DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Free Agency chapter 3 ...

Nice to see the Jets as "league worst" rather than us. Thank you, Jets. LOL

Hightower is a good player. I thought he might get a bit more than that, but I am no salary expert.

After four years with Browns, Poyer sees 'great opportunity' with Bills

http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/15/four-years-browns-poyer-sees-great-opportunity-bills/


So far, losing is all Jordan Poyer has known in the NFL.

The safety spent most of the past four seasons with the Cleveland Browns. In that time, the team's record is 12-45.

Poyer is ready for a change. Whether he has come to the right place is debatable, given that his new team, the Buffalo Bills, hasn't been to the playoffs in 17 years.

For Poyer, however, it feels like a definite upgrade.



"I think this is a great opportunity," he said during his recent introductory news conference. "I mean, this is one of the best opportunities I think I’ve ever had in my whole entire life. For sure, coming from Cleveland, being out there the last four years, not winning a whole lot of football games, it’s tough.

"You play this game to win. You put in so much effort and time into your body in the offseason and to not get the results you want is tough."

With the Bills, Poyer is entering the ground floor of a new coaching regime. He's a primary piece in Sean McDermott's efforts to repair a defense that has fallen on hard times the past two seasons.

He will start at safety, next to a fellow newcomer at the position, Micah Hyde. The 6-foot, 190-pound Poyer provides a great deal of athleticism and is a hard hitter. Poyer also can contribute as a punt returner.

He and Hyde met each other two offseasons ago through a mutual friend, Browns linebacker Christian Kirksey, one of Hyde's former teammates at the University of Iowa.

"He’s a great dude, great football player and I’m excited to work with him," Poyer said of Hyde. "I’m excited to play alongside him. I think we can both learn a lot from each other. I’ve watched a lot of his tape. I think both of us (are) versatile players.

"He’s a great athlete, he’s a great player and he’s going to help this team win football games."

There was a time when Poyer seemed destined to try to help a team win games in a different sport. In high school, he was mainly a baseball prospect and didn't draw much recruiting interest for football.

Poyer started out playing baseball and football at Oregon State, but after two years, the heavy athletic load took its toll on his grades. In his junior year, he gave up baseball (he was an outfielder) and decided to focus on being a professional football player.

"If I wasn’t pursuing my dream of playing football in the NFL, it was definitely going to be the MLB because I was damn good at baseball," said Poyer, who was drafted by the Florida Marlins in 2009.

After entering the NFL in 2013 as a seventh-round draft pick of Philadelphia, Poyer spent three games with the Eagles before being released. The Browns claimed him off waivers and he played nine games with them during his rookie season, serving as their main punt returner through the final six weeks. He averaged 14.3 yards per return and was tied for fourth on the team with six special-teams tackles.

Poyer appeared in all 16 games in 2014 as a reserve. He ranked second on the Browns with 13 special-teams tackles. He also had nine stops on defense and returned seven punts for 28 yards.

In 2015, Poyer made three starts at free safety and one at strong safety. He made 37 tackles, including his first career sack and first two interceptions. He also had four passes defensed and a fumble recovery on top of nine special-teams tackles.

Poyer's breakthrough season came in 2016. He started the first six games before taking a vicious hit against Tennessee that caused him to suffer a season-ending lacerated kidney.

"It was a pretty scary situation," said Poyer, who still managed to make a career-best 39 tackles with two passes defensed in the six games. "We all know when we lace our cleats up on Sunday what could happen out there on the football field. It’s a bang-bang play, he just kind of caught me in a position where maybe I should have had my head on a swivel. … Initially I just thought I lost my breath, but I was able to get up and walk away from it and come back and now I’m standing here fully healthy and ready to go play football."

When he left the lineup, the Browns were 0-6. They would go 0-14, after a loss to the Bills, before notching their first win, against San Diego, on the way to a 1-15 finish.

The circumstances weren't exactly conducive to having a great attitude.

"It’s hard to stay motivated," Poyer admitted. "But coming out here, it’s a new opportunity. It’s a new coaching staff, it’s new faces in the locker room. It’s a new opportunity to go out and compete and win games, and that’s what I’m here to do."

If you trade for a guy, expecting him to be your franchise QB, and you give up a 1st and a 2nd, you agree on an extension with the guy before the trade is finished. Seriously, what does it say to the team and fans if you trade a 1st and a 2nd for a "looksie". That kind of trade means that you think highly enough of the guy to make him your franchise QB, and to pay him as such.

I was just responding to the person who was asking what his contract value would be.

And in response to the people "worried" about acquiring a player in the last year of his deal.

