DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus On Earth Day, climate talk

I'd like to address a few groups, mainly those 45+ years of age, the south, an apparently Nevada. Your time for denying anthropogenic climate change is coming to an end.

The fact that our president is unwilling to acknowledge our impact on planet earth, falls just short as a crime against humanity. I get it, politicians fall in line with tradition and preserving their wealth.

By no means do I claim to be the smartest person on this board, but I see a lot of ignorance on the board when it comes to this topic. I get it, your view of the world is highly subjective.

Our actions now have global repercussions, I'd just like to bring reality to the subset population I originally brought up. It's time we take acknowledge and take responsibility for our actions on planet Earth.


.

Da sky, it be a fallin!

Man did it!

Scientists got sucked in by all the Liberal money available over the last 8 years and said all the things they needed to say in order to get more of it. We have seen the documents and emails and the manipulation of data.

Now the rest of us don't know what to believe.

Climate change is undeniable.

I agree with 40 above. There's a lot of people who made a lot of money "studying" man's impact on the climate.

And the best way to get more money is to "get the right results".

You do realize there were glaciers covering most of what is the U.S. only ~ 20,000 years ago. Right?



Those glaciers all melted. No thanks to man. I think it's probably a cyclical thing.

Of course I only study paleoclimatology on the weekends.

You appreciate the truth of things Eve, so here is some truth for our liberal friends to digest...

The Founding Father of Earth Day, Ira Einhorn was on stage hosting the first Earth Day event at the Fairmount Park in Philadelphia on April 22, 1970. Seven years later, police raided his closet and found the "composted" body of his ex-girlfriend inside a trunk.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42711922/ns/te...d/#.WPvf6YjytPY

Way to get attention! Let's remember something, YOUR side of the argument is the side caught deleting data so bad that even Jon Stewart on The Daily Show couldn't put a good spin on it.

Ahh, the annual thread where people make excuses as to why we shouldn't take better care of our planet.

That has nothing to do with what anyone on here posted. We all care about our Planet, we just don't care for being lied to and have facts twisted like you just did.

Except nobody is lying.

Funny how an oil company had their own data back in the day, knew it was jacked up and covered it up cause their own science would've cut in their profits.

But keep defending your coporate overlords.

I'm sorry, I mean your ideology. They go hand and hand, after all.

Arch, my light work, please.

He can't save you.

No.

But they can:

Are you doing YOUR part?

No a/c, right?

Heat set to a temp of 60 or less.

You drive a solar powered car, right?

You don't use electricity unnecessarily, right? Like lights?

You ride your bike to work, or walk, right?

You don't fly anywhere, right?

You re-use paper towels and plastic water bottles, right?



I could go on and on. What are YOU doing?

And there are many on here that celebrate their fancy cars or trucks as well. "Performance", right?

And some that celebrate their hot tubs that they use energy to keep hot, every day, while getting used 2 times a week? 5 times a week? Once a month?

And forgotten in all of this is the simple, provable fact, that the earth has warmed and cooled since forever. Even with no humans doing anything.

Weird how that works.

Now my disclaimer before anyone gets all panty wadded: Yes, we should do what we can, no doubt, but that includes conservation in MANY areas. But, typically, people don't want to sacrifice THEIR comfort, just others, and they target the wealthy, generally.

Quit using energy. Just stop. Do YOUR part.

Climate change used to be called Global Warming. It is just a bunch of liberal trash used as propaganda to push their agenda of fear.

They are the elites and we need them and their wisdom to survive!!!

It is a lie and millions fall for it hook, line, and sinker. I am not a fish!

At Chez Clem, our 'house heat' is set to 61° all winter. I wear a polarfleece vest from Nov thru Mar. You wanna feel warm in January? -wear an extra layer of clothes.

We both drive ULEV cars.

In Summer, we only turn on the a/c after the ambient temp remains at 85 for more than 3 days... and that's only to take the humidity out of the indoor air. The house a/c is set at 70°.

My lawn mower, trimmer, hedge shears, etc. are all electric (yes, I know that much of America's electricity is still powered by coal, but I refuse to send unburned petrochemical hydrocarbons into the air to add to that pollution when I can help it-).

I walk to many of the close businesses I visit, and I 'store and bundle' local shopping trips into one or two weekly driving routes.

We re-use paper towels when we can. We don't buy bottled water (Britta filter jug, and insulated canteens/water bottles).

Last time I was on a plane: 2011.

