DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum JG - Chapter 8

Garapollo draft profile:


STRENGTHS

Has a very quick trigger and good wrist snap that translates to a smooth throwing motion and clean, compact delivery (no windup). Lightning release quickness. Urgent decision maker. Sells play-action. Athletic enough to slide in the pocket and buy time with his feet while keeping his eyes downfield. Good anticipation -- throws his receivers open. Can change ball speeds and drop it in a bucket. Does not take unnecessary sacks and will dump the ball. Will deliver the ball looking down the barrel of a gun. Tough-minded and poised in the pocket -- can withstand a hit and pop back up. Highly competitive. Smart, respected, vocal team leader. Very durable, experienced, four-year starter. Good football intelligence.


WEAKNESSES

Is a tad undersized with small hands and short arms. Uses a three-quarters delivery that could lead to batted balls. Works heavily out of the shotgun in a spread offense, and footwork could require adjustment to working from under center. Does not always feel pressure in the pocket. Does not rip the deep out or drive the ball with high RPMs. Undershoots and often hangs the deep ball. Makes receivers work for the ball downfield, and deep accuracy could stand to improve. Makes a lot of simple, one-look reads and was not heavily challenged by consistent pressure or complex looks in the Ohio Valley Conference.

Some of the assessments go against what you see on him, namely:
Arm strength
Accuracy
Throws with great anticipation- still have to figure out what does that mean, since anticipation throws depends on the WR running precise routes

From the Arizona game and the part of the Game against Miami, I didn’t see anything spectacular… specially considering what Brady can do with that O…


I like Garapollo quick release, regarding the rest of the atributes I think there are better prospects on this draft, that's why they are considered 1st round prospects and Garapollo not, unless 1 and 1/4 game can change the opinion for you.

Hoyer is a much more proven QB than JG, with roughly the same attributes, who did well for us, yet most of the people wouldn't want him here....

LOL...........I keep trying, but I can't figure out how to reply to your post.

Have a good one.

Let's just roll with that logic. So we should use the #1 pick, or trade up from #12, to draft the next T.J. Yates.

OK, lets try with a simple one...

I get it that sitting behind TB is a great asset for JG, will not dispute that.

But, the inability to talk to JG before the trade is a MAJOR negative (just see what happened to Osweiler and the Texans).

We cannot assess him, we cannot sell him the project, we cannot see if he fits our mentality. We cannot be sure how JG would feel from being demoted from a potential SB contender in a few years to the face of the worst Franchise in the NFL.

Another major negative is the Capital JG has... If he tanks for 3-4 games, everybody will be talking Brock the II, how dumb the Browns are, etc. Even with Hue protection, the media and the Fans would not give him a chance, especially if BB drafts a QB with our pick, and if he trades JG I'm sure he will be drafting one high.

You can't let the fans and media alter your approach.

Most of the QB job security is about perception.... In Cleveland specially..

I think that after Frye, we had a string of good/serviceable QB's in here, much better than our WR‘s and all were labeled backup material after only a few games.
Even QB’s that built the capital through their performance (Anderson and Hoyer) were burned fast, although IMHO, none of them were really the problem with the team.

JG will not be the answer to this team, and he doesn’t have the time. Unless we trade the 2n rounder for him, and draft a WR or TE with the 12th, then I’m all for it.

Garret, Mike Williams and JG, that I'm confortable with... :-)

If you can get him for our second 2nd rounder this year and next years second 2nd rounder and with a guarantee he will sign long term go for it.

If you could get him for that "price", I believe the majority would go for it.

Yes even I would be ok with that ... The thing I don't want to see is us giving our #12 for him ...

His talents and skills in those areas exceed those of any QB coming out for the draft this year AND any QB that has ever backed up Brady in his entire career.

The only true debate is what is the "right" price.

It would be a significant price to pay, but our #12 and a lower second round pick either this year or next, is the maximum that I would pay...

