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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh No idea where Houston finish next year. Is Savage better than Brock? Will Watson shine? Many questions. They were 9-7 with inconsistent QB play but, solid defensive play. Could be worse, could be better. But, the package of 2 firsts/3 seconds and the other picks will certainly allow us to move up and get a guy we want.
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh Two first round picks is better than pick twelve by itself. That is not that hard to figure out.
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh Two first round picks are better than pick twelve by itself. That is not that hard to figure out. Hypothetically. But ECAV isn't all it's cracked up to be.
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh Two first round picks is better than pick twelve by itself. That is not that hard to figure out. You state that as a fact, but it's an opinion. Guys like Tim Tebow were drafted at 25. Guys like Bobby Carpenter were drafted at 18. Guys like Marshawn Lynch and Haloti Ngata were drafted at 12. We can spin that a million ways. All I know is this.............I had a 3rd round grade on Peppers and Hooker as the second best player in the entire draft. To use your logic. It's not that hard to figure out who to take.
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh Two first round picks are better than pick twelve by itself. That is not that hard to figure out. Hypothetically. But ECAV isn't all it's cracked up to be. I'm sure the team has some proprietary system that makes a little more sense than that. With that said, you have to make the right picks.
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh Two first round picks is better than pick twelve by itself. That is not that hard to figure out. You state that as a fact, but it's an opinion. Guys like Tim Tebow were drafted at 25. Guys like Bobby Carpenter were drafted at 18. Guys like Marshawn Lynch and Haloti Ngata were drafted at 12. We can spin that a million ways. All I know is this.............I had a 3rd round grade on Peppers and Hooker as the second best player in the entire draft. To use your logic. It's not that hard to figure out who to take. Adams was my 2nd ranked player. Hooker was in my top 7. I can't factor in the injury since I don't have the insight, none of us do. Reading the detailed report from Mike silver , which was excellent, I think it's very clear Hue wanted Hooker, but they had a high grade on Peppers and hoped he would fall. I'm also certain Williams was high on him. And while you wanted continuation with our Def coordinator.... I gotta say I loved what he said to MG and Peppers .... And the txt from Bruce Smith was special. Hope u are feeling at least a little love for Williams after an episode like that..... And we'll see who was right about peppers. The first round pick next year is for sure nice and of value, but peppers does need to be a starter and a GOOD player for this to pan out as the FO hoped.
Last edited by mgh888; 05/01/17 10:44 PM.
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I hope Williams does well w/the Browns because that would make my team better.
However, I despise the dude. I think he is a punk who talks tough. I played for guys like him and coached w/guys like him. Guys who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, but talk tough to players and anyone else who will listen.
It's fake. It's lame. It's pathetic. I'm an old man, but I'd whoop his punk ass.............guaranteed!
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To use your logic. It's not that hard to figure out who to take. If someone asked me if I could hit a home run in a major league stadium on one swing, I would tell them no I cannot do that. If the person asked me if I could hit a home run on ten swings, I would say no, but my chances would be better. If a person asked me if I could hit home run on one hundred swings, I would say yes because my chances would be better (for the sake of argument let's assume I'm an average ball player who does not fatigue). More swings at the plate increases the odds of hitting a home run. Getting more picks increases our odds of selecting a good player. I've stated on here countless times that picking NFL players is hard. If you are bad at picking players (Thomas Dimitroff recently said that the Falcons did a study and determined only 56% of first round picks end up starting), then you should want as many chances at picking players as possible. Thus the trade down. In trading down every year our front office is acknowledging that picking players is very hard. While it seems like Hooker will be a great player (I wanted him too, I stated as much in the draft day thread), there is a certain percentage chance that he is not a great player (or even serviceable). My guess is that the front office determined that whoever they picked at twenty-five and the first round pick in 2018 has a greater chance at being good than Hooker by himself (this was probably determined in the weeks leading up to the draft). Also, each player has their own lesser chance at being quality. I also believe that the front office had input from the coaching staff on who they wanted and had an inkling they could get Peppers later in draft (Williams reportedly wanted Peppers, Tabor too). This type of collaboration with people who have been in the game a long time (the coaches), combined with the outside the box thinking of the front office can create a very good football team if given time.