At minimum we'd have JG for 3 years. Last year of his deal and two franchise years.

Sure you probably extend him right away.

Just saying you don't HAVE to.

I disagree, though.

You make the kind of deal it will likely take to get him and you are saying "this is our guy". You need to back that up with a long term deal, right from the start.

Congrats, you just worked yourself into a Kirk Cousins situation. A guy that still doesn't want to play for you and now has all the cards. You can't tag him for another year now and he'll tell you what team you'll trade him to and that team will tell you what they will trade for him and you'll have to either do that after year 2 when you still have that tag left as an option or you'll let him go in year 3 for nothing.

Do you think we could get to the Superbowl in 3 years? If not, we gave up a first and a second in your scenario to be right back where we started. You traded away Malik Hooker and Tre'Davious White for a 2-3 year rental.

I am not trying to be mean, but if you are trading a 1st and 2nd rounder without a deal in place, you are playing Russian roulette with a loaded gun.

SB? Maybe.

Playoffs? Possibly this year.

Seriously.

Even if the Browns suddenly get some luck and your maybe pans out and we do make the playoffs (We aren't going to make the Superbowl in 3 years), then we are still back to where we were and without a QB because now every team is willing to pay big bucks to the QB that doesn't want to play for us.

Don't you think winning could change his mind? I'm not saying that will be the case, but if a QB comes here by trade, but isn't ready to sign long term because he doesn't want to be tied to a loser, winning could change his opinion. The reason nobody wants to play here is because we lose. If we win, and look like we're on the rise, minds will change.

Depends on how much we win and if there is dysfunction within the team. Washington has gone 9-7 and 8-7-1 with Kirk Cousins as the starter and he wants out.

I believe I included the phrase "and we look like we're on the rise." If we have dysfunction, we won't look like we're on the rise.

Hard not to be "on the rise" when you only win one game. No place to go but up.

I don't know why we look like we are on the rise. We signed a few offensive linemen and will have Myles Garrett. That, to me, is not on the rise. That's "Hey, maybe we won't suck!"

I was answering Dep's "Even if the Browns suddenly get some luck and your maybe pans out and we do make the playoffs (We aren't going to make the Superbowl in 3 years), then we are still back to where we were and without a QB because now every team is willing to pay big bucks to the QB that doesn't want to play for us."

So we wouldn't be talking about last year's 1 win season, but the advancement from that to making the playoffs. Obviously there are other things that have to happen for us to do that, so you also have to factor in the QB, improvement from players already on the roster, and other additions besides Garrett.

And that, sans your suggested dysfunction, would look very much like a team on the rise.

The Vikings signed Latavius Murray.

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/842252900940292097

This means that AD is done in Minnesota. He has a kind of limited market because he's not great catching the ball out of the backfield, he's not great running the ball of the shotgun, he probably wants to play for a contender, and nobody will want to pay him a bunch because the draft class is so deep at running back.

The Raiders seem like they'd be a fit, but they ran 753 plays from shotgun and 363 from under center. Maybe Washington? I have no clue where he lands.

maybe NYG?

Your sig needs a serious upgrade.

I agree. Nothing is going to change until we solve QB.

I am so excited about our FA moves that I am still unwavering in my intent to cancel Sunday Ticket for the first time in years.

It needs it every few months haha ... the problem is, I don't even know how to update it as of now

I knew exactly what you were saying and why. He is just being difficult.

I don 't believe the Browns are done in free agency and if smart (IMHO) not done securing draft picks and or trading. The Browns history over the last 2-years shows me a couple of things, they value draft picks (to build through the draft) and they are conservative with their money, not cheap but conservative.

First Jimmy G, there is no way in hell this guy is worth a first and a second round pick for 6 quarters of experience. Second, we are currently sitting on a guy (Osweiler) that is a classic example of why you don't gamble on a huge contract for a limited work QB. Jimmy G is not going to sign a long term contract for less than 50 million over 3-years and about 1/2 guaranteed. To think we would trade a 1st and a 2nd for a guy without a long term deal is just foolish thoughts - not going to happen. Finally, let's say the Browns do pull the trigger on Jimmy G, you now have over 32 million in cap invested in the QB position for 2017. We still have to pay Osweiler because no team is going to take his contract and we'd also be paying Jimmy G. The Browns have not shown that they are running that type of organization.

