DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Options at QB

I think Kessler played OK last season, and think he will be better this season.

How much better is the only real question.

I agree with all of it. Great summary post. Still hope for JG. Him and a developmental is possible. Look hard to next year; everybody is a bridge at this point in my book.

I'm intrigued by the guy and interested in how he may improve. He did some good things throughout the year and showed some limitations. I imagine he got very limited reps in TC...and played with Cam Erving in front of him and/or Alvin Bailey to his right...with a converted QB as his #1 target...in a new offense. What could go wrong with that?

He should compete to start at QB...and the Browns should look to upgrade the position.

The things I didn't like about Cody was his very slow processing speed. Far too many times he had hte deer lost in the headlights pose. It can also be chucked up to a rookie getting used to the gamespeed of the NFL. Some break out of it and some don't. I do know I got tired of all the dink and dunk passes thats for sure.

If he can take that one series against NE right before he got hurt. And become that more often then not, then yeah, he'd be ok.

I disagree with this assessment a lot - I was impressed with his moxy and how he handled the game when thrown in at such short notice. Sure after two concussions I think he looked a little flustered .... I think most QB's might have at that point. Let alone the 3rd round QB.

I like how you use logic and reason to explain your position. We just disagree on some fundamental things. Here is one:



Hue did a great job of playcalling and masking Cody's weaknesses. We were 4th in the entire league in rushing and Cody was making some nice passes. Things were looking pretty good.

As a former player, coach, and scout.......I noticed some things that bothered me and I brought them up on the board. One poster in particular replied w/stuff like "BS," and "you have an agenda."

My take was that if teams took away the run game and dared Cody to beat them w/the tougher throws, that the Brown's offense would really struggle.

In come New England. They did exactly that. Other teams copied what NE did and we were toast. The running game disappeared. We couldn't make teams pay w/deeper throws, deep outs, and the high end of the intermediate throws between the hashes.

We would typically have one or two good drives per game where Cody dinked and dunked the team down the field. Problem is, you can't win w/that type of offense. Eventually, you are going to get holding calls, illegal procedures, dropped passes, sacks, etc. It's simply too hard if you can't run the ball and challenge a team vertically.

Hue HAD TO resort to calling for deeper routes on the tree. It was mandatory. Cody either couldn't or wouldn't make those throws [I think it was a combination of both] and we got our butts handed to us. Our offense regressed as time went on and didn't improve again until RGIII came back.

I get why people say: "Cody is young and will get better." That is a true statement. I get why people might say "tailor the offense to Cody's strengths." Of course, you wanna do that.

I think it is fairly obvious not too many people are getting what I'm saying............if a qb is unable to make all the throws, teams can game plan and take away what he does best because he doesn't possess the full repertoire of what is needed. I also think that while a qb can get better in certain areas, arm strength is what it is at this level.

I think that if Cody starts this season, it will retard the development of other players and the team as a whole. I think there will be a lot of blame passed around and it will not be good for the team.

These are my opinions and I am not asking any of you to agree. However, I am not changing my mind on those things until Cody proves to me that he is a complete qb who can make all the throws.

Cody did hold the ball way too long and he took needless sacks. He also checked down way too early on many occasions.

I think he didn't either

A. Trust what he saw

or

B. Trust his ability to make the throw.

I actually think it was both.

I do think he is a pretty smart guy and he can improve A, but I don't think he can improve B.

When the first/most positive trait people seem to list about someone is "moxy", that usually means they aren't very good.

Cody was a 3rd round rookie who had what ... a 5th, 6th round grade ... he played like a 3rd round rookie that should have been drafted in rnd 5 or 6 ...

Cody was a rookie and is not the noodle armed FINISHED PRODUCT Vers wants to make him out to be ... is he the answer? ... HELL NO ... but he will play much better this year ... witch is very easily done as the bar may be set underneath the floor after last years play ... *L* ...

Vers is right about one thing ... Hue did a GREAT JOB masking his weaknesses ... once the D's figured it out ... not much u could do with the 3rd round rookie with a limited skill set that had no right taking a snap last year much less becoming the startier ... in what was it ... in week 3 or 4 ... ya .. THATS PLENTY OF TIME FOR HIM TO GET READY ....