No way NE would go for that ... they can get that much for him after next year ...

That trade is not based in reality ... but i guess when u consider the source ... its to be expected ...

There's a reality based post ....

As long as the rat jr. or chicago don't want him enough to offer a top 3 pick for him that should be a good starting point .... i don't see BB trading JG to the jets or the Jill's .... not unless he thinks JG isn't very good and in that case ... hes prolly not worth our 3rd .. *L* ...

And a lot of the same people who think like you condemned the Browns for over bidding the Redskins for RGIII.

You do realize that Matt Flynn was a seventh round pick, right?

When I refer to matt Flynn, I'm talking about how he had one good game, and everybody jumped on his sack saying how great the guy was gonna be.

As matter of fact, people were saying the same stuff as Jimmy g: he sat behind A great QB so he's gonna know his stuff, great arm, skill set, blah blah blah.

Dude got paid to be the anointed savior of the team.......and that's it.

Hell, at least matt casell had an 11-5 season under his belt. Jimmy g has all of two games starting experience, and couldn't even stay healthy.

the track record of backup QB's going to a different team, starting, and leading that franchise to deep playoff runs is horrible. Hell, it's almost non existent.

The only one I can think of that did it these last 5-10 years is matt schuab(sp). Backup from the falcons, when to the Texans as a starter and got to the divisional round, right? He had some solid years, then just fell apart.

I'm sure there are others, but it's so rare I can't think of any. Maybe Brock? Is he even good, though? No.

So I rather draft a guy.

Tom Brady was a 6th round pick right?

And that's fine.

But the skill set and where they were drafted is a huge factor in people feeling the way they do.

Vers pointed out the huge difference but nobody was willing to address his points. He pointed out all of JG's skills in a list. Everyone is attacking the idea of paying the price to acquire him, but nobody will actually address how you can dismiss all of the skills JG has.

People try to mention his injury, yet many of those very same people seem thrilled by our FO re-signing Bitonio who hasn't been able to stay on the field for the past two seasons.

It seems the QB most people advocate drafting has only had 13 starts when many of those same people admit that many QB's have looked good their first year, only to tank their second year. None of this makes any sense to me.

I know you are more of a fan of drafting Watson. As much as it will pain many, to me there's almost no doubt he will be the first QB drafted this year. While he has a question mark in regards to INT's, nobody can say that the kid isn't clutch under pressure. Well, the NFL is all about pressure.

Yeah. You want to look back and give me the odds of that working out? I didn't think so. I guess it's a lot better pointing out the exception to the rule rather than the rule itself.

if u want ... I'll bet u a cold one that Mitch is off the board first ...

His skill set is much better for the nfl than Watsons ...

Dak Prescott 4th, Marc Bulger 6th, Mark Brunell 5th, Rich Gannon 4th, Brad Johnson 9th, Matt Hasselbeck 6th, Mark Rypien 6th, Joe Theismann 4th, Bart Starr 17th and Roger Staubach 10th.

That's because we've seen QB's with "the list" all the time coming out of college.

I wonder how many QB's on our team alone was being pimped with having most- if not all- of those skill sets? I remember accuracy and quick release and all those other things posters were saying on the old board with Brady Quinn.

Yikes.

Now, I'm not saying that shouldn't be a factor, because of course it should. But right now we aren't talking about drafting Jimmy g. We are talking about trading for him, as a soon to be 4 year backup QB with 2 career starts and an injury.

That's the difference some posters have a hard time acknowledging when it comes to these debates.

Personally, im not a big fan of small school QB's. I still can't remember what division JG played in. But if he was in this years draft class, then I certainly understand why he would be considered a first rounder. But I still would go Watson over him.

But he's not in this years draft class. So when I see posters talk about "if" he was, he'd be the best prospect....based on what? That's an extreme hypothetical projection. So many factors into play.

And since posters play the "if" game, for all we know, "if" Jimmy g played in college this year, he could be absolute trash. And we'd be talking about him like we do Kizer.

