DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Anybody hope we lose out?!?!?!

[color:"red"]The teams they've beaten:

Browns, Dolphins, Dolphins, Texans, Packers, Vikings, Lions, Titans, Patriots.
[/color]

HUH?
We beat the Jets...

[color:"white"]I'll absolutely understand his thinking...............just as long as he manages to fix the O-line first or at the same time.[/color]

I am one who likes Johnson as IMO he is the best player in this draft....but I don't want him.

I could justify the pick and in time he would prove me out, but in this place and time, it wouldn't be the best thing we could do.

[color:"white"]Huh.........what?[/color]

I said we beat the Jets.

[color:"red"]"You are posting a "dream" line and that is all the better you can do?"

[color:"orange"]I know you said it in jest...but I meant a realistic dream with few moves.
The biggest part of the dream is Bentley comes back 100% <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> as I see you do to.

As for Sowells - who knows??? He will be as much a stud as he is a bust??? who knows. What I do know a young OG can fit in at RG with any draft...its done with many a top line year in and year out (not talking 6th rounders...4th round or better).

Worse case scenario Andruzzi goes to RG - his speed is more suited for RG anways...and we always got Tucker. I didn't include him cause a Patella I can guesstimate Bentley will be back. With some mental disorder...who knows what that means and what that projects to??? I don't have a clue. I would love to see Tucker moved to RG.

JMHO

[color:"white"]Oh....doh. *L* I'd deleted "Bills" instead of "Browns" on my original posting as I had them next to each other and didn't double-check.

Now I suppose you're going to try and tell me that we didn't win the Super Bowl last year <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

Which really makes me believe that the kid is either a bust or Romeo has his head up his [censored]...

Why try? U'll only miss type it <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]"That's a $100,000,000 o-line that will have trouble running the ball,cause the guards suck."

[color:"orange"]Well 100 mil total contracts yes. Maybe close to it...will they all see it?

Please note what you all fail to see is this is my best for 07...we aren't going to make wholesale changes...one FA one draft. Me I have a thing for the Corners and I want a running game here. Those would be two good corners barring the fatso jokes from Diam. As for the "guards suck" statement. I still say Shaffer would transition well to OG...if not he will be gone. Lets see...Shaffer is athletic enough to play LT but not athletic enough to play LG...ummm ya otay <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Sowells...cause he's not playing this year? So he sucks? You know squat and your assumption is lame. At least I state - I don't know either way. With RAC unless there is an absolute need I don't see him playing a 4th round pick at anyposition - Andruzzi n Coleman got dinged all season but neither hit the IR to think of rushing Sowells into the mix. So Pool n Jones Suck! cause neither was able to play SS ahead of Crocker last year <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> same analogy.

[color:"red"]"You put that o-line onthe field next year,week 8 it's by-by Romeo,and PS would be gone at year's end."

[color:"orange"]Blow it out your arse <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sowells is the only??? thats why I got him at RG the easiest transition position. Tucker could be a player there??? Andruzzi too.

Sowells...several 4th rounders are starting there with decent lines year 1 or 2 its a sound assumption. But that would be the question mark regarding talent.

I got news for you...that would be the best OL we ever had! With Joe Thomas and Davis at the corner and Bentley in the middle - do you even understand how that improves your OGs. And I don't consider either as the bum flavor of the month Shaffer n Sowells that is.

Now you went and pissed off eo... Way to go there Chief... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Eo... Not trying to instigate anything here but am really curious how you can state a scenerio that has Sowells starting at RG next year knowing we haven't seen squat from him this year... and then turn around in the SAME post and state that RG is the easiest transition for rookie guards...

Guess what I am trying to comprehend is how ANYONE thinks this kid is going to be ANY kind of an upgrade over what we currently have, when he cannot even beat out the slugs ahead of him...

If RG is so easy to transition into, wouldn't it stand to reason that Sowell's could have done just that?

[color:"orange"]Eo - I would love to see Thomas in the 1st and Okoye in the 2nd (though I think we will need to trade up back into the 1st to get him), then come back in the 3rd and grab another o-lineman this time a guard as there should be several good guards available in round 3 - probably not Grubbs or Beekman but possibly Ramirez Texas Tech, Duckworth Auburn, Satele Hawaii, Jones Iowa or Kyle Young Fresno State (currently a center but could play anywhere on the line and from what I have read it sounds like even LT). [/color]

[color:"orange"]Simple...you two are assuming he sucks only on one factoid - he wasn't competing against talent that you think sucks...namely Coleman.