What the Browns have shown me is that they value draft picks and have every intention of building through the draft. Yes, they will sign a few key free agents but they pay fair value. I also think the trade with Houston mostly for the 2nd round pick might have shown the Browns initiative. I also think they are not done and are desperately looking for another 1st round pick for 2018. How and why are the key questions here. First, the QB class for 2017 is weak and any of the QB's will be a reach and surely a work in progress and none classified as franchise QB's. The Browns cannot waste picks on works in progress. Second is the consensus #1 in Garrett. Even with all his talent, major questions still abound about desire and taking plays off. Are the Browns looking for the best talent or the best high desire, high motor, clubhouse leader fit? I say the latter.

I believe the Browns are contemplating putting all their eggs in one basket to draft their franchise QB Sam Darnold from USC in 2018. To do this, they must position themselves for the opportunity. One way is to lose and lose often in 2017. The second way is to have the ammo available to go get him. I say you have to look at what the Browns are currently doing. They have a 2nd round tender on Crowell. Getting another 2nd round pick is crucial to the plan and I expect the Browns to let him go if he gets an offer. I also believe the Browns are shopping Haden for a 2nd round pick as a backup plan. Though some will say it's shocking, I also think the Browns are shopping this years #1 pick overall. As deep as the defensive class is in 2017, not taking Garrett is not a franchise killer.

There are 3 teams I think are potential trade partners for the #1 pick, Jets, Saints, and the Redskins. At an minimum, we would get the #1 this year, #1 next year and a 3rd round year from the trade partner. What this does for the Browns - they still have 2 first round picks this year with an additional 3rd giving them 12 picks this year. In 2018, the Browns will have two first round picks and at a minimum 5 second round picks which they can package to move up and get Darnold. Even if they deal two firsts and two seconds, the Browns would still have the 1st overall and 3 seconds in 2018. Darnold will be the highest rated QB coming out of college since Luck. If I know that, the Browns know that and I believe they are positioning themselves to go after Darnold in 2018. Not to mention that it's better use of the draft picks and comes at about 50% of what they'd have to pay Jimmy G. Plus Darnold has the size for the AFC North being 6'4" and 225 lbs with the ability to escape the rush.

No GM in his right mind is going to risk that though. Cleveland fans will run him out on a rail if we give up 2 picks for a QB that leaves.

I'm not saying don't trade for a QB, but make sure there is a deal in place when you do.

While I see a lot of wisdom in your post generally, and agree with much of what you say, here I will argue that what many have seen as Garrett taking plays off, I see in an entirely different and positive light. He was ranked #45 by PFF among all college DE for defending the run in 2015. He raised that to #3 in 2016. What you call taking plays off, I call staying home on plays going away from him, sealing off the backside to defend against mis-directions, reverses and cut-backs, instead of chasing after the play and leaving the backside vulnerable. I believe he was making a conscious and concerted effort to improve that area of his game, and therefor a more fully rounded prospect.

j/c...

Adam Schefter Verified account
@AdamSchefter

Falcons gave former Chiefs' DT Dontari Poe a one-year, $8 million deal that could increase to $10M with incentives, per source.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/842418878860922880

and what happens if Darnold does not declare for the draft?

I can honestly say I have not watched Garrett but have listened to the analysts.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/myles...g-report-011417

PFF says:
Biggest concerns:
Can get caught upfield in run game
Doesn’t always see crack block coming
While much improved against the run, still has to prove it against NFL offensive linemen
May never be a great run defender
Has not had many opportunities to hold the point in the run game, more of a penetrator/disruptor

CBS Sports says:
WEAKNESSES: Various moves in his pass rush arsenal, but his move-to-move transition requires polish to better counter. Overaggressive and needs to maintain proper position vs. the run to contain the edge and keep the ballcarrier inside. Ability to win at the point of attack is based more on timing and explosiveness rather than core power and can be shielded from run lanes - can get tied up on inside rushes. Logs a lot of snaps, leading to him taking some plays off. Injured his lower left leg on a cut block vs. Arkansas (Sept. 2016) and missed two games and didn't play at full health most of the second half of the season.

This one specifically talks about Garrett's effort.
http://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/3/1474507...own-film-review

DraftExaminer on Garrett: Gives good effort on rushing attempts in his direction but won’t make many plays in backside pursuit; can often be found watching when the play goes to the opposite side of the field. Widely regarded as a top pick, his prototypical frame and elite first step give him the potential to develop into a defensive cornerstone in either an even or an odd front. He needs to be able to better utilize his hands and diversify his approach as a pass-rusher.

NFL Draft Geek says: Injuries have limited his availability, never played more than 70% of snaps in any of his three seasons at Texas A&M. Looked like he took some plays off in his final season. Could refine his pass rush moves some, relied on athleticism a little too often.

