DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Anybody hope we lose out?!?!?!

We know that Detroit and Oakland are going to be ahead of us and common sense would seem to dictate Quinn to Detroit and Johnson to Oakland. If we lose at Houston this week, there's a good chance we'll get a shot at Thomas. Depending on how it plays out between us and the Bucs who'll most likely lose at Chicago.

If we win at Houston and Arizona loses, we'll probably not have the opportunity to get Thomas. We'll also vault Houston ahead of us and lose the opportunity to get Peterson as well.

If Thomas is your guy, winning this week will really suck for us.

Outland winners usually are very good COLLEGE linemen..that doesn't mean the NFL is getting the best linemen..as some are unable to live up to the hype..but some do.

aye, the point was more of Is Thomas really, truly good enough to warrant that pick, or is he just flavor of the month on here because he's the top rated OL and we're (again) hard up for OLine so we want whoever we can get?

http://www.footballsfuture.com/news/2006/12/michigan-underclassmen-decisions.html

Who knows till after Bowl Games

I think what comes out of Savages mouth draft day will be determined more by FA signing than anything, If we address the O-line in Fa with a Tackle, 2 guards, do we pass on a Branch type player at # 3 ?...Do you really think Savage would draft Branch or Thomas at # 3, or will he try to walk his way back wards in the first round accumulating a couple picks in the process, until he get in the 8-12 range and grab BPA, ?. Theres alot of sinarios that can happen between now and April....Personnelly I do believe Savage gets it, but sometimes what ya need dosent fit with when ya draft and talent in the draft.

LMAO.. Look.. Polly wants a tackle!

I don't see Opie going two OG's in FA, and there are no OT's worth overpaying for..the ones available are like what we've had in here and I want no part of that <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I see maybe one FA guard brought in..
Why only one? I heard part of Opie's recent presser and he said they wanted to take a look at the young guys they brought in mid-season plus Sowells...
So I think Phil will look at whats there at 3 or 4 ..PERHAPS entertain any GM's offer's to trade down and evaluate such a move vs taking whats on the board.
I know what the pick should be ..but thats me..

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I can't talk for the rest of the board (shoot me if I ever attempt it) but I've seen Thomas a bunch this year.....I mean a bunch......and I see things in him that I didn't see in Gallery.

I wasn't nearly as high as everyone else in the world was on 'Brick. I thought that while he's a true technician in the passing game, he could easily be bull-rushed and wouldn't be anything in the run game. Here's the stat:

As pathetic as we've been at run blocking, we've only managed to eek out 3.5 yards per carry. So how about the Jets?

3.6. <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

The difference is that Thomas has far greater power and strength, though he isn't the technician that 'Brick is.

I didn't care for Gallery like most did, and I didn't care for 'Brick like most did. I do like what I see in Thomas more than I did with those guys. I'd also note that if he's gone, I don't like the idea of taking Baker out of USC or Brown out of Penn St. this early in the draft.[/color]

Fair question. Here's my take on him:

[color:"white"] Positives[/color]
The biggest thing I like about him is that he has great feet. He is an athlete, having played TE and on the DL before. He can get to the second level on both pulls and traps. He comes out of his stance real quick and plays w/real good technique. He is 6'8" and has the frame to add more weight.

[color:"white"] Negatives [/color]
I think he is a little light right now. He would probably be pushed around by some of the stronger d-ends, and that is why I don't see him playing RT in his first year. Let me clarify..........some say that you plug a rook in at RT and let him get experience before he moves to the all-important LT position. However, Thomas' strength is his feet and mobility, not his power. His leg strength is the biggest question and he did have a bad knee injury in college.

[color:"white"] Bottom line [/color]
His great feet, mobility, size, and technique make him a legit LT who will do well in the NFL His negatives can be overcome. I think he is very similar to DaBrick, who came out last year. I think he was the # 3 overall pick and has started all year for the Jets.

Hey Toad here is something I was thinking about last night.
Lets say that Quinn goes 1, The WR goes 2.
That leaves us at 3 with Thomas Branch and Peterson on the board.
We sign an OL in FA and here comes the calls.
Arizona calls offering their 1st and 2nd round picks. Probably looking at moving down 2 or 3 places in the first.
Is Thomas in your own studys/views good enough to draft rather then take that trade?

I have seen enough of Baker and Brown not to select them.

I have seen Thomas for a game or 2, and thought that he was very good.

Branch..at this point he seems undecided.

Vince Young went #3 as Brick went #4 respectively... All the same though, pretty acurate breakdown...

