DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued...

How did he refuse it if x days later, he tried to accept it?

I'm not sure where u disagree with me ... *L* ...

Only thing i don't agree with on your post is that it was PROBABLY the FO's fault on Mitch .. it was 100% on them ... *LOL* ..

I don't blame them for Mack, Benji or Gipson ... they didn't want to be here ... Mitch did ...

I agree on TP .. once he decided to take the 1 year GAMBLE on himself .. he'd of been a BAFOON to come back here .... and that is not this FO's fault ... well not yet anyhow .. *L* ..

Not sure .. let me think about it and I'll get back to U ...

*LOL* ...

If i ever have the pleasure of meeting u .. first few rounds are on me .. u have a great spirit and tude ... its the least i can do ...

Did he accept it the day it was offered or refuse it ?

He didn't accept it, but he didn't refuse it. He waited. Stop twisting words, it won't help. Your dictionary didn't help.

Advance warning...I get really talkative when I've had a few.

Splitting hairs there, CHS. Can we say he declined to sign the offer? Simply massaging words here so that everybody comes out a winner...

My bad, I was unclear.

The only part where I 'sorta' disagree is that I would've given Pryor that one year deal. Even if it was more than the Redskins offer, I would've given him that deal.

(I did say that I think Pryor chose to go to Washington to play with a better QB, but that's just me guessing)

Here's what I'm thinking from another perspective. Sashi said just a few weeks later that they aren't in any position to lose/let go of a WR like Gordon. To me, it makes more sense to "cave" to Pryor and overpay slightly on a 1-year deal than set yourself up to potentially put up with Gordon's shenanigans once again.


edit: Also, I only say 'probably' because we don't have 100% of the story, and a lot of info we do have is of the "he said she said" variety.

ref·use1 indicate that one is not willing to accept or grant (something offered

Not accepting is refusing you are the one twisting.

And if you say he had the right to REFUSE the offer to test the water why are the Browns not able to change their offer or go in a different direction?

But if Mitchell Schwartz not refused the offer they could not have pulled or changed it.

wait
wāt/Submit
verb
1.
stay where one is or delay action until a particular time or until something else happens.


we can play semantics all day. You're still wrong.

j/c:

All I recall is that Mitchell was allegedly offered the contract at the NFL combine when his agent was there. Whether he "refused", "waited", "maybe'd it", who knows. Bottom line is he didn't sign it and chose to hit FA. Pryor did that too. They both ended up getting less than what the Browns originally offered.

Yes we can while the Browns waited after Mitchell Schwartz refused their original offer they went in a different direction.

Nope you are wrong.

We really don't know the facts. I can easily say Schwartz used Sashi's offer to get better and sign elsewhere. When they found out Cleveland made an outstanding offer, they went back. Sashi realized he was an idiot making such an offer and pulled it back.

To me, Schwartz's agent was at fault not knowing his clients market value. Or, agent tried taking advantage of a rookie GM.

Unsure why Sashi must overpay every player in order to be seen credible. If he signed players everyone is ripping him, Browns have on their payroll a center and right tackle paid equal to a left tackle. Not only that both receive 2-3 million more than Joe Thomas. To be fair to Joe, Sashi renegotiates his contract too?

Sashi is in a tough situation staying true to fiscal responsibility and future cap while keeping talent for a team who hasn't had a winning season in 10 years.

Your more than likely right on this one Mr. Oooob cause your agreeing with me 100% on this baby .. *LOL* ...

Were a better football team with TP on it than w/o him .. no doubt ... IF he came back and gave us the opportunity to match the 1 year deal and we didn't ... then i would be BLAMING THE FO ...

