“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
this trash bill should've never came to existence in the first place.
you better hope it doesn't pass. cause conservative voters will bring the pitchfork and torches and burn their own party at the stake.
it's cool with me either way. can't pass it, y'all once again wet the bed, have a tough 2018 coming. pass it, and your leadership won't have to worry about getting reelected in 2018, as obama has provided plenty of jobs for those politicians to apply for.
Last edited by Swish; 05/05/1705:50 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Here you go 40, since you hang on Trump's every word.
You Liberals and your media are so foolish when you twist what Trump says to fit your agenda.
Watch it again, he is right, Australia does have better healthcare than us because we still have ObamaCare!
But please, continue to play.
I actually see your point on that 40... However look at the Aussies health care plan. It's similar in almost all ways to Canada in that it's a single payer system that covers everyone.
Now what that means is that it's also better than what Trump and the House have approved.
So the point still stands.. Trumps plan is no better (according to AARP, AMA and many other groups).
Keep in mind, the House and the President rushed this bill through without a CBO score and they did it within 24 hours.
That leaves virtually no room or time for discussion or dissenting opinions.
Remember something else, it's not like it was an Overwhelming win in the house. 217 to 213. Not exactly something he (trump or ryan) should be overly excited about.
Given trumps history of lying and cheating about everything, it wouldn't surprise me if we find out that he bought those last 4 or 5 votes with a free membership in Mar-a-lago or some similar enticement.
I'm sure you realize that senate dems will vote no on this. That's a given. But what may surprise you is that there is virtually no support for this plan by the senate republicans.
This plan put forth by the house isn't worth the paper it's printed on. By the time it gets out of the senate, it will be a totally different bill, and then the House will need to go at it again.
This thing that Trump said he'd do the first day on the job may take years...
maybe? If he's lucky. and if recent history teaches us anything, it's that the party that bad or incomplete legislation, gets killed in the mid terms.
If it wasn't for the fact that millions upon millions of Americans would be negatively impacted by this bill, I'd hope for it's passage.
Once people see for themselves that it will kill americans, that will do it. No More Donnie.
So if you feel the need, Gloat over this extremely minor victory, but remember, you heard it here first, it won't pass as is.
What would actually make me a very happy person is if the senate sparked a solid debate and it causes some kind of reconciliation between the parties and they actually do something good for the American people
But frankly, most of them are bought and paid for. So I don't expect anything of value to come out of this.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
you heard it here first. 40 thinks helping the people is a bad thing.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
For my sake? I'm a libertarian. A right leaning one to be sure. I only voted for Trump, because the libertarian candidates were trash, and Hillary was the whole garbage dump. She is a total corporate puppet.
Turns out Trump is an even bigger corporate puppet on a scale never seen before in washington. The republican party are all a bunch of mental midgits who dont have the slightest clue of who their constituants are.
They only had the slightest feather grasp of winning the election. Its over. They have zero chance of winning now.
Even red states will turn blue. They lost GA's house seat, and its going to a Dem.
The republicans are toast if they think they can keep dicking people over.
70% of Americans are on a prescription medication. That is considered a pre existing condition.
Do the republicans really want to dick over that many people? Like I said. Mental midgits.
Oh and Donald Trump and his mental midgit cohorts saying ins premiums will come down. What a flippin joke. Businesses dont work that way. Do you really think they will give the money back? Not till someone prys it out of their cold dead hands.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The main problem with this bill is it's still government run health coverage. They're not supposed to be running businesses, regulating (unfortunately yes) but not running.
The party of 'what you can do for your country' is only asking 'what your country can do for you', and the party of small government, create opportunity isn't actually about small government and isn't creating opportunity like they could.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM my two cents...
the problem is healthcare should never be a business in the first place.
basic healthcare coverage should be a part of the standard of living in this country. it is in most - if not all - developed nations.
if you want to pay more on your own for premium health coverage, that option should be afforded. it's like that in Germany.
something as important as healthcare should not be left to the market as some kind of bidding war.
but that's an ideological difference. so we will probably never agree.
Last edited by Swish; 05/05/1707:42 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Health coverage is one industry that I don't mind being regulated more than others. People buy into it to defray the large cost of health care, therefore they ought to regulate it in such a way as to make it more favorable to policy holders.
These bills (and this applies to the ACA as well) favor the insurance company.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM my two cents...
any bill is gonna favor the insurance companies until you start creating policies that start to take away that power of big pharma and insurance little by little.
the ACA was the first step. next is single payer. but republicans want to take us backwards, and i just do not agree with that.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Sorry bud, envy does not become you. You drooled over hillary.
Dawg... I totally OWN this one, and if you or Swish tryn to git all up on My Girl, there will be violence. I will not tolerate competition. You will be taken OUT.
Ain't nobody getting between me and them liver spots & cankles.