Speaking of the Jets, amazing that they grabbed the Highest rated LT and Highest rated Center in last years draft and are actually in the hunt for the playoffs all by having a complete Coaching Staff overhaul... Imagine that... <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Speaking of Young....that kid is a player. It isn't often a team rides the back of a rookie.

Young is going to do well in this league.

I know.. I WAS DAMNED wrong about him... It is going to be interesting to see how he does once they integrate more into the playbook for him..

I live in Wisconsin and have watched them several times. Some might not like my take and think that since I live here it is homer ism but I believe Thomas to be the real deal. The kid is a beast in the run game. I constantly see him pancake the opposing DLmen. He also rarely gives up a sack on passing downs.

If Thomas is there and we pass I want PS fired on the spot. I don't even want him here long enough to draft for us in round 2.

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Could easily fall that way. In fact, I think that's probably the most likely scenario, though it's very early.

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Did we sign a solid left tackle or a right tackle? Are we moving Shaffer or not? If we're leaving Shaffer at LT, no, I don't take the trade and draft Thomas. I also don't take the trade unless the Cards are offering their '08 1st round pick. If the Cards give us their '08 1st rounder and this year's 2nd, maybe, because the Cards aren't too far away from being a decent team.

I'm taking Thomas unless the offer is really strong, which is to say stronger than what the draft value chart suggests.

There's only one left tackle that may come on the market which would be worth exploring. That guy is Jeff Backus. He's not a strong run blocker but is better in pass protection. He's far from great, but would be servicable. Only then would I consider moving away from Thomas (since that's what we'd be doing at #3) for draft picks. [/color]

That yard per carry to prove a point is HORSECRAP toad and u know it ... you wanna attempt to make some type of conclusion about a rookie LT based on his teams ypc??? *LOL* ..thats a joke ...

rookie LT's need time and u know it .. hell Pace and Ogden got eaten up their rookie years ....

I really can't believe u just did that ... so does that mean that Mangold sucks to as hes a rookie Center ... *L* ..

I';d LOVE TO HAVE THOSE TWO for the next decade .... well unless we have Thomas and La of course ... my unit gets hard just thinking about it ...

PLEASE DONT BLOW IT WITH A WIN ....

[color:"white"] Attack [/color] .. U must have missed my point .. If Opie dont draft Joe does it really matter what he does .. WERE SCREWED ANYHOW cause that would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Opie dont get it on many many levels ..

[color:"white"] Vince Young [/color] .. its way to early ... that boy is not an NFL QB at this point .. all he does is RUN RUN RUN ... looks alot like Vick at this point ... he needs time ...

[color:"white"]Try watching him block sometime <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> He doesn't get any push, and at 290 during the year, probably never will. The difference between he and a guy like Pace is natural push, while they learn to pass protect as they get better. 'Brick was allready touted as a technician, but doesn't have the body to put on 15-20 pounds to create push in the run game.

If you want to blow off that stat, that's your perogative, but try watching him play. The book on him was that he'll never be a good run blocker and can get pushed around. He's played well for a rookie, but he doesn't have the upside that Pace, Jones, or even Thomas has. His size prevents him from being a dominant player, and that is reflected in the rushing yards.[/color]

[color:"orange"]Wow...couple things - I saw a list of strength of opponents?? Tampa actually had a tougher schedule wow...so we are going to be 3....In the spirit of the thread. Dorsey you better not have your career game <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

As far as Detroit...they are happy with Backus at LT the rest of their OL sucks.
They need a Franchise QB for crying out loud that one is a no brainer they got Kitna starting for them. Quinn will be their pick. If Millen spazzes out then he will take Brohm or Russell over Quinn.

Raiders...Everyone signed off on Gallery - they are not giving up on him after one year at LT - noway they draft another LT. Next best QB or Calvin Johnson - pretty much a nobrainer.

Us that leaves us with Joe Thomas...Dorsey don't you dare <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" /> - of course if we beat Texans we are picking 6 or 7 most likely.

We will not take Peterson at #3. Even if we sign Leonard Davis in FA - now I'm torn cause that might be the only way we don't take Joe Thomas. But that could be the only way we pass on Thomas. But there is noway in heck that we pass on Joe Thomas cause of the Shaffer signing. That contract will pale in comparison to what contracts are going to look like pretty soon. With the Cap getting higher that sum becomes less.

