“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Jethro Tull Emerson, Lake, and Palmer Moody Blues Dire Straits King Crimson Todd Rundgren Warren Zevon Bad Company The Cars Doobie Bros Guess Who Def Leppard
But they find room for a folk singer and a rap artist ... do those genre's not have their own Halls Of Fame?
Here's my impression of a TV infomercial ... But wait, there's more!
Blue Oyster Cult Roxy Music The Tubes Eddie Money Judas Priest Thin Lizzy Peter Frampton Toto Joe Cocker J Geils Band Three Dog Night
Is it arguable whether they should all be in? Of course it is. But the arguments should be about rock artists, not rap, jazz, folk, country-western, blue grass, etc. Those genres have their own HOF.
Or else, just change the name of the place to The American Pop Music HOF.
I don't wanna get into the genre thang, but there is some real talent on that list and frankly I am surprised at some of the omissions. Let's start w/the first one on you list.
Jethro Tull, who was who are too young to remember, was actually led by the iconic Ian Anderson.
I'll provide two songs. I'm hoping for a few evaluations/comments. Then, I'll move on to another deserving member on the neglected list.
Sound cool?
I'm going to add one more that might be appealing to some of our younger folks:
I am a huge fan of Jethro Tull. However, a certain era Tull. In my opinion Tull from '68-71 were an incredible rock band. I would even say they were better than Zeppelin.
Their 1st album featured Mick Abrahams on guitar and is predominately 12-bar British white boy blues. Solid but, the songs that really point to something special happening were songs like "Round", "Dharma For One", "A Song For Jeffrey" and "My Sunday Feeling". However, ego clashes between Abrahams and Anderson meant Mick split (and formed the killer Blodwyn Pig!) and they were in flux with their guitarist. Tony Iommi (Black Sabbath) was briefly a member of Tull until they settled on Martin Barre. Once Barre joined this is when they became a four-headed rock and roll monster.
Second Album, "Stand Up" (1969) is a tremendous mixture of heavy rock, blues and British folk. It has beautiful musicianship and superb songwriting from start to finish. Third album "Benefit" continues where "Stand Up" left off but, rocks harder and has the wonderful song dedicated to Michael Collins (the chap who stayed in the spaceship while Armstrong and Aldrin walked on the moon). Fourth album, "Aqualung" is, however, arguably their creative peak where Anderson's songwriting blossomed and the musicianship exploded with the power of a locomotive train. Tackling difficult subjects such as the British class system and religion with an acid tongue, wit and poetic poignancy not many bands can close to . This album rocks and rolls and blows anything from Zeppelin away (in my humble opinion). Don't get me wrong..Zeppelin were great too but, they lacked originality and while Plant was singing about vikings, fairies, druids and unicorns....Anderson's songwriting was questioning religion in modern society and touched on many very complex issues affecting both British and American society. Martin Barre is also an absolute guitar demon and can rock as hard and as good as Jimmy Page. Shame he was overlooked for Pagey.
Their singles and b-sides between '68-71 are also absolutely phenomenal.
Enter 1972 and "Thick As A Brick" a rock opera of sorts that takes one idea and plays with it on a full extended length album. This is where I admit they lose me and I jump ship. Don't get me wrong...there are some great moments on 'Brick' but, as a whole it just gets a bit self indulgent, tedious, pretentious and wanky. I know very little from the band after "Brick" but, what I do know has never caught my interest like those early couple albums and singles/b-sides.
No good rock and roll collection is complete without "Stand Up", "Benefit" or "Aqualung".
EDIT: Added my two cents on their "Benefit" LP that I omitted in my excitement for "Stand Up" and "Aqualung".
I know Ian was a bit abrasive/snobby and his lyrics on Thick as a Brick are indicative of that. He basically is telling his audience to not clap or sing along. He is preaching at them. He is giving a jaded lecture that admonishes society.