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The world might be full of flakes and fakes. And Williams might sound like some you've known. That doesn't mean you know him. And when you read comments from past players and when you hear a HOFer, Bruce fkg Smith giving him love and friendship, to me it sounds like there's much more there than being a loud a.ho!e. . . . Whether u can kick his ass, I don't know and I hope I never find out !
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We all have our opinions and that is fine.
I liken it to buying a product. I am the type who prefers buying quality products that provide great performance and last a long time rather than purchasing cheap products that don't work correctly and need replaced not too far down the road.
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In the end they drafted the players they felt fit what the coaches wanted. I say just let it play out. I really wanted Allens so I hate that we did not pick him BUT we had a glaring need at SS. We picked up a first and filled a major need with a good player that our DC WANTED. I for one am excited to see how this new defense improves.
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh Two first round picks is better than pick twelve by itself. That is not that hard to figure out. I'd rather have Beckham than Johnny AND Gilbert. Trading down from 12 was incredibly dumb. After reading the reports I'm convinced Sashi was flexing some muscle, letting everyone know who was top dog in the organization. I can get on board with more draft picks equals better chance of success AFTER the first half of the first round when all the blue chip guys are gone. That's not what happened here. We had blue chip guys staring us in the face but we always have to be the smartest guys in the room.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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We will just have to wait and see if Peppers plus Houstons first next year is better than what the colts get out of Hooker. I really liked hooker but I cant complain about them passing on a player that wasn't able to work out for them due to a medical.
I really think the interesting one to watch is OJ Howard vs Njoku. I loved Howard but man Njoku has some mad athleticism.
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I'd rather have Beckham than Johnny AND Gilbert. We could have had OBJ after the trade down.
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I liken it to buying a product. I am the type who prefers buying quality products that provide great performance and last a long time rather than purchasing cheap products that don't work correctly and need replaced not too far down the road. The problem with the draft is that you don't know which product you are buying a lot of the time.
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I can get on board with more draft picks equals better chance of success AFTER the first half of the first round when all the blue chip guys are gone. That's not what happened here. We had blue chip guys staring us in the face but we always have to be the smartest guys in the room. You say this like we know that players picked later in the draft will not be blue chip players.
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh They traded 12 for 25 and a pick that will be between 1 and 32 next year. Also, we didn't give up a 4th in the deal. I think a major reason they did the trade is the injury concerns. Hooker and Allen have injury/medical concerns and that has to factor in. Obviously our draft approach is to accumulate draft picks as well, so I'm sure that played a role as well.
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To use your logic. It's not that hard to figure out who to take. If someone asked me if I could hit a home run in a major league stadium on one swing, I would tell them no I cannot do that. If the person asked me if I could hit a home run on ten swings, I would say no, but my chances would be better. If a person asked me if I could hit home run on one hundred swings, I would say yes because my chances would be better (for the sake of argument let's assume I'm an average ball player who does not fatigue). More swings at the plate increases the odds of hitting a home run. Getting more picks increases our odds of selecting a good player. I've stated on here countless times that picking NFL players is hard. If you are bad at picking players (Thomas Dimitroff recently said that the Falcons did a study and determined only 56% of first round picks end up starting), then you should want as many chances at picking players as possible. Thus the trade down. In trading down every year our front office is acknowledging that picking players is very hard. While it seems like Hooker will be a great player (I wanted him too, I stated as much in the draft day thread), there is a certain percentage chance that he is not a great player (or even serviceable). My guess is that the front office determined that whoever they picked at twenty-five and the first round pick in 2018 has a greater chance at being good than Hooker by himself (this was probably determined in the weeks leading up to the draft). Also, each player has their own lesser chance at being quality. I also believe that the front office had input from the coaching staff on who they wanted and had an inkling they could get Peppers later in draft (Williams reportedly wanted Peppers, Tabor too). This type of collaboration with people who have been in the game a long time (the coaches), combined with the outside the box thinking of the front office can create a very good football team if given time. The thing is that when you increase the number of tries your bat is getting thinner, so in your example you get your 100 tries but with a straw not a bat....