Also lets dispell one other thing. If Joe Thomas is picked...he is NFL ready at LT there is no way in heck he starts his career at RT...over who Shaffer??? I would love to sign Leonard Davis and pick Joe Thomas and there are our LT (JT) and RT (LD) for sometime to come. I don't care if we gave LD LT money...Shaffer will play LG and he better play it Pro-Bowlish within 2 season or he will be out on his butt!!!

There is my dream OL for the Browns starting with 07 and lasting as a unit for at least 4 years. Locked in.
Joe Thomas....Shaffer....Bentley...Sowells...Leonard Davis
Backups: Andruzzi or Friedman Fraley or Smith Dorsey or Butler.
And if need be over the next 3 years we can upgrade on our OGs through the draft.

I think by the time the draft comes we will be slotted in...meaning there is 95% certainty with all who are pick is and who are the 1-2 picks. My fear is that one of the QBs will become active if CF is determined by the coaches after their review to not be our starter to take us places.

My interest is who would we choose to take in the 2nd round. I think that is where we will get our DL. And if he is available I would dream that we would take OKOYE...I'm telling you and all who will listen. When all is said and done...3-5 years from now Health Willing. Okoye will be the best DLman to come from this draft...I think he will be challenging for ONE of the BEST Ever Types - this kid will be good!!!

I just hope one time...lord...one time we draft my guys! Make it this year.
Joe Thomas in round 1
Okoye in round 2.
<img src="/images/graemlins/azzangel.gif" alt="" /> please <img src="/images/graemlins/azzangel.gif" alt="" />
Thank you in advance <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You are posting a "dream" line and that is all the better you can do?? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Right now, I hope Bentley can walk without aide let alone play, and Sowells....well....lets just hope he works out because we sure seem to have much banking on him.

OK .. now your talking .... I can understand and relate to those things .. there FOOTBALL RELATED ... and if those things are true (witch based on your track record they prolly are ... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ... ) then it sounds like he will be one dimensional and be a good protecter of Chad and whoever follows blindside ...

anyhow that tells me sumpting about the boy as opposed to some STUPID ASS STAT that oh by the way ... reflects on the entire OL .. not just him .. cause they could run up the middle or to the right and then his lack of push wouldnt' matter so much ..

and now i gotta watch him this week to confirm what u say ... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]U must have missed my point .. If Opie dont draft Joe does it really matter what he does .. WERE SCREWED ANYHOW cause that would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Opie dont get it on many many levels ..
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No I get your point..I said we don't KNOW for sure he'll draft him if he's sitting right there...it seems likely he would since he said they view LT s a skill position.
But people say one thing and do completely opposite stuff sometimes.
So he put it out there and on paper he said the right thing..but on some levels I doubt it..
Why? If the first LT is off the board it doesn't mean there isn't another viable one and I can't help but feel he would bypass the next one(who's still probably better than Shaffer <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) if he couldn't get the priemer guy..
But How many times has a stud linemen been within our grasp and someone went another direction?
So should I get my hopes up?
I won't be sitting on the edge of the seat next year..not unarmed <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

wow ... your dream line has an underachieving lazy bum on it .. why do u want one of those??? my dream line wouldn't have one of those on it .. but to each their own ... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .... didnt u see enough of that with big waste of money?? cause thats all fatso will be ... another huge waste of money .. only difference will be the nickname .. *L*

"Joe Thomas....Shaffer....Bentley...Sowells...Leonard Davis"

That's a $100,000,000 o-line that will have trouble running the ball,cause the guards suck.
Shaffer can't run block now,put him down inside he's going to be worse,because he isn't athletic enough and he's slow out of his stance,a horrible combination for a guard.
Soweels?If he isn't ready enough this year,to play in front of Kinky and god knows who else we've had at guard,than he is not magically gonna get it between now and next year.
You put that o-line onthe field next year,week 8 it's by-by Romeo,and PS would be gone at year's end.

[color:"white"]

The book on 'Brick was that he'd hit the league being "nfl-ready." The primary concern was that he couldn't keep enough weight to be physical in the league. The eye-ball test tells me that he still looks skinny (if you can call 290 skinny <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> ) for an NFL left tackle, and I don't see a frame that can carry another 20 pounds for 20+ weeks. Now I can say that the book on Thomas is less about technical ability and more about upside, but I'll gladly trade off some technical pass-blocking expertise if it means blowing people off the LOS in the run game. At 313, he's supposedly got room to put on muscle, but even if he doesn't, he's still plenty big enough as-is. In that regard, I have to say I like him better than 'Brick, as he does know how to get to the 2nd level and hit his man.