GridIron Now says: But one scout told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that Garrett leaves “a lot to be desired.” The scout questioned Garrett’s toughness and strength, although he did credit his athletic ability.
“This guy is supposed to be the certain first pick in the draft but he leaves a lot to be desired,” the scout said. “He’s a good athlete but there are stretches of him not being productive. He’s not really a tough guy. He’s not strong. He’s a flash player. Everything is solid off the field but I don’t think he plays hard. I’d take (Joey) Bosa.”

holy smokes. that seems really cheap.

I have yet to see a player projected as a #1 pick stay in school - he'll declare!

Jake Locker, Matt Barkley, Andrew Luck? Luck stayed after reshirt soph, right?

I've watched some of the tape from last and this year ... I'm not near as impressed with him as I was ... hopefullly I see something when I watch the rest of the tape that I haven't seen yet ...

Go watch the tape ... there's two parts of the reports you posted that are significant concerns of mine ...

If folks took/had the time to watch the tape ... they'd come away with some questions I believe ...

Super cheap. I thought he would just about double that. I think he is looking for a ring.

Report: Johnathan Hankins looking for $10 million-plus per year

Posted by Josh Alper on March 16, 2017, 2:53 PM EDT


Defensive tackle Dontari Poe signed with the Falcons on Thursday and that leaves four unattached players in the top 50 of PFT’s Hot 100 list of free agents.

One of those players is defensive tackle Johnathan Hankins, who became a free agent after playing out the final year of his four-year rookie deal with the Giants. There hasn’t been much discussion of Hankins since free agency opened a week ago, however, and it appears his contract demands are playing a role in creating that quiet market.

Jordan Raanan of ESPN.com reports that Hankins is asking for more than $10 million per year. Poe and Bennie Logan, who signed with the Chiefs, both got $8 million on one-year deals. That length is also reportedly an issue for Hankins with Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald reporting that Hankins is looking for a multi-year agreement.

If those are Hankins’ demands, he’s not finding any buyers and deals don’t often get bigger the further you move away from the start of free agency. Poe took visits with three other teams before signing in Atlanta, so there may be a landing spot for Hankins but it does appear he’ll need to recalibrate what he’s asking for to get something moving.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...llion-per-year/

Actually, Luck was a redshirt freshman and his decision to stay in 2011 was because he didn't feel ready. Luck actually left with a year of eligibility left.

Barkley was at one time considered a possible 1st round pick but injuries and scouting eventually left him never being considered for a 1st round pick.

You are correct about Locker - forgot about him but that's easy to do considering his career and being only the 6th QB (now 7)since 2000 to be drafted in the first round coming out of college with a career losing record.

Patrick Ramsey
Kyle Boller
J.P. Losman
Jay Cutler
Josh Freeman
Jake Locker
Jared Goff

Not exactly great company with only Cutler having any serious success in the NFL.

Which is likely at this point.

Then it's just Josh Rosen (if he declares), Lamar Jackson (if he declares), and Josh Allen (if he declares).

Matt Leinart.

Ball room dancing.

Mariota too.

LOL...........way to be objective. You only posted the negatives. You do realize that a lot of people on this board do their own research right and they can see through the BS? Right?

Wow what a nice signing for them. I figured he'd get paid way, way more than that. SB ring chasing perhaps...

That's a great deal for Atlanta. Nice to see a guy chasing the glory over the g's

Hmmm, I suppose that not questioning his talent was negative? This post was not a reason for drafting Garrett but reasons why the FO might be considering trading the #1 pick for more picks this year and next. When all you read is how great he is you have to wonder what his faults might be. Lack of desire, poor motor, lack of strength, and taking plays off are a concern. The question you have to ask then is Garrett the franchise player some analysts are making him out to be?

I think it's only wise to consider if getting two players will be of a better benefit to the Browns or is Garrett guaranteed to be so great that he is worth possibly two other choices and getting another 1st next year along with our 2 firsts still this year and most likely another 3rd round pick. Those are the questions that must be answered - you can find many reasons everyday as to why to draft Garrett - what's the alternative and thus the basis of the post. It certainly is worth exploring when you are talking 2 1st round picks and a 3rd round pick for one. Also, what is available next year potentially and would those gained picks give us better value.

I say it's better to talk about it and explore our options. After all, we were 1-15 and Garrett is not our biggest need. Especially since we have had a run defense that has basically sucked for 20 plus years and it's his weakest area. Just saying...........

I have been hoping the Browns would draft Garrett since the first time I saw him in his opening game in 2015.

He plays the second most impactful position on the field. He is an athletic freak of nature that teams game plan against. I think he is an impact player at an impact position. I think it would be ignorant to pass on him.

Now, can we get back to free agency? There is actually a draft forum where you can post your thoughts on Garrett.