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..OJ Howard vs Njoku...
I had Howard as my #12 pick , crazy about his potential in the Pro's ..Guess I was way different than most boards , as I had Njoku as my second TE .. Amazing athlete with huge up side ..
PS , Had Obe ( conn ) at #52
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh I don't know. They still don't have a QB, but their D should be able to win 4-5 games alone. Just to broad brush where the Texans finish, I'd say that pick will be from 10-20.
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh I don't know. They still don't have a QB, but their D should be able to win 4-5 games alone. Just to broad brush where the Texans finish, I'd say that pick will be from 10-20. Unless some people get hurt......... Watt has back problems. Clowney has shown injury issues in the past. That Bouye guy is gone. Crennel is a great coordinator, but injuries happen. We could get a top 10 pick from the Texans next year in that 1st round.
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I'd rather have Beckham than Johnny AND Gilbert. We could have had OBJ after the trade down. Not to toot my horn but if you guys remember I brought obj to light on here when he was still a 4th rounder and I've never came close to pimping a prospect more since. Y'all are bumming me out 
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To use your logic. It's not that hard to figure out who to take. If someone asked me if I could hit a home run in a major league stadium on one swing, I would tell them no I cannot do that. If the person asked me if I could hit a home run on ten swings, I would say no, but my chances would be better. If a person asked me if I could hit home run on one hundred swings, I would say yes because my chances would be better (for the sake of argument let's assume I'm an average ball player who does not fatigue). More swings at the plate increases the odds of hitting a home run. Getting more picks increases our odds of selecting a good player. I've stated on here countless times that picking NFL players is hard. If you are bad at picking players (Thomas Dimitroff recently said that the Falcons did a study and determined only 56% of first round picks end up starting), then you should want as many chances at picking players as possible. Thus the trade down. In trading down every year our front office is acknowledging that picking players is very hard. While it seems like Hooker will be a great player (I wanted him too, I stated as much in the draft day thread), there is a certain percentage chance that he is not a great player (or even serviceable). My guess is that the front office determined that whoever they picked at twenty-five and the first round pick in 2018 has a greater chance at being good than Hooker by himself (this was probably determined in the weeks leading up to the draft). Also, each player has their own lesser chance at being quality. I also believe that the front office had input from the coaching staff on who they wanted and had an inkling they could get Peppers later in draft (Williams reportedly wanted Peppers, Tabor too). This type of collaboration with people who have been in the game a long time (the coaches), combined with the outside the box thinking of the front office can create a very good football team if given time. The thing is that when you increase the number of tries your bat is getting thinner, so in your example you get your 100 tries but with a straw not a bat.... I think a better example would be fatigue. A straw would imply a later pick wasn't valuable at all. Not on either side just thought it'd make more sense.
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh I don't know. They still don't have a QB, but their D should be able to win 4-5 games alone. Just to broad brush where the Texans finish, I'd say that pick will be from 10-20. Defense is very key but I think they were very lucky to get the wins they did being so one dimensional and without watt. With no offensive progress I don't think they could replicate That luck
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They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh I don't know. They still don't have a QB, but their D should be able to win 4-5 games alone. Just to broad brush where the Texans finish, I'd say that pick will be from 10-20. Unless some people get hurt......... Watt has back problems. Clowney has shown injury issues in the past. That Bouye guy is gone. Crennel is a great coordinator, but injuries happen. We could get a top 10 pick from the Texans next year in that 1st round. Could be....though I don't plan on injury. Hard to predict those. At any rate, agreeing with you, I think the chances of it being in say the teens or better are better than it being in the 20's.
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Peppers was Williams choice...btw I don't think Hooker is a SS. But here is what we can expect from Peppers the Williams "Monster" position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUQYW7Od2XQOh and excuse the vocabulary in the music...mute if you watch it with kids...heck mute it if the words offend you...lol
Last edited by eotab; 05/02/17 09:39 AM.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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you know if Deshaun Watson has an Andy Dalton quality season next year they could easily make the AFC championship game or possibly the Super Bowl. That team is stacked.
