DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Options at QB

Thanks for your reply.

How did you come up with the nine wins? So you think Britt and Coleman will see improved stats and TD's.

Has he played since his injury?

That would work for me 8 - 10 wins constant improvement.

The problem is.. if the reports are true.. to add JG we will not have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds... And that is the reason I'm against getting Garoppolo.

I could see it. Hope it happens and we don't screw up. Fingers crossed!

I didn't know where else to stick this, I just thought it was funny and it reminded me of a few QBs we've had:



https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/850364967819915265

J/c

I saw on NFLN Total Access a stat that said the Brockweiler was top 3 in RZ last year.

Looking at the full stats page, Colin Kaepernick was the worst in the league at throwing to the sticks. On third down the 49ers needed an average of 8.6 yards and Kaepernick threw the ball an average of 1.3 yards.

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/aerial-passing-distance--off-.html

I keep wondering if we are overlooking things here. I believe O'Brien misused BO. I simply had no proof or intelligence to say different.

Could the FO be putting up a front, poker face if you will, focusing attention away from their plans in the draft?

What rookie in this draft is an easier fix over BO? Does any have a much higher ceiling than BO?

I recently heard a question I thought was a good one. Since QBs are the most important position, has anyone thought about grading QB coaches? Did Houston/George Godsey fail BO last season?

Osweiler just had one of the worst QB seasons of all time. Maybe some of that is because he was misused. A lot of it is because he is a terrible QB.

I guess the question becomes who is easier to fix Brock, Kessler, or a rookie in this draft?

In my opinion, Browns draft a QB in the first round dump Brock and Kessler. Sign Fitzpatrick. Spend off season developing newbie to start this year. See how LA handled Goff. Otherwise, there is no confidence QB selected is anymore promising than either Brock or Kessler.

lol how is that even possible

Kessler, as a rookie that most people thought should be drafted in the very late rounds on a one win team, was much better than Osweiler. I would argue that there is nothing to fix with Osweiler. He is just bad. He signed with the Texans based on a small sample with the Broncos (where he was average) and he looks like a QB.

A team that needs a QB badly just traded a second round pick to not have Brock Osweiler on their team. That is all I need to know.



This seems very far fetched. If we wanted a mentor type of QB, we could have just kept McCown. Also, there is no reason to cut Kessler as he is very cheap and projects to be a pretty good backup QB.

Also, the way the Rams handled Goff the exact wrong way I would want to develop a rookie QB. They played Keenum until their (Fisher) seats were so hot that they (Fisher) had to play Goff in order to save their (Fisher) jobs. So they threw Goff into a horrible situation and he took a beating and looked like a deer in headlights.

cfrs, I totally disagree. No one learns how to play QB carrying a clipboard. Reps...Reps...Reps!

Drafting a player in the first round means you are committing. It makes no sense wasting time developing Kessler and/or Brock. Attention is focus getting your future on the field. Fitzpatrick doesn't need much time.

I'm not wanting Fitzpatrick to mentor. He is a stop gap until the rookie gets onto the field. I wasn't a fan dropping McCown. It is why I think Cleveland does not draft a QB in the first round.

Your first round picks are designated starters. Otherwise, why draft him. Last draft people graded Sashi on how many pro-bowlers. When you are 1-15, you don't draft first round players to ride pine.

These TV/web football analyst make no sense. FO don't have time developing players. It is win games today or be fired. Taking a development project bypassing starting talent or maybe pro-bowler is puzzling. GM's who do this only help their replacement.

I want to add another point. I don't think Fisher agreed with the decision trading/drafting Goff. Snead is idiot. His first four years he had two first rounders each year. He has yet staffed a team with a winning record. Rams fired Fisher keeping Snead. Yet, Cleveland is dysfunctional and inept.

I expect him to be better, with another year under the belt, and the improved OL. However, I do not expect him to be good. A better OL will not strengthen his arm.

Much like moving Cam Erving to center (not aimed at you, Pastor - just a general comment) did not fix his poor technique, and slow reaction.

No offense taken just hoping he can be the sturdy bridge we need until we get our QB whether this year or next ...

You might be right about Osweiler, but I doubt it.
He was pretty good in Denver. The Texans I think just mishandled him. If he can be pretty good in Denver, than he can be pretty good here. They just have to lay a plan out like they did in Denver. Work with the Man. Why do you think BB always has success? He takes what he's got and he works like crazy to make it work. Why can't we do that? I'm sure he's not the only one who is willing to work hard for his Team.

Reps are good if you are not getting killed. The situation you used as an example was Jared Goff.

What was he pretty good at in Denver? The best thing he did was not be bad in a situation where he was set up for success. Also, Osweiler's time in Denver was the small sample. Anyone can look good in a small sample (I've posted good stretches from horrible QBs on here before). (Let's also not forget that Osweiler was so good that he was benched in favor of a QB that threw 17 INTs in nine games.)