When I say we had no major injuries.
RAC doesn't play rookies unless there is a glaring need. When also we find out by midseason as a precaution we started to school Sowells at OT not concentrating him on one position...RG. Not because Sowells was sucking at OG so we went another area...but because that is when the mysterious Illness was befalling Tucker. That became an area of need.

RAC would start Coleman & Freidman over probably a 2nd round OG pick cause he values the ability of recognition and experience over raw talent.

If RAC had a propensity to play rookies over Vets simply because their Raw Talent was better. I would say you and Brownie have a good point. But he has never shown that to be the case...its always been who gets it rather than who has the better upside.

Do I know...nah I don't. But I can see him sitting and learning all rookie season and become a stud in 07 that is not an improbability. I'm surrounding him with Davis and Bentley. RG is an easy transition and by year 2 even in RAC's world he should be ready to compete. If its the same in year 2...thats where I sit and agree with you two and assume he's a bust. Until then I have to think a 4th round talent in the 06 draft at OG will be a definate competitor for the starting position and could actually become quite good.

JMHO

Good way of looking at it...

I guess I was trying to understand the disconnect that Shaff would be able to slide right into Guard slot providing your previous scenerio of draft and FA but yet Sowells (a college Tackle) couldn't do the same thing for us this season...

At any rate, with RAC's timidness to play out his rookies, who can say he won't pull the same old B.S. if we take Joe Thomas.. The WHOLE world knows he would be leaps and bounds over Shaff but nothing would burn me up more for him not to start ATLEAST at some position on this O-Line... He is too gifted and will have too much $ invested in him not too...

any way you slice it, RAC's philosophy SUCKS and only keeps us grounded in mediocrity... I am a PEON when it comes to Football knowledge and readily admit that but I do KNOW one thing, you start the people that give you the BEST chance to win EVERY SUNDAY PERIOD!! It sure is something how some of these kids have been doing ok when given the opportunity to show what they have...

At any rate, thanks for the reply..

What is with this Rac doesn't play rookies virus that spreasds through the posters minds?
He plays rookies...but they have to earn the spot.

[color:"red"]"with RAC's timidness to play out his rookies, who can say he won't pull the same old B.S. if we take Joe Thomas."

[color:"orange"]With Shaffer on the team and having played LT...and lets say we also go and sign Davis as well a better LT than Shaffer from the FA market.

Then it will come down to WHEN Thomas Signs. Note BE signed late and he didn't start till week what. Wimbley signed early and he was starting from day 1.

RAC will do it that way...even if Thomas signs late but knows our plays and did his studying as he got instructions from the mini-camps and seems to make the adjustment he could climb his way to the starting job by the Opener. If he's lazy and not prepared when he comes into camp...early pick or not. We don't have the need - the lesser talents Davis and Shaffer will prove more able to RAC than a Rook messing up the works in practice. OL sucks cause unlike WR and many other positions...its not rotational - usually what is out there Game 1 stays unless injuries occur.

[color:"red"]"RAC's philosophy SUCKS and only keeps us grounded in mediocrity... I am a PEON when it comes to Football knowledge and readily admit that but I do KNOW one thing, you start the people that give you the BEST chance to win EVERY SUNDAY PERIOD!!"

[color:"orange"]Trust me I'm not a big fan of this...but I truly understand exactly what he is doing and I admire him for sticking with it rather than feel his job is more important than the integrity of what he wants to build here. That is why he is getting much heat about BE...he should have sat his butt a while ago he is jeopardizing his integrity in a way.

But he wants perfection. He runs his practice and expects perfection. Guys like Coleman and Druzzi with mega experience look smooth and experienced...they recognize the calls the reads. What I think RAC loses out though on game day is sometimes these kids with mega talent...thrown in a game situation just go beserk and their talent really shines and could be difference makers. Sure they sort of muck up the scheme sometimes cause they aren't in the right place right time. But when the thinking is all said and done and now it comes time for simple competition...talent wins out. But I admire RAC cause he wants these rookies to do things correctly...with perfection. their raw talent isn't going away. It hurts RAC now but next year and next year the raw talented rookies are better than if they played and made mistakes...like a Lavar Arrington he's in year 7 making the same mistakes as a rookie...thats why I betcha...Wilson is going to pass BE as a class WR cause he sat back, got humbled and learned. Where BE will be making the same mistakes 2-3 years from now. I understand where RAC is at and admire him.