I know people won't read them all, but perhaps if y'all have the patience to read the first few stanzas, you'll get my meaning:
Quote:
Really don't mind if you sit this one out My word's but a whisper your deafness a SHOUT I may make you feel but I can't make you think Your sperm's in the gutter your love's in the sink
So you ride yourselves over the fields And you make all your animal deals And your wise men don't know how it feels To be thick as a brick
And the sand-castle virtues are all swept away In the tidal destruction the moral melee The elastic retreat rings the close of play As the last wave uncovers the newfangled way
But your new shoes are worn at the heels And your suntan does rapidly peel And your wise men don't know how it feels To be thick as a brick
And the love that I feel is so far away: I'm a bad dream that I just had today And you shake your head And say it's a shame
Spin me back down the years and the days of my youth Draw the lace and black curtains and shut out the whole truth Spin me down the long ages: let them sing the song
See there! A son is born and we pronounce him fit to fight There are black-heads on his shoulders, and he pees himself in the night We'll make a man of him, put him to a trade Teach him to play Monopoly and how to sing in the rain
The Poet and the Painter casting shadows on the water As the sun plays on the infantry returning from the sea The do-er and the thinker: no allowance for the other As the failing light illuminates the mercenary's creed The home fire burning: the kettle almost boiling But the master of the house is far away The horses stamping, their warm breath clouding In the sharp and frosty morning of the day And the poet lifts his pen while the soldier sheaths his sword And the youngest of the family is moving with authority Building castles by the sea, he dares the tardy tide to wash them all aside
The cattle quietly grazing at the grass down by the river Where the swelling mountain water moves onward to the sea: The builder of the castles renews the age-old purpose And contemplates the milking girl whose offer is his need The young men of the household have all gone into service And are not to be expected for a year The innocent young master - thoughts moving ever faster - Has formed the plan to change the man he seems And the poet sheaths his pen while the soldier lifts his sword And the oldest of the family is moving with authority Coming from across the sea, he challenges the son who puts him to the run
What do you do when the old man's gone - do you want to be him? And your real self sings the song. Do you want to free him? No one to help you get up steam And the whirlpool turns you `way off-beam
I've come down from the upper class to mend your rotten ways My father was a man-of-power whom everyone obeyed So come on all you criminals! I've got to put you straight Just like I did with my old man twenty years too late Your bread and water's going cold Your hair is too short and neat I'll judge you all and make damn sure that no-one judges me
You curl your toes in fun as you smile at everyone You meet the stares, you're unaware that your doings aren't done And you laugh most ruthlessly as you tell us what not to be But how are we supposed to see where we should run? I see you shuffle in the courtroom with Your rings upon your fingers And your downy little sidies And your silver-buckle shoes Playing at the hard case You follow the example of the comic-paper idol Who lets you bend the rules
So! Come on ye childhood heroes! Won't you rise up from the pages of your comic-books Your super crooks And show us all the way Well! Make your will and testament Won't you? Join your local government We'll have Superman for president Let Robin save the day
You put your bet on number one and it comes up every time The other kids have all backed down and they put you first in line And so you finally ask yourself just how big you are And take your place in a wiser world of bigger motor cars And you wonder who to call on So! Where the hell was Biggles when you needed him last Saturday? And where were all the sportsmen who always pulled you though? They're all resting down in Cornwall Writing up their memoirs for a paper-back edition Of the Boy Scout Manual
See there! A man born and we pronounce him fit for peace There's a load lifted from his shoulders with the discovery of his disease We'll take the child from him Put it to the test Teach it to be a wise man How to fool the rest
We will be geared to the average rather than the exceptional God is an overwhelming responsibility We walked through the maternity ward and saw 218 babies wearing nylons Cats are on the upgrade Upgrade? Hipgrave. Oh, Mac
In the clear white circles of morning wonder I take my place with the lord of the hills And the blue-eyed soldiers stand slightly discoloured (in neat little rows) sporting canvas frills With their jock-straps pinching, they slouch to attention While queuing for sarnies at the office canteen Saying: "How's your granny?" and good old Ernie: He coughed up a tenner on a premium bond win The legends (worded in The ancient tribal hymn) Lie cradled in the seagull's call And all the promises they made are ground beneath the sadist's fall
The poet and the wise man stand behind the gun And signal for the crack of dawn Light the sun. Light the sun Do you believe in the day? Do you? Believe in the day! The Dawn Creation of the Kings has begun Soft Venus (lonely maiden) brings the ageless one Do you believe in the day? The fading hero has returned to the night And fully pregnant with the day Wise men endorse the poet's sight Do you believe in the day? Do you? Believe in the day!