U can find a report to back up whatever scenario u think happend .... IMO there's no way he came back here and gave us that chance ... this is not the worst place to be for a one year gamble on a reciever ... but it is in the bottom 5 if not 3 or 2 ... *LOL* ... so to me it would have made NO SENSE what so ever for him to come back and see if we wanted to match the 1 year offer ... hell ... even if we gave him 8 GAURANTEED and 10 with incentives vs the 6 and 8 he got ... he still would have been stupid to come here ... *LOL* ..

If i was his agent and he came to me and said "take this one year offer back to c-town and see if they'll match it" ... my response to him would have been ... "you'd be better off signing the 4 year deal with them than allowing them to match the 1 year deal from Wash" ....

Were pretty much spot on with each other here Mr. Ooooob ...

Wow, all this talk is a little crazy. The Browns are a business and as such you don't just give money away because I guy wants it! Let's be perfectly clear, Schwartz was offered a more than fair contract which he had every opportunity to sign. Instead, he wanted to test the market. When he found out his value was less than what the Browns had offered he came running back. Anyone on this board that can honestly think that Schwartz wanted to stay a Brown is a fool. The reason - the only reason he came back is because the Browns had the highest offer. This had absolutely nothing to do with loyalty or wanting to stay put - it was all about money and the FO called him on it. The same with Pryor, he had a multi year deal on the table for 8 million per and he thought he was of greater value. When he got no offers he eventually signed a 1-year deal for much less money for a "show me" season. The Browns have consistently been on the up and up on these contracts from what I've seen but these guys who over value themselves I'd just as soon not have on the team. No loyalty and even less commitment. Good ridden Schwartz - the only person you have to blame for your low pay is yourself. Nobody made that decision to look for better money but you and you failed. Heck, I would have pulled the offer too. He'd just have been a cancer in the locker room bitching about how the Browns underpaid him - BYE BYE!

This is just a theory on my part, but Schwartz's brother played for the Chiefs, and enjoyed his time there. I suspect that he told Mitchell that he had to check out playing for a winning team, in a great city, with the Chiefs.

I suspect that Mitchell went, checked it out, got an offer, and remained decided that he wanted to stay in Cleveland.

Then the FO ticked him off by playing games with their offer they had made him.

I don't think that Schwartz was looking to go to the highest bidder. I think that his brother influenced him to check out the Chiefs. I don't think he wanted to leave Cleveland. His fiancee was from Cleveland. They were planning their wedding. Then the Browns blew it.

Again, all just my theory.

You seem a bit confused.
You say the Browns are a business and shouldn't be throwing away money,which is true.On the other hand you don't recognize that every player is also a business and that he owes it to himself and his family to attempt to make the best deal possible.
MS exercised his collectively bargained right to seek offers from other teams.
I don't believe he even considered the Browns would throw a hissy fit and rescind the original offer.
But they did,now he's gone and maybe lessons were learned on both sides.

If he remained decided that he wanted to stay in Cleveland why didn't he sign the offer when he was first offered it?.

Why then did Schwartz ticked the FO off by playing games with his brother influence of greener pastures?

If his intent all along was to stay why did he play the WAIT and see game?

Why is it if the player refuses an offer for testing the waters it's negotiations but if said waters don't pan out and the Browns re-negotiate it's a hissy fit?

I have to side with Vam. on this one. When he walked away to test the waters, he knew the offer was not going to stand. He was hoping that they wanted him back bad enough to dismiss the snub. He was wrong.

So here we are, discussing last years news, yet this remains a current thread?



LMAO


And the beat goes on, and the beat goes on.

Well, now that you bring that thought into it I guess I'm the guy (FO) who "moved on" from that car and ended up driving a couple of pieces-of-crap trying to make one get from point A to point B. LOL

Future Headline: The Browns make their third straight playoff appearance!

~ Mac - "Sure, but remember how they let Schwartz walk..."

smh

Just clicking.

If the Browns pulled the offer after Mitchell tested the market, then IMO they were petty and childish. He was a good RT for us, so that's cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Mack wanted to bolt, Benjamin got overpaid so I don't blame the FO for those.