And at the end of the day, it's about value for me. I don't care about his college tape because he's now 4 years removed from it. I'm not gonna compare a 4 year backup to any of these QB's coming out of the league when it comes to value.

Because Jimmy g is simply a second round backup who hasn't played to his draft status in 3 seasons. Not his fault he's backing up Brady, but he isn't even worth a 2nd round pick just based on production.

I feel you on the bitonio signing. All I can say is that as an indivual, I've been on record stating how I don't understand how people trash Erving, but say nothing but good things about bitonio who can't even stay on the field. But I'm definitely have a minority opinion about that so I'll leave it there.

So yea I rather have Watson over Jimmy G. Hell, I rather have Trubisky. I look around the league, and the teams with the best success always seem to be the teams that draft their own guy. And the stats back up my claim.

I hope he comes off the board at 12

I wouldn't take a QB until 52 ( pick 20 Second Round ) at the earliest.

I was keeping it simple. I asked you to address his skill set. You quoted one scouting report w/out a link [although I did read that one along w/many others] and said some weird stuff about arm strength and not knowing what anticipation is.

Dude, address his skill set.

If you can't.............who the hell are you to make fun of others for wanting the Browns to trade for him?

I never pimped Matt Flynn. Not once. I hated his arm strength. Reminds of Cody.

Swish, since you have watched the game tapes over and over and over, why don't you give us your analysis of Jimmy G's skill set? You know, the criteria I listed.

In fact, not one person has addressed those issues and instead we keep getting BS like him being a backup, Matt Flynn comparisons, Scott Mitchell comparisons, Cassell comparisons, etc.

Go ahead, guys............compare the skill sets of all those qbs. I dare you!!!!

You can't, because they aren't even close. So instead, you resort to BS!

I don't think there is anything wrong w/not being able to break down a qbs skill set, but for crying out loud, stop telling the rest of us what to think in whether or not we should trade for him. Your argument is like a man speaking w/a paper butt hole.

Have a nice day!

Why do you keep asking me to break down a criteria I'm not even arguing?

I'm arguing value and production as it relates to his 3 going on 4 NFL seasons. You keep resorting back to his college tape.

I can post plenty of QB's with awesome college highlights. I can post a ton of QB's who have supposedly the skill sets needed to succeed in the NFL.

That's fine if you're talking about drafting a QB. For the 3rd time, Jimmy g isn't getting drafted. The argument has and will always be his value of trade.

So I don't know why you call it BS. You project what a college QB will do in the pros. Jimmy g is already a NFL QB, and since the topic is what is his value of trade, then as such I base my critique of Jimmy g on production.

You keep preaching skill set like a freaking parrot, but I remember you distinctly stating last year that skill sets in college doesn't necessarily translate to the pros.

Yet somehow you're stating all this as if it's a fact that Jimmy g has the skill sets required to lead a franchise?

Again, based on what? Certainly not NFL production.

Nobody is telling you and others what to think. What I'm jauggesting is you get off your knees for a second and ask yourself a simple question.

Has Jimmy g - who was drafted in the 2nd round, been a backup going on 4 years, and has all of 2 starts and an injury - done remotely anything to warrant giving up #12 pick?

The answer is easy: no.

So, skill set no longer matters after you leave college.

Smoke another bowl, Swish.

vambo, you seem to be sending a mixed message. you do not want to trade for jg unless he signs a long term deal. that seems to suggest you view him as a long term answer to our qb issues. that he is a viable franchise qb. yet despite that you want to offer 2 second round picks. if you are right that he is a franchise qb he would merit a first round pick. if he is not he does not merit a long term deal.

If that's all you're gonna harp on than I dunno why I bother.

If you want to go all in and give up #12 for sloppy seconds of a backup QB from another team then go right ahead.

Hopefully the FO shows more common sense. History shows that backups going to another team to start does not work.