Let me tell you the tales of your life Of your love and the cut of the knife The tireless oppression, the wisdom instilled The desire to kill or be killed Let me sing of the losers who lie In the street as the last bus goes by The pavements ar empty: the gutters run red While the fool toasts his god in the sky
So come all ye young men who are building castles! Kindly state the time of the year And join your voices in a hellish chorus Mark the precise nature of your fear Let me help you pick up your dead As the sins of the father are fed With the blood of the fools And the thoughts of the wise and From the pan under your bed Let me make you a present of song As the wise man breaks wind and is gone While the fool with the hour-glass is cooking his goose And the nursery rhyme winds along
So! Come all ye young men who are building castles! Kindly state the time of the year And join your voices in a hellish chorus Mark the precise nature of your fear See! The summer lightning casts its bolts upon you And the hour of judgement draweth near Would you be the fool stood in his suit of armour Or the wiser man who rushes clear
So! Come on ye childhood heroes! Won't your rise up from the pages of your comic-books Your super-crooks And show us all the way Well! Make your will and testament Won't you? Join your local government We'll have Superman for president Let Robin save the day
So! Where the hell was Biggles when you needed him last Saturday? And where were all the sportsmen who always pulled you through? They're all resting down in Cornwall writing up their memoirs For a paper-back edition of the Boy Scout Manual
So you ride yourselves over the fields And you make all your animal deals And your wise men don't know how it feels To be thick as a brick
Regardless of his tone or message, there is true brilliance in the social critique of these lyrics.
I do not think there should be a doubt that they are in the HOF.
Not a fan of Steve Perry Journey BUT....did you know pre-Perry era Journey were created by Neal Schon and Gregg Rolie? Both of who were in the original Santana band and Ross Vallory was a member of obscure SF psychedelic band, Frumious Bandersnatch. Therefore, before they struck pop gold in the late 70's with Perry's high pitched lungs Journey were actually a pretty cool early 70's hard rock band. Their first three albums are pretty good and in my opinion better than their popular hits. But, I know I am seriously in the minority on that opinion.
Just added some bits about their equally brilliant "Benefit" LP, which I omitted in my inital glee for "Stand Up" and "Aqualung".
Anyway, regarding "Thick As A Brick"...'Aqualung' was being called a "Rock Opera" and Anderson in his wit essentially said to the critics..."you want an opera...I will give you one". The problem I have is that it tells us the story of "Gerald Bostock" but, I personally never find this character/alterego particularly fascinating enough to warrant two full sides devoted to him. Again, I recognize brilliant moments in it but, these are snapshots and I get lost in the tedium. But, I know many love "Brick" more than "Aqualung".
Speaking of Santana...are they in the Hall of Fame? Early-Santana were incredible. I mean, let's talk about one of the quintessential American bands. Blending Latin, Blues, Rock & Afro rhythms. As diverse as our nation and equally as colorful. Again, 68-72 Santana were phenomenal and totally on fire. Watch videos from pre-Woodstock, Woodstock, and just after up until '71/72. Incredible raw energy and a freshness that is so cool. Man, there was not many who sounded like these dudes back then!
I saw them numerous times in Cleveland at Blossom and at the old Rib Festival in the Flats as well as in Kansas City at their Jazz/Blues Fest. But, the early band circa '68/69 are near the top of my list of bands that I wish I saw (but, alas, I am not that old).
