DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft The quarterback draft class of 2017

I could have sworn D. Watson measured in at 6'3 at the combine (surprised me too) How come a lot of more recent breakdowns/reports have him at 6'2?

Full episodes of Gruden camp starts April 11

Interesting - and I had a peak at Kessler. Has him listed as same ball velocity as Trubisky which I thought was interesting.

And 2014 - Jimmy G is a long way down that list!

Those things should be kept between you and your proctologist.

I get that people like that guy because he got on a couple of local villains, but he is far from an expert in my opinion. That chart is pretty crude in my opinion.

The main thing I keep between me and my proctologist is a lot of space.

I know it will come as a shock to some, but Gruden seems POSITIVE about Trubisy!
LINK

Jon Gruden believes Mitchell Trubisky can handle Browns' hometown pressure and 'he'll be a real steal for somebody'

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
on March 13, 2017 at 8:30 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Jon Gruden spent Monday with Mitchell Trubisky in Orlando to film their "QB Camp'' segment and came away convinced the Mentor, Ohio, native could handle the pressure of playing for his hometown Browns.

"That would be fun to watch,'' Gruden said in an ESPN interview to promote his popular series, which begins next month. "He's from Mentor, Ohio, Mr. Football (in Ohio) that would be quite a story. I showed him a lot of tape today of Ben Roethlisberger.

"I showed him a little tape of Joe Flacco. World Champion quarterbacks in the AFC North, and the one thing the Cleveland Browns have not been able to solve is the quarterback and I think he could handle it. I also know that it would be a lot of pressure. They have to give him better support than they have right now, I know that.''

Gruden spent time with the North Carolina product on the field and in the meeting room, going over snaps counts and his film. The Browns have the No. 1 and No. 12 picks in the first round, and really like Trubisky.

"There's a lot to like,'' said Gruden. "He's a quick study, he learns fast, it's really important to him, he loves football and he's mature. He is a finisher at North Carolina. He never quit, he was a backup, he waited three years for his opportunity, and trust me, he's going to be a real steal for somebody."

Gruden admitted, however, that Trubisky's 13 college starts send up a red flag.

"I'm concerned,'' he said. "I'm no different than a lot of coaches that say 'I want a three-year starter. I want a minimum of 24 victories. I want two bowl wins.' (But) I want a good quarterback. That's what I want. I got kicked out of the league because I had a hard time sustaining at the quarterback position. Trubiusky is one of the top quarterback prospects in this draft, period. I wish I had more to study but that's the way it is.''

As for Trubisky's almost exclusive experience in the spread and out of the shotgun, he said, "it's a transition for almost all of these college quarterbacks. You have to be able to recognize defenses on your own in pro football. You can't look to the sideline and read some board. You've got to recognize the defense on your own and then you've got to communicate to your offensive teammates what you want them to do.

"Then you have to put the ball in play with the snap count and after all is said and done you've got execute the play. But that's where these young quarterbacks today struggle the most with recognizing defenses and communicating with the offense and most importantly the snap count.''

The fact that Trubisky measured over 6-foot-2 at the NFL Combine wasn't as important to Trubisky as it was to Browns coach Hue Jackson and others. For Jackson, it marks his threshold for NFL success.

"Some of these analytical people can't make a draft pick unless all the measurables hold up,'' he said. "Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, there's a lot of quarterbacks that threw that out for me. I want a good player that's passionate about the game that's athletic, and I think Trubisky fits that mold for me personally.''

Gruden tutored Trubisky on how to bark out a hard count, but believes he'll be a quick study.

"He knows the North Carolina offense,'' said Gruden. "In fairness to him, that's all you can ask him to know right now. He understands that offense, the protections, the passing game, how the running game works at a very high level, and what we put in today, he picked up quickly.

"And you'll see when the show comes out, he's on the field with NFL players today, calling plays, audibling the plays and executing. He just needs somebody to spend time with him and teach him what they want done. But he is a sharp kid that can learn fast."

In the segment, Gruden asks Trubisky how he's handling his sudden fame after sitting for two years at North Carolina.

"I think I'm handling it pretty well,'' he said. "It's kind of just funny to me. It's strange to see, but the media's going to take things and run with it and it's the way to make stories, but I just stick to my business and do what I've got to do week to week for the team to get better and it doesn't really mean much to me.''

The Browns interviewed Trubisky at the NFL Combine and will attend his Pro Day next week. They'll also conduct a private workout with him and bring him to Berea for a predraft visit. They're strongly considering him in the first round of the draft, although they're pretty well set on Texas A&M's Myles Garrett at No. 1 overall.

"There's going to be pressure pretty much everywhere you go,'' Trubisky said at the Combine. "There's exterior pressure, but there's not more pressure than the one I put on myself. I expect more out of myself than anybody else. That's kind of how I go about my business."

The other quarterbacks in the series are Clemson's Deshaun Watson, Notre Dame's DeShone Kizer, Texas Tech's Patrick Mahomes, Tennessee's Joshua Dobbs, Miami's Brad Kaaya and Pittsburgh's Nathan Peterman.