Once Osweiler got on the field for a long stretch he was awful. He refused to throw downfield (despite having Deandre Hopkins and Will Fuller on the team) and did not take care of the ball (17 INTs in 15 games). He also had the best defense in the league, which means he just had to be not terrible for the team to be good.

Contrast that with Cody Kessler. A third round rookie on a one win team. He also refused to throw the ball downfield, but averaged 1.3 more yards per attempt than Osweiler. Kessler, who refused to throw the ball down the field and was benched because of that, also averaged 0.36 more Air Yards per pass attempt than Osweiler (who refused to throw the ball down the field). If you don't throw the ball downfield you have protect the football. Kessler had an interception rate of 1%. Osweiler's was 3.1%.

If Brock Osweiler looked like Cody Kessler he would be irrelevant. Brock Osweiler looks like the prototypical QB, Cody Kessler does not.

(Disclaimer: Note I never said I think Kessler will be good or is good or I want him to be good. I have only said that he is better than Brock Osweiler, which is not hard to do.)

I think you are throwing him under the bus to soon.
I would like to see what we got

Cfrs, so what rookie shows better promise than Kessler or Osweiler?

I don't like the myth of "Kessler is afraid to throw it downfield". Look at our line protection last year. When did he have consistent time to let WRs GET downfield.

People act like he's dinking and dunking and has a noodle for an arm. Ridiculous. He might not have a rifle but he has more than enough to run intermediate routes and hit the deep shot if he can step into it.

Griffin...who's arm has never been in question...could complete crap downfield either because our QBs had zero time and frankly, once we lost Coleman, we had no deep ball threats apart from Pryor so teams could just play a safety over top on him.

+1

Jackson benched Kessler because he wouldn't downfield. But that isn't even my point. My point is that Kessler threw downfield more than Osweiler.

He threw himself under the bus by having one of the worst QB seasons in the history of the league.

Rookies meaning QBs in the 2017 draft?

Basically all of them?

Here are the stats from a post I made on August 21st, 2015 while arguing that Josh McCown is/was/would be bad:



https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...nued#Post987929

Sign 'em all and let each play a couple of games. We'd have a heckuva record...

Agreed. Kessler's arm strength isn't great, but it is okay. Much more important than arm strength is anticipation and accuracy. Those can be improved.

And with a full off-season in a real weight program, focused on getting stronger, I think he can show himself to be more durable and throw the ball a little harder.


But guys like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees didn't make their careers what they are because of arm strength, that's for sure. And all three increased their arm strength from the beginning to the peak of their careers.



I'm not calling Cody Kessler one of those guys either. Just, I think we're making a bigger deal about arm strength than is fair. He was a 3rd round rookie on a terrible team. He (and we as a team) need to get better at getting the ball downfield. But there's nothing to say he can't improve that.

I'm excited about Kessler. Does that mean that I wouldn't take Watson or Trubisky at 12 if none of my second tier guys are there? Absolutely not. But Kessler will get better.

And at the very least, he'll end up being a pretty decent backup IMO

and, yet, he was one of the best we've had here to date.

I'd say Josh is one of the top 5 QBs we've had since 99 ... BLAH

DA for one year
Couch for a brief period
Holcomb for a brief period
Hoyer for a brief period
McCown?

Don't forget that 2 1/2 game stretch where Jason Campbell was an elite QB.

I don't think it is a myth at all. I think it is a fact that should not be disputed, but we all have our opinions.

At this time Osweiler is the best QB on this roster. Kessler is no better than a 3rd string QB. When I watch him play I think of ex Miami Hurricane and Cleveland Browns QB Ken Dorsey. Good mind for the game but does not have the tools to be a good NFL QB.

I think there are only 3 real options to improve the QB spot this year.

#1 - Trade for Jimmy Garrapolo.

#2 - Draft Mitchell Trubisky.

#3 - Draft Nathan Peterman in the 2nd or 3rd round.

With any of these scenerio's I still think Osweiler makes the roster this year. The Browns still have to pay his salary. They could attempt to trade him at the trading deadline if a team gets desperate for a QB. Next season if he does not work out he can be cut with no salary impact.

In what way is Osweiler better than Kessler?

(Disclaimer: I don't think Kessler is/will be good.)

I will use the Skip Bayless/Tim Tebow analogy "He has a winning record."

Disclaimer: I do not like Skip Bayless, Tim Tebow or Osweiler, but Osweiler does have a winning record.

I know you are joking, but for some that is a legitimate argument.

Osweiler has a winning record not because he has played well, but because he started games for the 2015 Denver Broncos (best defense in the league) and the 2016 Houston Texans (best defense in the league).