Every Republican who voted for this abomination must be held accountable
By Paul Waldman
When the American Health Care Act passed the House of Representatives on May 4, Democrats waved and sang, "nah nah nah nah, hey hey hey, goodbye," to their GOP colleagues. (U.S. House of Representatives)
Here at the Plum Line, we write a lot about the mechanics of politics — the processes of governing, the interplay of political forces, the back-and-forth between citizens and lawmakers, and so on. We do that because it’s interesting and because it winds up affecting all our lives. But there are moments when you have to set aside the mechanics and focus intently on the substance of what government does — or in this case, what government is trying to do.
I won’t mince words. The health-care bill that the House of Representatives passed this afternoon, in an incredibly narrow 217-to-213 vote, is not just wrong, or misguided, or problematic or foolish. It is an abomination. If there has been a piece of legislation in our lifetimes that boiled over with as much malice and indifference to human suffering, I can’t recall what it might have been. And every member of the House who voted for it must be held accountable.
[Betrayal, carelessness, hypocrisy: The GOP health-care bill has it all]
Theres certainly a process critique one can make about this bill. We might focus on the fact that Republicans are rushing to pass it without having held a single hearing on it, without a score from the Congressional Budget Office that would tell us exactly what the effects would be, and before nearly anyone has had a chance to even look at the bill’s actual text — all this despite the fact that they are remaking one-sixth of the American economy and affecting all of our lives (and despite their long and ridiculous claims that the Affordable Care Act was “rammed through” Congress, when in fact it was debated for an entire year and was the subject of dozens of hearings and endless public discussion). We might talk about how every major stakeholder group — the American Medical Association, the American Hospital Association, the AARP, the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network, the American Heart Association, and on and on — all oppose the bill.
President Trump said various Republican groups came together in the days leading up to the passage of the American Health Care Act in the House of Representatives on May 4 at the White House. (Photo: Jabin Botsford/The White House)
All that matters. But the real problem is what’s in the bill itself. Here are some of the things it does: •Takes health insurance away from at least 24 million Americans; that was the number the CBO estimated for a previous version of the bill, and the number for this one is probably higher. •Revokes the Affordable Care Act’s expansion of Medicaid, which provided no-cost health coverage to millions of low-income Americans. •Turns Medicaid into a block grant, enabling states to kick otherwise-eligible people off their coverage and cut benefits if they so choose. •Slashes Medicaid overall by $880 billion over 10 years. •Removes the subsidies that the ACA provided to help middle-income people afford health insurance, replacing them with far more meager tax credits pegged not to people’s income but to their age. Poorer people would get less than they do now, while richer people would get more; even Bill Gates would get a tax credit. •Allows insurers to charge dramatically higher premiums to older patients. •Allows insurers to impose yearly and lifetime caps on coverage, which were outlawed by the ACA. This also, it was revealed today, may threaten the coverage of the majority of non-elderly Americans who get insurance through their employers. •Allows states to seek waivers from the ACA’s requirement that insurance plans include essential benefits for things such as emergency services, hospitalization, mental health care, preventive care, maternity care, and substance abuse treatment. •Provides hundreds of billions of dollars in tax cuts for families making over $250,000 a year. •Produces higher deductibles for patients. •Allows states to try to waive the ACA’s requirement that insurers must charge people the same rates regardless of their medical history. This effectively eviscerates the ban on denials for preexisting conditions, since insurers could charge you exorbitant premiums if you have a preexisting condition, effectively denying you coverage. •Shunts those with preexisting conditions into high-risk pools, which are absolutely the worst way to cover those patients; experience with them on the state level proves that they wind up underfunded, charge enormous premiums, provide inadequate benefits and can’t cover the population they’re meant for. Multiple analyses have shown that the money the bill provides for high-risk pools is laughably inadequate, which will inevitably leave huge numbers of the most vulnerable Americans without the ability to get insurance. •Brings back medical underwriting, meaning that just like in the bad old days, when you apply for insurance you’ll have to document every condition or ailment you’ve ever had.
It is no exaggeration to say that if it were to become law, this bill would kill significant numbers of Americans. People who lose their Medicaid, don’t go to the doctor, and wind up finding out too late that they’re sick. People whose serious conditions put them up against lifetime limits or render them unable to afford what’s on offer in the high-risk pools, and are suddenly unable to get treatment.
[Did Republicans just score a win on health care — or lose?]
Those deaths are not abstractions, and those who vote to bring them about must be held to account. This can and should be a career-defining vote for every member of the House. No one who votes for something this vicious should be allowed to forget it — ever. They should be challenged about it at every town hall meeting, at every campaign debate, in every election and every day as the letters and phone calls from angry and betrayed constituents make clear the intensity of their revulsion at what their representatives have done.
Perhaps this bill will never become law, and its harm may be averted. But that would not mitigate the moral responsibility of those who supported it. Members of Congress vote on a lot of inconsequential bills and bills that have a small impact on limited areas of American life. But this is one of the most critical moments in recent American political history. The Republican health-care bill is an act of monstrous cruelty. It should stain those who supported it to the end of their days.