"There's some unknowns this year, but this class starts with Deshaun Watson," Gruden said in a release announcing the participants last month. "His body of work is as impressive as any quarterback we've had come through 'QB Camp.' I got the chance to see him live, and I think he has a ton of ability.

"There are some underclassmen coming out who have questions that need to be answered. That's why this process is exciting. But three or four years from now, I expect people will be saying this is a pretty good quarterback class."

The series kicks off April 11 at 8:30 p.m. on ESPN2 with multiple showings leading up to the draft beginning April 27.

I love how MKC builds her stories based on stuff that comes from other media outlets.
Mercy.

Literally do not care.

That ship has sailed.

Twice.

Thrice.

Of course I forgot about Frye.

Deshaun Watson is so clearly above all other QBs in this draft that I don't honestly get all the Trubisky talk.

Mitch can be a good QB, but right now he is a raw project a very raw 2nd day pick.

If his velocity numbers are correct Watson will be available day 3.

Ball velocity numbers? Never saw any problem, except for the weird excel sheet...

And I think only the Browns are considering Trub has a top QB, Watson will be gone on top 2-5, you just have to check the Bears and 49's forums..

you forgot to make this purple. sarcasm, right?

j/c:

I'm getting a headache.

Has a project or has a QB?

I can understand if you think neither has top 10 quality, although I have some problems since Trubisky doesn't have such an advantage on one part of his game/skills to overcome the difference in starts/wins/games/bowls over Watson.

Theire build are roughly the same, arm isn't so differente...

So objectivly, why would you take Trub?

Not sure I wouldn't take Trub, but know I would not take Watson.

In college, Watson was throwing to NFL quality receivers and faced one, maybe two NFL quality defenses? Or should I say one or two defenses with more than 1 future NFL player on them. He was surrounded by considerably more talent than the team he was going against. And still averaged more than 1 pick a game. How will that improve at the next level, when he faces an NFL caliber defense every game? When he no longer has a huge edge in talent?

If we are going to come out and say that taking care of the ball is not a concern, then we can get Derek Anderson for far less than the 1st round draft pick we'd have to blow to get Watson.

Watson has the skillset to do it though. Taking care of the ball is something that with good coaching, will get better with time.

These are the types of arguments I don't get. Not that circumstantial stuff is a waste, its not, but to me the film and the measurables are far more important.

Also if you are gonna use this against Watson then you have to recognize how much these same arguments can be made against the other prospects. From the top of my head I can tell you Auburn, Ohio State and Bama all have good defenses. How many did the other top prospects face? If you're doing a comparison don't cherry pick lets see how each prospect stacks up in the areas you mention.

Trubs-off the top of my head Hood, Logan, Howard, Switzer are all pro prospects in this draft


I agree he will have to cut down on his interceptions. No doubt. To me that is his biggest issue. iirc Matt Ryan threw a bunch and was able to cut down. In the NFL, when Kirk Cousins started playing he was on pace for a near historic INT% but was able to completely reverse the trend. I mention those as an examples that INT% is something that can be improved. But, I agree when evaluating QBs Watson's interceptions are a knock against him.

iirc in the big games against the best defenses his interceptions weren't an issue. Watson ability in big games is undeniable.

If he can't process information quickly and struggles to read coverages, no amount of coaching will fix his issues.

Not saying those things are given, but it's not just about coaching.

Why do you think it will comes as a shock? Trubs is a good prospect.

And Gruden likes QBs.

I think the perception of how the QBs 'perform' on his show is highly subjective and has a lot to do with personality preferences.

ed, I think he was being sarcastic.............as in, Gruden says "positive" things about every qb.

ed, appreciate your reply and your view points. I have enjoyed your posts since you've joined the board.

I was trying to make one point. The whole thing about him having more talent than the other side was not meant to stand alone. It is the fact that he threw that many picks while having that talent advantage. That concerns me.

I did not watch any of the game breakdown on him. I just saw him in a few games this year. It seems to me he had a tendency to throw balls up for grabs, knowing his horses could beat those on the other side. That will not work at the next level.

Is he the only one who threw a ton of picks? No. But are any of the others being considered one of the top QBs coming out? Honest question, I do not know.

Trub - who I also am not a fan of, did not throw a lot of picks. Fumbled the crap out of the ball. Not a big fan of him, either. I really do not like any QBs this year.

If you lend any credibility to those grades, then you just gotta stay away from ALL of these QBs in round 1, and possibly round 2, too..... none of them compare favorably at all to some very terrible QBs.

So when it comes to evaluating QB's and WR's , Hue and this FO have shown WHAT ??

I appreciate your kind words. TY

I agree that his interceptions are an issue.

However; I disagree that Watson is playing with some huge talent advantage.