I think he'd be a better investment at 3 than 'Brick was at 4 last year. I know that I don't have to tell you not to just take my word for it <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

*L* .. dude U still dotn' get my point .. I am not saying we'll draft him for sure ..

my POINT IS .... if we don't for whatever reason .. it means were SCREWED ANYHOW ... cause it means Opie dont' get it .. I'm not saying he will draft him .. i'm saying if we dotn' no matter what opie does were done cause Opie SUCKS and do't get it ..

it has nuttin to do with getting your hopes up .. this is Opies moment of truth .. the others didnt get it .. they pased on OLman in rnd 2 and 3 (none of them had this opportunity in rnd 1) THERE GONE .. this will be Opies truely defining moment .. if he fails he don't get it and like the past regimes will be ignore the OL and be gone .... so were SCREWED no matter what he does if it isnt thomas ..

capiche??? .. if not i give up .. *L*

PS. if u truely understood my point .. you would'nt be pointing out past failures and us not getting our hopes up .. cause my point has ZERO to do with that .. my point solely focuses around opie being a BUM if he dotn take Joe ..

it sounds like hed be a better investment than Brick was ... I like Vers's assesment of Joe (even though Vers needs to grow up .. he knows his stuff .. *L*) .. and it sounds like he has a real good skill set and PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES like a big frame ... GREAT FEET for a guy his size that can't be taught ..

and i'm not one that looks at weight much ... if Brick can block guys an push them of the line I could care less how much he weighs .. granted weight helps in that .. but technique can also go along way ...

the thing I love the most about Joe .. a FORMER TE .. that bodes well ..

Iam starting to get a sick feeling in my gut that were gonna win Sunday .. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I don't think DaBrick is one dimensional at all. He is light and can be overpowered at times. He is not a bulldozer type, but he has great feet, great mobility, and good instincts. All of that makes him very good at the second level, and as you know....that's huge. It turns 3 yd. gains into long, long runs. He is okay at the point of attack in the running game because he is so good technically.

He is NOT a one dimensional player. He's a freaking rook and has started all year. He will get better.

Earlier, I said that Thomas reminds me of DaBrick. I think their skill set is very similar. Bottom line.........they both have great feet. The one thing about Thomas is that he has the frame to put on more weight. His weakness right now is lack of strength, but that can be fixed. He could eventually be better than DaBrick.

I won't compare him to Jones, Pace, and Ogden. Too hard to do at this point. You probably remember when I told you guys you were nuts for wanting Dorsey in rd. 1 a few years ago. Well, I ain't saying anyone is nuts for wanting Thomas. I would love for the Browns to draft him. Of course, I'm still not sold that Opie will take him.

One more thing.........we are talking like we have already lost to Houston. I know we suck and Houston beat Indy last week.....but, they suck too. And just a week ago, tab was saying there was no way we could lose to either Tampa Bay or Houston, because we were so much better than them. LOL....but anyway.....can you imagine if we [censored] win???

Oh.........The horror. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes_devil.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]

Told ya not to eat that 7th helping of turkey and dressing <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I felt the same pang yesterday around 4pm. Then I remembered that Ken Dorsey is our new QB.

There..........don't ya feel better now? *L*

Here's another kicker. David Carr is quite possibly playing for his job. Unlike Dorsey, he's got something to play for, hehe. [/color]

I got your point.....I just don't know if I agree with it.

I think much depends on what he does......if the right trade offer comes, who we get in FA, what he might do if he does go another direction.

I agree, the O-line sucks, and if Thomas is what he is professed, it would be hard to pass on the guy....

But I think we have to wait and see how it all transpires.....but I do agree something has to take place THIS year. If his plan is to go with what we have and bank on Sowells being any good, then I agree, we are screwed and might as well dump that guy and start with something fresh.

I said I got it...dang what more U want? <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] it has nuttin to do with getting your hopes up [/color]

It's my team gettin' jerked by the horns if the right thing isn't done.
He 's calling the shots..so if he doesn't do it.... <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />
Only way he could escape is if the Browns beat the Texans <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" />..or if The Lions or Raiders go Oline...and I don't think the Raiders will, they're trying to unload Moss..means they want a WR..
Lions? I don't know what they want and I doubt if they do..well the fans want Millen's mug on a platter..


[color:"red"] my point solely focuses around opie being a BUM if he dotn take Joe .. [/color]

I know what YOUR point focused on but mine was just to include how I felt..
I have a more colorful name for him and that failure will LUMP him with the other idiots who called the shots..I D I O T..MUCH BETTER name.

[color:"white"]

You freakin' Grinch.......stop ruining Christmas with your slanderous propaganda.......[/color]

Take heart.. Vegas has us 4 point dogs. YAY!!!