I carpool my peeps to 'away gigs' when the quartet plays in joints like Sandusky, Norwalk, Bryan and Clyde (The CR-V can hold all 4 of us, plus our gear).

We grow our own organic produce. We then compost all the leavings, returning them back to the yard (haven't used a chemical fertilizer in almost 20 years, and our food tastes unbelievable). Our front lawn is zoysia, which is so dense and hearty, no weeds (read: dandelions, violets, crabgrass, etc) will grow. It needs no fertilization/watering to look good all Summer. Only downside: it turns brown and stays dormant until daily temps remain above 65, so our lawn is the last in the neighborhood to 'green up' each Spring.

We limit our garbage production as much as possible (1 bin [never more than half-full] every 2 weeks)

We recycle. Religiously. (Our recycle bin is easily 2X/3X the volume that we generate in trash, per week.)

Now granted, some of our choices (bundling local errands, home gardening, etc) are cost-cutters as much as they are 'green initiatives,' but it's never a bad thing to practice frugality and conservation anyway, am I right? In fact, the low-emissions/high mileage thing began for us way back in the late '70's, when we had to sit in 'gas lines.' We were just starting out together, were dirt poor, and couldn't afford to drive gas guzzlers like My Pops' Chevy Suburban. She bought a '76 Honda Accord hatchback, and I bought a '77 Triumph Spitfire 1500. We were averaging almost 30 MPG before the 1980's even hit. Both cars sipped gas like a man lost in the desert, did everything we needed them to do, and were more FPG ("fun per gallon") than almost anything else on the road at the time.

Those 'lifestyle choices' we made 40 years ago cast the dye that has forged who we are now, as we enter our 60's.

Arch: a lot of this that we do isn't part of some new-agey thing that we picked up after college. Our folks were survivors of The Great Depression, and frugality was a way of life for us even when we were kids. We both grew up with backyard ('victory') gardens, garage/basement workshops dedicated to repairing broken stuff, and and a household mindset that espoused 'max bang for the buck.'

Which is why we were pioneering the 'green movement' in our own personal way, long before it had a name or political platform. You see- living this way is simply an expression of 'basic common sense':

Don't spend more than you need to.
Don't buy more than you can use.
Don't use more than you need.
Don't take without giving something back.
Don't use without measuring the cost.

Tonight, we had a fabulous 'peasant's dinner' of lamb stew and home- made bread. We used all the stuff from our traditional Easter Sunday dinner, cleared a boatload of space from our fridge... and avoided throwing out uneaten food into the trash can ('food waste' is fast becoming the newest 'politicized' movement among libs/greens. Funny how it's been practiced in our familys' households since the 1930's, ain't it?)

In my opinion, this isn't a political issue as much as it's always been a common sense issue. If our country ran its affairs the way most Middle Class 60's-era families ran/run theirs, this wouldn't even be a debate. It would have always been national policy- and pretty much every citizen would have been on-board, by default.


In my opinion, the entire pollution/climate change fight has been manufactured and politicized by Big Industry to keep ordinary everyday folk like you and me locked into a perpetual cycle of unchecked consumption, mounting environmental challenges, and endless 'talking-points fights' fights over "who's to blame why we're here."

When I accidentally ran over the power cord that made my lawn mower go, I repaired the damned power cord. It cost me about 30 minutes of 'cussing time,' and about 10 cents worth of electrician's tape. It's an ugly power cord, but it still makes my mower go... 10 years after the original mishap. A neighbor would have thrown that cable into his trash bin, ran to Lowe's... and spent $40-50 to replace it. In that moment when I CHOSE to repair that power cord, I also chose to be the 'Conservative' My Father raised me to be... in the truest sense of the word.

_____________________

I'm all the way down for the green movement- but not because I'm some flaming liberal tree-hugging extremist. I'm 'down with the cause' because it's a national/global extension of the way I was raised...

By a man who pinched every penny he ever made or spent.
By a woman who sewed her own dresses from bolts of cloth and patterns supplied by Simplicity, Butterick and McCalls.
By a family that always took no more than they could afford, used everything up, and 'made-do' when ends didn't meet.

Arch: the shallow, instantly disposable, possession/money-based 'Modern American Society' that nauseates both you and I isn't some random, aberrant example of "things gone bad." It's the direct result of a carefully-crafted, decades-long campaign by corporations to alter human behavior into mindless rampant consumerism.