What Vers or a few of U want to ignore is that Hue also THREW HIM UNDER THE BUS and mentally handled him like Hue does end of half and end of game situations ... that would be to handle it as HORRIBLY AS U CAN ... it was like he said ... "hmmmmm, whats the STUPIDEST thing I can do" .. i think I'll verbally shame my 3rd rnd. Rookie QB in the press ... forget the FACT these were WEAKNESSES WE KNEW HE HAD WHEN HE DRAFTED HIM and he was no where's ready to play in the press ...

U got a rookie QB obviously struggling with his confidence ... he was obviously hesititent to pull the trigger and TRUST WHAT HE WAS SEEING ... thats not when u PILE ON .. its not the time for calling out the ROOKIE qb who should have been no where near the field out in the press ....

BRILLIANT HUE BRILLIANT!!!!

With a year under his belt .. Cody should be much better at it this year .. the game SHOULD HAVE slowed down for him ... this will help immensly with his confidence in what he's seeing and that should and HAS TO lead to much quicker decisions and him getting rid of the ball quicker and him for lack of a better term "throwing recievers open" witch he has to be able to do to be a GOOD BACK UP ...

As an ex player, coach and scout I'm sure Vers also knows when your THINKING instead of playing by "instinct" and just playing ... Vers knows THINKING is death to any player much less a QB .. SLOWS U DOWN ... ad a lack of confidence to the mix and your SCREWED!!!

Crap ... we drafted dude in rnd 3 and almost ALL OF U HAD A STROKE cause u thought we drafted him to soon ... then because of injuries he's forced to play and now Vers and a few others are crapping all over the kid for FAILING in a situation where he WAS SET UP TO FAIL!!!

in all honesty, Cody was better than I ever anticipated (and he still wasn't good) ... but he'll never be a good QB. He doesn't have the arm strength to do it. He's an average backup QB IMO

I am used to other people putting words into my mouth, but I'm surprised you are.

I think he can--and should--improve in certain areas.

Was that clear enough?

I just think that the ceiling is low because he doesn't make all the necessary throws that are needed.

I've been watching football long enough to know what a weak-armed QB looks like and how that affects an offence.
CK has a weak NFL arm. Period.

Let me put it a different way....

I'm not necessarily sure there's someone out there to be had that could be our franchise quarterback. I think any drafted quarterback will need time to develop. And I don't believe in the Garoppolo route as many others do.

I think Kessler has enough zip on his short and intermediate passes, or at least it appears that way because he has incredible accuracy. One thing he does extremely well is place the ball where it needs to be. He always seems to lead his receivers although Pryor sometimes ran backwards or lateral. He does struggle throwing downfield. His deep passes end up short most times and the receiver has to retreat. I saw numerous times Pryor or Coleman had to outplay opponents for the ball.

I think for these reasons he is our leading option at QB right now. Brock seems quite a bit more inaccurate and doesn't lead his receivers as much as Kessler. Hue preaches accuracy. And I think you can live with Kessler's arm until we groom a QB to be the guy. I'd rather draft players than take chances on a qb, although we do have plenty of picks in the first couple rounds next two years to try one.

I guess I can see where Kessler could retard the development of a young team. Whether or not he can improve his deep throws remain to be seen. But I think he does an exceptional job with ball placement, I think when he gets better teams will have to drop more DBs into zone to prevent some YAC from our receivers, enabling us to run the ball like we did early in the season.

One thing I think Kessler could improve is stepping up in the pocket. He seems to stay back or rollout when in trouble when there's a perfectly good pocket to step up into. I think this will also help him throw deep. Everyone ragged on how bad the Oline was, but I think the inexperience of all the QBs made the Oline look terrible (Erving was) and that led people to think the OL was the biggest issue. It wasn't.

Hopefully the game "slows down" for him, and I think one season in Hue's offense will be tremendous for Kessler, or at least I hope. If Kessler starts game 1, then it probably means we didn't draft a QB in the first round, which is fine by me.

He has to develop really good anticipation to overcome it. And even then it's still a big limitation.

Based on what I saw this past season, I don't know if he can.

How do you judge if a player has adequate arm strength?