I have four live bootleg Santana albums from 1968-69 all pre-Woodstock and all recorded at the Fillmore in SF. Dude, they are so (censored) hot! So tasty, so raw and so unbelievable in their musicianship. I mean the audience at the time must have been totally in awe at what they were seeing and hearing.
I'll start a music thread on Santana one day soon. I have been thinking about starting one on him for awhile now. Not sure how people will receive him, but the guy was outstanding.
Moving on w/the theme of people/bands who should be in the HOF, I am going to skip ELP for now, because we've talked about them a lot recently w/the sad passings of two of their members.
I wanna talk about the Moody Blues. In my opinion, they might be as underrated as any group in the history of rock and roll.
They were so sophisticated. Almost like a cross between a psychedelic rock band and a classical orchestra. It's a magical sound.
The Moody Blues have never gotten their due and some find them trite, but I loved their haunting notes, their songs of despair and loneliness, and their complex arrangement.
It's always hard picking which 2-3 songs to choose. PDX called me out a bit on Tull, but guys, I am not really always picking my favorites.........I'm trying to pick songs that might appeal the most to the masses. So, please don't go off on me if I don't pick your favorite. Just add it to the list.
With all due respect brother, I didn't call you out. I was simply voicing my opinion on early Tull, who I love and later Tull who I struggle with. I actually wrote an article on Tull, which was published in the UK. So, they are a band I have a decent bit of knowledge on albeit biased in the sense that I focus more on 68-71 Tull rather than 72 onwards. But, I definitely wasn't calling you out, nor was that my intention. I was simply sharing.
Okay..........I wasn't getting on you. Just saying why I was choosing the songs I did. Let's keep this positive. I apologize if I worded that incorrectly.
Alright...........I have one more for tonight from Dave's list.
Dire Straits
I think Mark Knopfler is freaking amazing. I love how he toys w/his listeners. He is a picker on the guitar and he kinda "picks" when he is signin'....if that makes any sense?
Dire Straits has a very unique sound. They're kinda bluesy, folksy, and have some jazz thrown in. I read somewhere once where they are the classic pub band and I think the song Sultans of Swing epitomizes that definition.
I'm gonna choose some different songs besides the most popular this time. Well, I might throw in one popular song just in case....
Moodies....I have "Days Of Future Passed", "In Search of The Lost Chord" and "On The Threshold of A Dream". The first two are excellent and, the latter is also very good. "Days" was their collaboration with the London Festival Orchestra and is so lush. A concept suite that begins with the waking of the day and takes you through the afternoon and ending with the nightfall. Combining pop music with classical orchestration was also so incredibly unique and perfect for this record.
"In Search of the Lost Chord" is also an essential Moodies LP. Easily their most psychedelic with odes to LSD and Tim Leary to yoga meditation. These guys were tuned in and turned on and they had the intellect and ability to experiment and keenness to take risks. True artists.
I admit though that I own nothing beyond "Threshold of a Dream" (1969). Not sure why I haven't bothered with buying more but, they have SO many records. I think I just moved on. If I were to buy more it would probably be their 1st, "Magnificent Moodies". An original UK mono copy would be a sweet score.
Everything is subjective, but from this subjective view point, Boston sucked. I saw them in concert twice. They opened for Black Sabbath once and they didn't even sing. [censored] was all piped through the speakers. I saw them in one of those big events...might have been World Series of Rock and a lot of us thought it was a good time to go to the bathroom and walk around. Fake, synchronized music.
Not a fan of Journey, either. But again...........it's all subjective.
But, in retrospect.............earlier, I said to keep it positive. My bad for knocking them. Sorry about that.
I think it's cool to discuss who should be in the HOF or not. Dave's list really surprised me. I can't believe some of these groups/performers aren't in.
With regards to R&R HoF inductees...I think there could be a really cool list of people who should be in the HoF but, are/were not massively popular at the time. Remember, there are some musicians/artists who may not have sold a lot of records but, they influenced generations.
Of course, my list would be very different from the next person's. But, I do think those who are put into the Rock Hall of Fame shouldn't just be because of dollars made/records sold. Sometimes, those lesser known bands could have an entire chapter written about them while the bigger, more popular bands are relegated to a mere footnote in rock history.