If he was thinking of his job only...I think he would rush the rookies. You got to admire a man who would sacrifice how people would percieve his job is going by trying to teach almost all these rookies the RIGHT WAY. Rather than rushing them and sucking the results of their natural talent but sacrificing their future gains.

We will benefit from this and the only rookie...probably cause we were starving for talent...BE was not humbled as much as RAC would have liked. Hopefully it won't ruin that investment. But watch how good this kid Wilson becomes compared to BE <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />
JMHO

One poster once said it so the rest of us spread it around as fact... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously though, Eotab had a good take on it... Just have a feeling that it may be one of the things that may cost RAC his job and as Tab mentioned, Talent will always shine through.. I can see the argument from both sides, just cannot say that I would go the same route as RAC if I were the HC..

[color:"orange"] Eo - Let me start by saying I am neither a Sowells pimp nor a Sowells detractor. I honestly don't know what to make of him yet.

I will accept you explanation on why Sowells hasnot had time at OG. I will go as far as extrapolating that argument to RT when Tucker went out. But now that Butler is out how can he not beat out Dorsey? I'll even give you last game. But now that everyone has seen Dorsey on the field in real game situations it is abundantly clear that he doesn't belong in an NFL uniform. If Dorsey starts at RT against Houston and Sowells sits than something is really wrong with Sowells. [/color]

You say Shaffer can play guard,I say he can't.
You think Sowells will be ready next year,I don't think so.
Therein lies the difference.I'd love to expand on that,but right now I have things blowing out my arse.

I have been through this a few times already, but I don't buy this BS that RAC won't play rookies. I really believe that was some lame defense for some of Savage's sucky picks.

My proof:

---Leon did start as a rookie. He didn't start right away, but he came into camp late, missed more time because of a funeral, and missed more camp time w/nagging injuries. I think it is surprising that he started as early as he did.

---Charlie Frye started as a rookie. If a coach will start a rookie QB, he will start anyone. It's the most complicated position and takes the longest to master.

---Wimbley has started all year.

---DQ has started as a rookie.

---Leon Williams is getting playing time.

So.......I ain't buying this [censored] that RAC won't play rookies. That's why it bugs me when people make [censored] up to defend the Browns...in this case--Savage, because ultimately someone else gets knocked for it....in this case---RAC.

For the record, Sowells is light years away from playing. He ain't getting it. Now, you can believe me based on my past record...or you can believe others who blow smoke up your ass. <img src="/images/graemlins/azzangel.gif" alt="" />

Based on what you said and what Ive seen I tend to have to agree with you.
RAC will play rookies if he feels they are
A) Ready
B) or the is a need or no other choice

That being said I do tend to think he holds them back a bit more then I would like. However if he feels they are not going to help the team win then who am I to 2nd guess it. Hes the coach and its his job hes trying to keep/protect.
However I also dont believe that if they dont start their rookie year they are a wash or light years away. Perhaps they just need more time to learn via practice, film study etc. Then after all that if in a 2/3 year span they are still not playing then they are toast and send them packing.

j/k

No, I don't want to lose out. I don't care who it costs us. As long as the Browns go out and attempt to win I will root for a victory.

Verse, Leon is ONLY getting PT due to injuries to our starters... He has come in and looked leaps and bounds above Andra Davis these past few games... Granted he is a rookie with some rookie mistakes but I would much rather see RAC play these guys and let them learn through the game...

As far as yoru past record, You have been right FAR more than you have been wrong and I will readily give you credit for that... I just think that in this particular case, the truth lies somewhere in between your pessimism and Eo's eternal optimism...

Savage isn't going to nail EVERY single Pick Verse, NO GM does... And RAC has his issues as well but some of you guys neglect to address them...

I do not want to see the GM or the HC fired... I really really don't, I just want to see the coaches and GM for that matter improve in their jobs... IMHO, RAC is that one that has left us out to dry in that dept. and I hope he figures it out SOON!