U may now unpuck yourself ....

Shame on the FO for offering the best contracts those players turn down!

Lol, I'd forgotten that.

Yep. Not sure how everyone get's suckered into feeding the troll. This is a garbage thread and topic used for one reason/agenda. smh

I know it's in the past but apparently this is still relevant...

I don't believe the Browns pulled the offer. I think Schwartz left it on the table. There is a difference.

I imagine it played out more like this....

MS: So what is my offer?
FO: Blah blah blah, here is it...
MS: Okay. (walks away)

FO (looking at each other now): What just happened? We offered a guy who has never been invited to the pro bowl to be one of the highest paid RT's in the league and he walked away? Is he going to sign? Now what?

...(time passes)...

FO: Well we can't wait on this guy, he's obviously not interested in our offer, this might be more difficult then we originally thought, let's regroup and move on.

...(more time passes)...

MS: Hey guys, we're ready to sign that contract now.

FO (standing around looking at themselves again): Well, Mitchell, when you left the offer on the table we decided to move on. We'd love to have you back next season so here is what we can offer you....

MS: Is this some kind of joke? Where's the original offer? You guys hosed me, I'm going to tell my brother and he's going to post on the internet how lame you are...

And it's fine that you look at it that way. But the NFL set this up. They set up a period of time before the FA signing period opens for agents to check the market. The rules were changed to allow for just that.

The Browns attempted to punish Schwartz for exercising the option that the NFL put in place for FA players.

It's like saying, "Yeah, we gave you that option but if you use it, you're going to pay for it."

Sounds about right - Bye Bye Schwartz

Or, agent thought if Sashi is willing to pay 9 million. Lets shop better teams getting something close. When other teams were only willing to pay 6 or 7, he advises his client to go back to Cleveland. Meanwhile, Sashi realized he was an idiot giving way more than any other pulled back the offer.

So punishing players for following a rule change made by the NFL is just fine with you? From my understanding he had the option of signing the contract until the opening of the FA signing period and was here to do that. The Browns played hard ball and lost.

Oh, I forgot about that great RT they signed after that. Wait, what?

Pit, you always seem to "forget" the REASON they made the offer they did was so that (MS) would not go to FA.
He choose to test FA, so guess what? No Deal End Of Story. No Big Bad Guys Here.

You seem to be ignoring the point. He did NOT go on the FA market at all. That never happened. And nobody said there was a bad guy. The FO just made a mistake.

I believe they learned something from it. This year we signed the G from Cincy. Now he's a very good G, but not the best G in the league. Yet they signed him to an offer that made him the highest paid G in the league. Fans widely love that move while at the same time make excuses for the Schwartz move.

Had they used that same logic on the Schwartz deal, we would have a very good RT now. We' don't. So it seems they have learned something. But it appears you haven't. lol

I don't recall do you have something saying it is rule. I thought it was an implied agreement between agents and GM. Sashi's offer would have made Schwartz the highest paid RT and more than Joe Thomas. If anything, Sashi would have been more in a bind if Schwartz signed. More than likely he would renegotiate Thomas's contract. I hardly think Schwartz was punished. Why than did Schwartz go look for better? His agent used Sashi's offer to drive up the price elsewhere. It is not that hard to see.

look in the mirror

Free agency officials kicks off at 4 p.m. ET on Wednesday. But the courtship process can begin well before that under league rules.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000641702/article/what-is-the-legal-tampering-period



More than Joe Thomas? I don't think so.

If that's true, then they just signed Kevin Zeitler to more than Joe Thomas makes since they paid Kevin Zeitler more than the Scwartz contract was worth. That's my point, you don't have a problem paying Kevin Zeitler top G money in the league but makes excuses for not signing Schwartz?

You're not making any sense here.

Could it be because Zeitler accepted their offer where as Schwartz refused if origially? It seems the Browns have been on the high side of every offer made to any Free Agent.