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you know if Deshaun Watson has an Andy Dalton quality season next year they could easily make the AFC championship game or possibly the Super Bowl. That team is stacked. That's a pretty big IF
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idk that's like asking him just to be average in every way possible. Much better odds than parlaying all their injuries into one season.
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idk that's like asking him just to be average in every way possible. Much better odds than parlaying all their injuries into one season. lol, I disagree. Watson doesn't strike me as an NFL QB. When you look at his whole body of work (and not just the "big games"), he often was carried by his defense. We've seen many winners in college football. Guys like Tim Tebow. And they never were as good as Andy Dalton. Dalton isn't a superstar, but his "average" is something I don't think Watson will achieve this year. EDIT: All in all, I think it's much more likely, that JJ Watt (coming off back problems) and Clowney who went through injuries in 2014 and 2015, plus the loss of AJ Bouye, and Deshaun Watson not being good is more likely to compound to a pick below 20.
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 05/02/17 09:48 AM.
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you know if Deshaun Watson has an Andy Dalton quality season next year they could easily make the AFC championship game or possibly the Super Bowl. That team is stacked.
yeah and if my pig had wings it could fly.
The kid will not be ready to play next year. Not enough for them to win games, their D is pretty awesome though but their division is getting tougher. They very well could be 8-8 or less.
jmho
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In my rankings we took Myles Garrett right where I thought we should take him. We took Peppers 4 picks lower than I thought he would be taken at #21. We took Njoku 1 spot higher than I had him listed at #30. (I had him going to Pittsburgh.)
Unless they finish in the top 9 next year with a new QB, the trade that we made for a second #1 pick works on the trade chart.
The odds of failing with any pick in the NFL are high. Even in the first round, there are tons of failures. Does anyone remember Tony Mandrich, Ryan Leaf, Aaron Maybin or Steve Entman?
Mandrich wasn't just a sure thing when he was drafted. People had him pegged as a future HOFer.
I did have Hooker at #7 on my draft board, but I don't have access to his medical records. He fell for a reason because a lot of teams needed a safety above us in the draft.
Mathematically, it's pretty easy to prove that the bat isn't thinner, it's thicker.
If I were the GM, I probably still would have taken Hooker but I certainly can't throw stones at FO for the value that they got with these picks.
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you know if Deshaun Watson has an Andy Dalton quality season next year they could easily make the AFC championship game or possibly the Super Bowl. That team is stacked.
yeah and if my pig had wings it could fly.
The kid will not be ready to play next year. Not enough for them to win games, their D is pretty awesome though but their division is getting tougher. They very well could be 8-8 or less.
jmho Dak and Russell Wilson were not ready also.... I have no doubts that Watson's command of the huddle will allow him to be successfull in his first year.
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Dak and Russell Wilson were not ready also....
I have no doubts that Watson's command of the huddle will allow him to be successfull in his first year. Dak had the best O-Line in football and fit into a team great. He figured out the Cowboys Offense quickly And Russell Wilson was a far different QB than Deshaun. He played in different offenses too. We don't know how Watson will do. Clemson's offense is not like the NFLs. More than likely, there will be growing pains.
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Do you wish me to list 100 that weren't...was does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
How come everything is in teenie tiny font size???
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Watson sucks.
If we would have drafted him even at 52, I would have been upset.
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Watson sucks.
If we would have drafted him even at 52, I would have been upset. +1 he's honestly the only qb I didn't want
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I am so happy we passed on Watson ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I didn't want Watson in the 1st round. But to say not at #52 is a little mind bending. I view him as good as someone like Bridgewater who was at least adequate for the Vikings. Watson is a little thicker and more durable and one quality you can't deny is his leadership of his team. I don't see the same high ceiling as Trub, Mahomes and Kizer - but he's also less risk imo than Mahomes or Kizer.
.... anyway I thought this was a Peppers thread?
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Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Browns pick Jabrill Peppers with
the 25th pick
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