Stop talking crap. You are making yourself look dumb.

Let me ask you if these things are important in the NFL?

--Reading defenses?

--Reading coverages?

--Being able to go through your progressions quickly?

--Accuracy?

--Arm strength?

--Mobility?

--Pocket Presence?

--Delivering the throw even though you know you're gonna get hit?

--Anticipation?

Are you saying those things are not important?

If not, please evaluate how JG fares in those categories in the tapes that you have watched over and over and over. Please?

If you can't.............then shut the hell up!

Actually, I am waiting for one person to go through those lists and critique some areas. Maybe Diam will. He has stones. I found a flaw or two........so, it will be interesting to see what others say if they are honest and can actually evaluate skill set. Hell, Grimm might do it......but, he purposely try to disagree w/me. Pred and bonefish can do it, but they already believe. Be interested to hear ed's take. He's always talking about that, but I don't think he likes Jimmy G. Would love to hear his analysis. Of course, guys like cfrs know everything.......so he should be able to break it down.

It sure is a hell of a lot more interesting and important than the BS that others are putting out there that he sucks because he is a backup, he was drafted in the second round, he plays for NE, etc.

I'm still waiting.........

I just saw that Vambo liked Swish's post.

So Vambo..........you are against trading for Jimmy G or not?

Because I wanna make it clear before the trade either happens or doesn't, so you don't do your usual flip flopping like a carp at the bottom of the river.

How do you know he can do any of this based on TWO WHOLE GAMES?

That's why I brought up the matt Flynn comparison. People out here anointing a QB the savior based off a whole SIX QUARTERS of football.

You're the one looking stupid.

I swear, only browns fans can make a claim that a backup drafted in the 2nd round is worth #12 overall with essentially ZERO production in the NFL after 3 seasons.

And yet I'm the one looking dumb? Some of you guys will never learn. Stop trying to take sloppy second QB's from other teams and thinking they're gonna somehow save this franchise.

Houston hated that decision so much they essentially paid the browns to take Brock off their hands.

Seattle paid matt Flynn only for his ass to get beat out by a third round rookie.

How many teams has Ryan Pickspatrick been on?

I mean damn how many times has that crap FAILED right here in cleveland?


Dilfer
RG3
Who else?

Don't get mad cause I'm trying to keep you and others from drinking the kooliad.

I am not making a claim.

I am asking YOU---and the other naysayers--to evaluate the tape and tell us what you see.

It's simple. I gave you a ton of criteria that is relevant to evaluating qbs. Copy and paste them and go through it one by one.

Not asking you to agree w/me. In fact, I didn't even really give my interpretations of each. I am asking you naysayers to evaluate his skill set just once instead of comparing his "circumstances" to other quarterbacks.

Are you man enough to do that, Swish?

I don't know how many different ways I have to say the same damn thing to you.

My argument against Jimmy g is based off his production and trade value.

I've been on record saying that even though I don't think he's worth a 2nd, if that's what we gave up, or maybe a 2nd this year and next then fine, I'm all aboard.

I've stated that before and you completely ignored that. Because you're reading what you want to read.

But he hasn't done a DAMN thing to warrant a #12 overall pick. I've done my little evaluation on jimmy g from college a whole 3-4 years ago.

He looked awesome...against trash competition in a trash conference.

And man enough? This is pure football, not man vs Wild on the discovery channel.

You have your reason to swing off Jimmy G's sack. I have my reasons not to drink the koolaid.

Yeah, I got that a long, long time ago. That's all you freaking say! We got it!

How about trying something new?

Evaluate his skill set. Please? You said you watched all three videos over and over and over, so it should be no problem.

Let's make it easy...........here is the video that shows EVERY throw he made in a game. It is NOT a highlight video.

You and the other naysayers.............please break it down for us? Thanks.


http://www.patriots.com/video/2016/09/18/jimmy-garoppolo-highlights-every-throw-week-2