Found it. This is an awesome Dire Straits song. Not flashy, but deep rooted in blues, jazz, and fold music. I know that sound strange, but I hear it.
Check out one of the comments from the video on YouTube:
Quote:
Mark Knopler must be an alien, no earth bound mortal musician can ever beat this guy, he is the real deal, great songwriter, lyricist, and master guitarist, the complete package. Plus he could play my broom handle and make it sing like a Strat or a GIBSON
Any Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that doesn't have Styx, Night Ranger, Foreigner, Warrant, (and/or the late Jani Lane) Judas Priest, Def Leppard, The Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Dokken, Slayer, Pantera Blue Oyster Cult, Moody Blues ..... and so, so, so many others ........ but that has inducted Madonna, The Beastie Boys, Donna Summer, and many other artists/groups that are anything but rock and roll, ain't a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to me.
This is a musical performers hall of fame,and I wish they would just rename it as such. Donna Summer ....
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Yep, when the Beastie Boys are in the HoF and those mentioned in this thread are not, that organization has no credibility.
I'm going to disagree with you on this. I'm also not one that is offended that rap artists are in the hall of fame either though.
The Beastie Boys started out as a hardcore punk band and transitioned to rap after they had some modest success incorporating samples into their music. That 3 Jewish white boys from Brooklyn could enter into the rap genre in the 80's and actually be accepted was pretty incredible.
I've always been a huge fan of theirs, they were in fact the first concert I ever saw - it was at the Toledo Sports Arena for the Licensed To Ill tour (think I was in 7th or 8th grade).
While I agree that the list Dave put up has some head scratchers as to why they are no in the hall of fame - I'm shocked at many of them - just because a particular artist isn't liked by someone doesn't mean they don't deserve to be there. They influenced a lot of bands that I like - Rage Against the Machine, Sublime, and Blur to name a few.
Any Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that doesn't have Styx, Night Ranger, Foreigner, Warrant, (and/or the late Jani Lane) Judas Priest, Def Leppard, The Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Dokken, Slayer, Pantera Blue Oyster Cult, Moody Blues ..... and so, so, so many others ........ but that has inducted Madonna, The Beastie Boys, Donna Summer, and many other artists/groups that are anything but rock and roll, ain't a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to me.
This is a musical performers hall of fame,and I wish they would just rename it as such. Donna Summer ....
Warrant? Really? I almost stopped reading at Night Ranger. But Warrant? How much Aquanet did you inhale in the 80's?
Not a fan of Steve Perry Journey BUT....did you know pre-Perry era Journey were created by Neal Schon and Gregg Rolie? Both of who were in the original Santana band and Ross Vallory was a member of obscure SF psychedelic band, Frumious Bandersnatch. Therefore, before they struck pop gold in the late 70's with Perry's high pitched lungs Journey were actually a pretty cool early 70's hard rock band. Their first three albums are pretty good and in my opinion better than their popular hits. But, I know I am seriously in the minority on that opinion.
I AM a fan of Steve Perry Journey, but I do appreciate the little I've heard of pre-Perry Journey. Feelin' That Way is a great song. 'Anytime' is another I like. Perry turned them into more pop-rock but man, that dude could sing. My wife thinks he looked like Cher back then lol.
Their studio albums sound stale compared to their live playing. I have their live album from 1981 and also the DVD of a concert in Houston on their "Escape" tour. Steve Smith was a very good drummer and Neal Schon has always been a favourite guitarist of mine: he makes solos 'sing'. Radio doesn't play enough of their obscure songs: Mother, Father and Stone in Love are two, just off the top of my head.
Edit: 'Escape' is another one. Great driving song.
I'm not a HUGE Rush fan, but for as long as it took for them to get in tells me that this isn't as much about how your style and music ability 'changed the game' as we say of Pro Football HOF Inductees as it should be.
Warrant? Nooooooo.....
Scorpions? Yesssss....
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM my two cents...
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