then you take Garret...with the absolute trash we have now at the position...you cna't take the risk of those guys being gone at 12...you trade down to the 3rd, 4th, or 5th spot and then take a QB, if not, take your QB...

Like when Houston took a QB over Clowney? Oh wait.

Or when The Raiders got Carr in the 1st round and Khalil Mack in the 2nd? Oh wait..

What rookie QB will lead us to 3+ wins?

Which team picking in the 3-5 range will want to move up to #1? Why? And what would they give to do so?