I read something on social media that about 85% of us between 50 and 60 years old would have a pre-existing condition. And read the last line to see how bad some increases could be. This is unaffordable to basically all of us.
50 Health Issues That Count as a Pre-existing Condition
Alicia Adamczyk
May 04, 2017
The Republican plan to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act (ACA), which narrowly passed a vote in the House today, rolls back protections for people with pre-existing conditions, which could increase health care costs for an estimated 130 million Americans.
The American Health Care Act stipulates that states can allow insurers to charge people with pre-existing conditions more for health insurance (which is banned under the ACA) if the states meet certain conditions, such as setting up high-risk insurance pools. Insurers still cannot deny people coverage outright, as was a common practice before the ACA's passage, but they can hike up premiums to an unaffordable amount, effectively pricing people out of the market.
In fact, premiums could reach as high as $25,700 per year for people in high-risk pools, according to a report from AARP. People who receive insurance through their employer would not be affected, unless they lost their job or moved to the individual insurance market for some other reason.
170502-pre-existing-conditions-affordable-care-act-obamacare-trumpcare Photo illustration by Sarina for MONEY; Getty Images (5)
But what counts as a pre-existing condition? While it depends on the insurer—they have the right to choose what counts as "pre-existing"—these ailments and conditions were universally used to deny people coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonprofit focusing on health care research.
But Cynthia Cox, Kaiser's associate director, notes that the above list is a conservative sampling of all of the issues and maladies that insurers could count as pre-existing conditions. " There are plenty of other conditions, even acne or high blood pressure, that could have gotten people denied from some insurers but accepted and charged a higher premium by other insurers" says Cox.
Here are some examples of those other conditions that experts have noted could hike premiums:
The left-leaning Center for American Progress notes that high blood pressure, behavioral health disorders, high cholesterol, asthma and chronic lung disease, and osteoarthritis and other joint disorders are the most common types of pre-existing conditions.
Just how expensive are pre-existing conditions? A recent report from the Center for American Progress found that insurers could charge people with metastatic cancer as much as $142,650 more for their coverage, a 3,500% increase.
The Bill from the House must go to the Senate who will change it, maybe completely. Then it goes back to the House for them to make changes to it and send it back to the Senate for more changes. Once everyone agrees, it goes to the President for his signature.
IT IS FAR, FAR TO EARLY FOR EVERYONE'S TEARS AT THIS TIME!!!
We are at best, one fifth of the way thru this process and the final Bill will probably not be recognizable to us from this Bill.
The Bill from the House must go to the Senate who will change it, maybe completely. Then it goes back to the House for them to make changes to it and send it back to the Senate for more changes. Once everyone agrees, it goes to the President for his signature.
IT IS FAR, FAR TO EARLY FOR EVERYONE'S TEARS AT THIS TIME!!!
We are at best, one fifth of the way thru this process and the final Bill will probably not be recognizable to us from this Bill.
This is true. While there is legitimate need for concern, patience is also necessary at this time.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM my two cents...
The Bill from the House must go to the Senate who will change it, maybe completely. Then it goes back to the House for them to make changes to it and send it back to the Senate for more changes. Once everyone agrees, it goes to the President for his signature.
IT IS FAR, FAR TO EARLY FOR EVERYONE'S TEARS AT THIS TIME!!!
We are at best, one fifth of the way thru this process and the final Bill will probably not be recognizable to us from this Bill.
This is true. While there is legitimate need for concern, patience is also necessary at this time.
I will howl with everyone else if Trump doesn't sign a plan that is far better than ObamaCare and helps most Americans!
I don't expect perfection but Good should never be the enemy of Perfection.
why is it that the folks complaining about pre-existing condition penalties ignore that the penalties are avoided if you maintain continuous coverage. There are a multitude of ways to maintain continuous coverage and not have the surcharges take place. Unfortunately, that requires people to be somewhat responsible for there own well being and finances and have a modicum of understanding about their issues and conditions and how to finacially take care of themselves. And that is the problem. The masses in this country expect others to take care of them.
Charlie Munger: 'The amount of waste from overtreatment of the dying is just disgusting'
-Charlie Munger tells CNBC the U.S. health-care system is "ridiculous" in its complexity. -"There's a lot wrong with the system," he says.
Berkshire Hathaway Vice Chairman Charlie Munger told CNBC on Monday the U.S. health-care system is "ridiculous" in its complexity.
"The amount of waste from overtreatment of the dying is just disgusting," the 93-year-old Munger said on "Squawk Box," speaking alongside billionaires Warren Buffett and Bill Gates. "There's a lot wrong with the system."
Munger said the current health system gives U.S. companies a big disadvantage in competing with other manufacturers.
"They've got single payer medicine and we're paying it out of the company," he said.
why is it that the folks complaining about pre-existing condition penalties ignore that the penalties are avoided if you maintain continuous coverage
That's exactly what it was like before Obamacare. People lose their jobs for one reason or another and many for health issues. Most couldn't afford cobra which was basically a high risk pool with temporary coverage.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