We came from the same type of humble stock, and still live to the same standards, even though we hail from different points of origin. We shouldn't be at odds about this particular issue.

America has polluted/despolied the Earth. Fact.
150 years of mass manufacturing has altered the face of the planet. Fact.

She will continue to do so- but some of her folks want to change the rate and way at which she does it... because we don't want our nation to be 'that neighbor' who pisses and poops on his own back lawn that resembles a junkyard. I've driven my own ULEV car through Fulton County for almost 30 years, now. I've seen how some of your neighbors choose to live. In the city, we call it: "Ghetto Life." In The Outback, they call it: 'Good Ol' Boys". You KONW the people I'm describing, don't you?

________________

Main Point:

Those of us who are 'plugged in' do what we can.
We aren't in a position to make nationwide policy, but we can do what we can.

I want turbines in your back yard. I'll gladly live with the birds who die in their spinning blades, if it moves us forward. I want solar panels on my next house. I want them in my retirement home's 'back 40,' because it's the right thing to do.

'Eff' the utilities. If I can find a way to produce most (or all) of my power without costing myself or my neighbor, I'm all-in for such an initiative. And if it means a total re-boot to the way things have always been- so be it.

I'll research Tesla, Chevy Volts, and others as equal, viable options against gasoline-consumers when I buy my next car. I'll weigh the benefits of having something against the cost of owning something...

...because that's how I was raised.


It's never been political for me, Arch.
It's always been about how I can live with myself- through the choices I make.

Other Americans' mileage will vary.

.02,
Clemmy.

You Liberals continue to twist what we are saying to us being against the Planet. It won't work. We do care.

The TRUTH is we don't trust your view that Global Warming is caused by Man. The science has been so politicized that TRUTH has been lost.

(only if I really did) - lol

I applaud you Clem.

On this issue, we are more alike than you would believe.

(home temp in winter at our house: 64 in the living room, 60 in the bedroom - except my daughters room - that is also at 64. A running joke amongst friends we get together with during the winter "Well, if we're going over to Arch's house, wear long johns, long sleeve shirts, and sweatshirts" )

Cousin borrowed a power saw from me about 14 years ago. He returned it when he was "done", he'd cut through the cord. Wondered how much he owed me. I did just like you with the ext. cord. I fixed it, with electrical tape. Still have it, and it runs fine.

Nah, on this issue, you and I are more alike than you may realize.

And like you, (I believe), for me, it's more of a "save me money" thing. It is also a "common sense" thing. Do what I can to use less. (and yes, we take vacations, yes, I use a riding mower. etc)

Take politics out of it. That WOULD be great, wouldn't it?

I'd love to take politics out of it.


It just seems, really, that man made global warming, er, man made climate chan..I mean, climate change is nothing but a new business.

The earth has warmed and cooled since its inception, and it will continue to do so.

Conservation efforts are great. Absolutely. I wish more people were like you and I.

I do it for myself more than I do it for others, but I do it. And I have room to improve, trust me. Some may call me selfish for that. I don't care.

See, I'm thinking of the poster child of climate change here - Al Gore. I'm thinking of "renewable energy credits", where in you pay some company to "off set" your energy consumption. Its base is in a financial sense, not a "conserve" sense.

I DO have a wind turbine in my "back yard". It's a big one, like you see on windfarms. It's not mine, and it sits precisely 434 yards behind my house. I love it.

I looked into getting one for my home - one that would realistically "run" my home. The cost for it, and the savings on my electric bill - it would've taken just under 14 years for it to pay for itself. Except, wait, it would need an approximately $7,000 rebuild every 3-5 years. Add that in, and it would basically never even pay for itself, let alone save me anything.

I, obviously, didn't get one. I suppose that makes me selfish, right?

I love clean water, and clean air. I do. I love nature as well. My problem is the people preaching this stuff, generally speaking, are the ones that stand to profit or ARE profiting now.

The earth has never been static. It's always been changing.

Let's do what we can, but lets not bankrupt the U.S. to save the world when other countries aren't doing crap.