Not questioning your assessment of Kessler but more interested in how to apply that to the Qb's in this draft. Particularly DeShaun Watson. Watson is my #1 rated Qb with the caveat: If he has adequate arm strength. I don't know how to make the determination of a college kid to know if they will have enough arm strength in the NFL.

I can see Kessler play against NFL teams and see that his arm strength is borderline adequate. But how do you make that determination based off play in college? And not just for Watson. Does Trubisky have enough arm strength? It looks like he has to muscle the ball for added velocity at times and he frequently floats the ball especially on some of the longer tosses.

And this is precisely my worry with the QBs in this year's draft. They will go earlier than they should simply because of the QB need and status in the league and there isn't outstanding talent on this board. Goff at 1 last year proved to be an overreach or, he was with the wrong coach. Would he have fared better if Hue took him? Maybe but probably still not worthy of the #1. Bortles proved to be an overreach. Trubisky at 12 is an overreach. Mahomes in the 1st is an overreach. How will they play? Who knows but, there is certainly a higher risk of them playing like a 1st round rookie that probably should have been drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round.

After watching Kessler at face value I can buy this argument. At the same time, I can very much see Kessler becoming Brian Hoyer or Brian Sipe. Kessler had no business starting last year and rightly so being drafted in the third round. For his game to work, he needs development.

In my opinion, and, no, I am not saying you are stating this to be true or false, Kessler can play a starting role until...let me repeat...until...a legit QB is found. I have said this a few times. If these top QBs cannot become a starter in the first year, why do people think Cleveland needs to draft one in the first round?

I need a minute on my soapbox!

I think people keep seeking the holy grail. Every draft Browns must get a first round QB. It baffles me the level of quality people suggest Cleveland should obtain. All it does is make the shirt with the 25+ QB names grow bigger. Will Cleveland make mistakes passing on talent such as Wentz? Maybe even probable. Wentz will prove Cleveland goofed playing well his second season. But, come on, Wentz was a huge risk. If this coaching staff is not 100% behind the pick, they must walk away and wait.

Yes, this offense will be limited playing with Kessler. But, if this offense cannot score TDs and win games with Kessler, how in the heck do they win games putting a rookie QB in charge.

I would argue Brock Osweiler is capable, but I did not watch Brock play much. Something happened in Houston last year was it Osweiler or O'Brien. I am not a O'Brien fan. My opinion would be a little bias.

I now step down off my soapbox!

Bugs I agree with much of your post. Any of the QB's in this draft may be good but the odd's are, according to the experts, they probably won't. My contention is we should not draft a QB high this year just to draft one. If there were some talented one's yes by all means but again it doesn't look that way. This is considered a deep draft with a lot of talent at positions where we need talent so draft that talent. It seems to me and it's JMO, that if we drafted one of the QB's from Miami, Cal, or Tennesse they may be about as good as the top 3 rated guys. None of them really stick out. Do something we haven'yt done in the past and draft the BPA.

I will say this about Kessler, after watching his preseason action... I was almost ready to write him off right then and there. Wow, horrible. Remember that running outta bounds play? Bad throws? Looked confused, scared and about clueless and so-on.

You'd think he would've got killed in regular season action, but he proved me wrong. Am I saying he pro-bowl balled out? No, absolutely not. But I am saying he improved big time.

Especially when you factor in teams are running their base packages, not really scheming or game planning - so QBs usually look better in preseason (aka Weeden lol) and then regular season would come by and... yikes.

All JMO

That is perfectly clear ... thank U for doing that ...

U spend 95% of your time bashing him ... based off most off your posts I think its fair to conclude you think he's a NODDLE ARM without a ton of room for improvement ....

I agree he has a low cieling .... would never argue that .... IMO he can be a decent back up and do a nice job for a 3 or 4 game stretch .... i think he can be an above average back up for a long time ..... but i agree he does not have a strong enough arm to be a decent starter ..... ... much in the mold of a Brian Hoyer .... u can't tell me Hoyer has a stronger arm .. ...

The way u talk about him most of the time ... i got the feeling u think he has zero value ... guess i was taking u the wrong way ...

My mistake .. thanks for claryifing ...

Go puck yourself ....

Wrong sport. That's hockey, not football.