Check this site below, it will tell you the pro prospect for each team in NCAA:
http://fftoolbox.scout.com/nfl_draft/profiles_by_team.cfm?school=North%2520Carolina

UNC:

Lucas Crowley C 2017 Senior 0
Jon Heck OT 2017 Senior 0
Mack Hollins WR 2017 Senior 0
Elijah Hood RB 2017 Junior 0
Bug Howard WR 2017 Senior 0
T.J. Logan RB 2017 Senior 0
Dan Mastromatteo FB 2017 Senior 0
Caleb Peterson OG 2017 Senior 0
Ryan Switzer WR 2017 Senior 0

Clemson:

Wayne Gallman RB 2017 Junior 0
Jay Guillermo C 2017 Senior 0
Jordan Leggett TE 2017 Senior 0
Artavis Scott WR 2017 Junior 0
Mike Williams WR 2017 Junior 0


I believe that there is a lot missed from watching a few games and having a general impression vs breaking down the film.

I agree that Watson throws to covered receivers. The context I would add is that Mike Williams is often covered. He's involved in is so many contested catches because he often fails to separate. I also think that is why he didn't run the 40 at the combine. Mike's strength is his ability to adjust to the ball and maintain outstanding ball control. Therefore Watson is often throwing to Mike Williams in situations where he is covered.
Here is an example from an early conversation in film breakdown thread:


Also, I think Clemson cast of players is very overrated. Take A.Scott for example. At the SB he struggled to beat press coverage and ran 4.61 in the 40 meanwhile at Clemson he had 76 receptions. Not exactly a world beater.

All fair. Without watching/breaking down the games I think a lot can be lost in translation. My only point is that IF you are using surrounding talent as a knock against Watson that it also applies to other QB prospects.

And I agree that Watson biggest issue are his interceptions. But I disagree that he's out there just throwing 50-50 balls up for grabs. I think he's making those throws because he's playing to the strengths of Mike Williams.


Yes. Watson has thrown the most picks of the top prospects.

Not a thing so far, which makes me REALLY worry that we'll waste a high pick on one of these QBs.

In my defense I'm snowed in, kids and wife have left me alone....so I got some time to kill...

I'm not sure those velocity numbers are accepted as accurate measures of QB velocity. Some of the numbers over the years just don't match up to film.

QB arm strength/velocity is an important part of the evaluation. NFL teams spend so much time, effort and money into the evaluation process that I don't think they're gonna rely on a process like this with obvious variances as the empirical measure of velocity. Heck, they can easily have some sports science types calculate the actual functional velocity on film.

from this vid @ 1:26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frm1oeO2yu0

Just as a quick layman's example:


Standing at the ~33 ball is caught at the opposite side ~42
~30 yards in about ~1.06s-1.12s

with my very rough math I get well over 49mph on that throw

Teams should be able to calculate ball velocity.

Watson played with a WR that will go top 10 and another WR and RB that will likely go in top 3 rounds.

Trub has Switzer and Logan that will likely go 6th round. The talent around them isn't comparable.

Watson's INTs are troubling. Sure, he's a big game player but so was Tebow. He could end up being great but I just don't trust him. Don't really trust Trub either but if both are available at 12, I roll the dice on Trub.

However, I more and more think we won't go QB til later and I got a hunch it will be Davis Webb out of Cal. Dunno why...just feelin it.

J/C
Regardless of which QB we draft, the plan probably isnt to play him very much based on these guys aint ready. That isnt to say that they are not talented, just the new offenses in college are killing the modern QB's ability to play early. Not taking snaps from center,huddling and walking up to the line of scrimmage will never leave the NFL. Osweiller,Kessler or other will probably be our guy while the rook learns the nuances of the NFL. Take Garrett and then whoever HUE wants and be done.

UNC talented OL, solid run game. The main difference is Mike Williams whose inability to seperate is part of the reason Watson throws so many 50-50 balls.

Trying to diminish Watson's accomplishments the clutch by comparing him to Tebow is lazy and dismissive.

People may not like Trubisky,I do by the way, but people aren't on here making spurious critiques against his game.

I like Webb also.

Watson is no Tebow, you just have to see him throw the ball.
Regarding the Int's we just have to put it in context, and in the case of Watson I don't think it’s necessarily a bad thing.
1. It shows he is not worried about his numbers, he’s more committed to winning so he will take chances to win.
2. It shows he trusts his receivers to make plays
3. It’s part of his game, and if he learns something about the Ints he made, he has learned a lot.
All in all I don’t think Watson is reckless with the ball nor does he crumbles under pressure, his Ints are part of his game, he will try to make plays and to me that’s a very good quality in a QB.
Watson wants to win, that’s why he returned another year. He could have been picked on the top 3 last year, yet he stayed in school.

I think we just don't have enough evidence to make a case for Trubisky, he was a Backup. He could be a good project, I just think putting him in the same level of Watson is just absurd.

j/c:

Obviously, I am hoping the Browns upgrade the QB position this off-season.

Keeping w/the recent "spirit" of the thread, I have to say that I am worried about Hue's ability to evaluate qbs.

--Last year, he brought in RGIII.

--He then drafted Kessler.

--He was said to be ga-ga over Goff.-

--He did not think Wentz had the ability to be a top-20 type qb.

--When he was HC for Oakland, they made a ridiculous trade for Carson Palmer, who had said he was "retiring" from football.

--He also drafted Pryor as a QB!

Man, that is a terrible resume. I'm not sure anyone could do much worse than that. And I didn't even bring up BO.

I'm worried that Hue might like Kizer or Watson.