65 million years of cooling

The following two graphs (images created by Robert A. Rohde / Global Warming Art) are climate records based on oxygen isotope thermometry of deep-ocean sediment cores from many parts of the world [1]). On both graphs, colder temperatures are toward the bottom, and warmer https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100014292360134&sk=photos&collection_token=100014292360134%3A2305272732%3A5temperatures toward the top. Significant temperature events on the first graph show the start and end of Antarctic glaciation 34 and 25 million years ago, and the resumption of glaciation about 13 million years ago. It is obvious from the graph that we are now living in the coldest period of Earth’s history for the last 65 million years. Despite recent rumors of global warming, we are actually in a deep freeze.
65 million years of global temperatures

http://joannenova.com.au/2010/02/the-big-picture-65-million-years-of-temperature-swings/

Is it so hard for folks to consider that perhaps both sides are right?

There is a natural cycle of warming and cooling of the planet. There's a mass amount of geological evidence that supports this.

AND

The industrial impacts of mankind have a substantive effect on the environment including the acceleration/magnification of climate change.

SO lets work towards a greener future in a reasonable way that doesn't cause the collapse of the global economy.

Right.

I dunno why it's so bad to want companies to not dump waste in our rivers or oceans, or clean up all the plastic that is harming marine life.

Maybe you should pitch these ideas instead of the fear mongering the sky is falling tactics you currently use? All of these fear mongering predictions never came true. Then there is the do as I say, not as I do mentality. Like Dicaprio who preaches about climate change, then goes and flies around in a private jet.

From Newsweek 1975:



link

And there you go again.

Is there anyone here that wants companies to dump waste in our rivers or oceans, or not to clean up all the plastic that is harming marine life.

NO!

What we don't want is to be lied to or mislead by fudged data and slanted science when it comes to Man causing Global Warming.

Like when your corporate slave owners did their own research on climate science and decided to cover it up?

Which oil company was that, again? Lmfao. It's pathetic how you'll call it slanted science, but when your daddy decides to cover up the evidence, you go silent.

Have a freaking standard for Christ sake. Stop being a sheep.

Canada Dawg hit the nail on the head.

There is no disputing that the climate is trending upwards.

But the argument that 20,000 years ago there were glaciers covering most of North America, while true, is an invalid argument to deny man accelerating global warming.

The earth takes man thousands of years for climate change. We have seen climate change in the past 100 years that would normally take 5000 years.

Now I will say, I thinks it just because there are way too many people for the earth to support and be able to keep up with . More people, means less trees, and things are way out of balance.

Mid 70's we were told of an imminent ice age.

During the 1970s the media promoted global cooling alarmism with dire threats of a new ice age. Extreme weather events were hyped as signs of the coming apocalypse and man-made pollution was blamed as the cause. Environmental extremists called for everything from outlawing the internal combustion engine to communist style population controls.

http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/02/the-1970s-global-cooling-alarmism.html

quote above by king:



It's like you took pieces of other posts and added your own made-up endings.

First off, I looked up and quoted the 20,000 year last glacial age.

Where do you see me denying man accelerated global warming?

In the future, please don't take part of my post and add your own made-up facts.

And umm...

How would you know "natural" global warming takes 5,000 years?

Thermometers were only invented in the 1700s. Let me help you out. That's 300 years ago.

And when they talk about global warming, it's a rise in temperature by a very few degrees over several decades.

Impossible to know without precise temperature measurements taken regularly all over the planet at the very least for several decades.

But if the Youngstown Vindicator said Global Cooling is real, then I guess you have to listen to them. They seem like the people who would know what's going on.

Self-centered much??

WHat I said was not referring to you, I didn't quote or reply to you,

But anyways, they can't tell exact temps but thro8gh geology they can tell when we were in hot periods and ice ages,they can tell where the glaciers, ice caps, and ocean levels were.

and yeah, a few degrees over a couple decades is extremely fast comparred to tens of thousands of years.

I'm not sure what a spreadsheet of thermometer readings from the 1700's would tell you, or even if it what it would signify. However, we can study the temperature in eras past by using ice core data. You can tell the global temperature over centuries by just observing the ice that has formed. They can collect a lot of data about the climate just by the elements trapped in ice.

My bad. I could kick myself.

When I was 7 or 8, it wasn't the youngstown vindicator telling us about global cooling. It was every paper, news channel, and scientist around.

As shown in the graph above, clearly not.

As reported on the news, at the time, we surely were facing an imminent ice age.

And science at the time was saying we were going through global warming. You got bamboozled by the media then and want to fight science now.

And why would you listen to what the news tells you ? Especially back then. We all know the news is FOS. They all have a corporate agenda to create viewers.

Because I was, like, 7 years old.

Apparently, according to you, the news was full of crap back then. But it's not now?


Follow the money.