<img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I don't know. I thought the additions of Mangold and brick pretty much made the jets a playoff team. And where does 290 come from? He's listed in multiple places at 312.

I was typing alot of the same things at the same time u were .. Imagine that ..

including us winning ... this has all the makings of a W for us ...

2 horrible games in a row ... and Houston more than likely gonna have a major letdown after the Indi win .. it all sets up nice for us to get our hearts broken just one more time ...

[color:"white"] Toad [/color] - I'm actually wishing he'd start DA .. i figure Dosey healthy is better than DA with a seperated throwing shoulder .. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"] Peenie [/color] the way i look at it .. is if we end up at #3 .. all other off season plans should be made around taking Thomas there ...

there are very few positions/players I wouldn't pass up by trading down .. this is one of them .. a LT is a position u dont' get to draft very often .. so u dotn' trade down when u can get one .. PERIOD!!!!!!!

and then if by some miracle Detroit or Oak should take Joe .. U have a contingency plan in place to move down ..

but if Joe's there .. u stay put no matter whats offered to move down ...

[color:"red"] the others didnt get it .. they pased on OLman in rnd 2 and 3 (none of them had this opportunity in rnd 1) THERE GONE [/color]

Now how did I overlook that remark when it was part of my comment?

Gotcha!

[color:"orange"] 1 Cleveland Browns Courtney Brown DE Penn St.
2 Washington Redskins
(from New Orleans) LaVar Arrington OLB Penn St.
3 Washington Redskins Chris Samuels OT Alabama
[/color]
Clark was the only other one who had the chance to do it.

Sorry, I just don't agree with that.

I understand your position on LT and how it would impact the whole plan, but I don't think you close your eyes to other options.

I am one who feels you don't have to have a super LT...I am not going to debate the merits of Shaffer....but you can get by with a good LT.

If we were offered a good deal, we should take it. We need quality, but we also need quantity.

I had this conversation with Toad...we might debate what is a good deal and what isn't, but if what would generally be considered a good deal came about, I think we should take it. I think there are scenarios that could have greater impact on this team than Thomas alone. Both short and long term, and it doesn't have to be some dream deal like the Hercial Walker trade. I wouldn't give the guy away. Someone would have to make it worth my while, but somewhere in there is a gain worth the loss.

But it takes us back to where we started.....is Savage able to get it done?

[color:"white"]

The selections of Mangold and 'Brick solidified an offensive line in horrible disarray. It didn't make them a playoff team. 'Brick hasn't been as good as advertised, but he's been solid. However, if there's a lesson to be had by viewing the Jets, it's that we can fix an O-line in one offseason <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Every year there's a team that does well even though they aren't that good. This year, it's the Jets. Here's some interesting facts that you wouldn't associate with a playoff team:

Pennington: 16 TD's and 16 INT's for an 81. 7 rating. He should have several more INT's but the Dolphins have dropped several just in their two games, at least two in this past game.

They are averaging 3.6 yards per carry as a team, 4.6 to the opposing team.
They have 30 less 1st downs than their opposition
They have 400 less total yards
They have 375 less rushing yards
They have 100 less passing yards
They have 1 less touchdown
The teams they've beaten:

Browns, Dolphins, Dolphins, Texans, Packers, Vikings, Lions, Titans, Patriots.

They rank 25th in the league in total defense.

Crazy, eh?

Now, the 290 comes from a debatable number predicated on how linemen like 'Brick often have a very hard time keeping their playing weight up. The numbers we get on the listings are at the start of the year, not where they end up. Just looking at him will tell you he's not in the 3-teens.

Setting all that aside, the entire point was to compare his game to Thomas's. In the bigger picture, I think Thomas can be better than 'Brick can be simply because he has the frame to gain, and maintain, his weight. 'Brick will probably be more of a shield-blocker than a true drive-blocker. That's what Thomas can become, which I think fits better with the wannabe-personna of what we all envision Browns football should be. [/color]

That's the big question. He scares me.

Hell, there are some people on here actually justifying taking Calvin Johnson w/our pick. Far-fetched?

Well.........I thought it was far-fetched when people were saying we might take Leon. I was laughing my ass off at them. Too bad the joke was on me. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

I really have no clue what he will do. I wanna say that him drafting Johnson is ludicrous, but I can't quite bring myself to say it. But....I don't think he will draft Johnson.

I could see Phil taking Peterson. And I can hear how many of you will say that you understand his thinking. <<sigh>>