U can go join lampie ....

jester, i am sure there is an explanation, but i cannot understand why velocity is not indicative of arm strength. somewhere on here a number of quarterbacks had their velocities listed. if i remember right Cody was 55 mph, Watson was 49. there were others listed but it seems like Cody was middle of the pack. not sure why a weak armed qb can throw it at a velocity comparable to others not considered so weak armed.

Lol! Just saying man. I see pretty much what versatile dawg sees. Now I agree CK could be a solid backup, never said he couldn't be. He seems to have good ball placement on his throws.
But his arm strength is below-average.

j/c

I'm not saying Kessler is the answer, but I don't see all that much difference between his arm strength and Bridgewater's. It makes Vers' vehemence against CK seem a little excessive to me considering his sentiments towards Teddy. Kessler does need to show more willingness to let it rip deep, I'll give him that. I think a lack of familiarity with the offense and inconsistency in their routes by our receivers contributed some to his hesitancy. I want to see how he looks with a year under his belt in the same system and after getting starter's reps through camp. None of the QBs in the draft look ready and the vet QBs on the market all have baggage.

Thanks again for mentioning my name in a negative way.

I don't hate Kessler. I think that he is a back-up qb who doesn't challenge the defenses and limits the offense. I argue the way I do because there are several people saying we should "roll with Kessler" next year.

Btw..........you haven't watched enough of Teddy. He can rip the throws. In fact, in the terrible conditions against Seattle in the playoff game, Teddy's throws were better than Wilson's.

Rolling with CK is viable if we have a D minded strategy, then I think its ok, either CK or BO to be the QB's.

While I think this is the easy path to field a competitive team, I thing its the longest one to build a winner, so I would usually go for building the O first.

Problem is that we cannot stand many more years like this, so I wouldn't mind us trying to be competitive and aiming at a playoff birth through a strong D, even if the O is limited.

From my memory (stats and facts be damned), I seem to remember early on feeling that Cody played Okay and was starting to improve which gave me encouragement. Then the concussions came. After that he regressed. He seemed to played scared.

Did he come back to soon from the concussions? Was he not healed physically? Mentally/emotionally? Is this a temporary issue or has it become permanent? Is this unrelated to the concussions and solely related to defensive coordinators learning what he likes to to do and what he prefers not to do? Is my subjective impression accurate or totally inaccurate? Can he improve? Probably. Will he? Unknown.

I don't have answers to these questions. These are just some thoughts I had that I felt like posting.

Edit: The stats and facts be damned comment is intended to mean that I did not look back at stats and do not know if my memories are completely accurate. It is not intended to mean that I looked at stats and chose to ignore them.

Here is what I saw. Cody played pretty good early on, but once NE figured him out and other teams started copying that formula, Cody-and the rest of the offense--struggled.

It typically doesn't take the NFL too long to figure out qbs who are limited.

We've seen this song and dance before but I believe some people have short memories.

How many times have our back up QB's came in since our return because fans saw them do well in spot duty for our starters? The fans got all excited from the snap shot of them starting for a few games.

Then, when they were named the starter and other teams got some film on them, suddenly our opponents made them look like warmed over puke.

That's what happened to Cody. I like the kid and all, but he is what he is.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating we draft a QB high in this draft because I don't see one worthy of the selection. Drafting the wrong guy high in this draft will lead to nothing but a few years of going nowhere and most likely a regime and coaching change and we will be right back to square one. It's counterproductive.

If we HAVE to draft a QB, I would wait until later and draft a kid like Davis Webb.

Are we talking 10-11 wins playoffs? What do you mean exactly by win now?

and what has Garoppolo done exactly that gives you the confidence to say he is the only QB to give us a chance to win?

You really should go back and re-watch that game. (I just did to check my memory.) NE didn't figure out anything about CK in that game. As a matter of fact, his second series (of three total) was very impressive all around and NE could do nothing to stop him on that TD drive (an answer to NE's TD)...against the eventual SB champs no less.

The first and third series were snuffed out by untouched defenders running up the gut...I'd call that figuring out Alvin Bailey...and CK was injured on the third series not to return.

That second series against NE is one of the reasons I am so intrigued to see what he's got with a little more experience and a RG that is more than just a stick of deodorant standing in front of him.

He might be better now, I would bet not many would dispute that.

But is there someone in the draft who could be better down the road... I think that's the real question.