DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Louis Sockalexis' descendants tell Boston Globe 'enough is enough' regarding Indians' Chief Wahoo logo

I can see that Louis Sockalexis' family don't like it and find it demeaning.

But it's not just a claim that it was meant to Honor the man. At least not to my knowledge.

As for if it should stay or go, I don't really have an opinion. But I am more of a tradition guy however. I like Orange helmets with No Logo for the Browns, I like Orange and Brown as our colors for the Browns and I really don't ever want to see that change.

So, since I'm more of a guy that sticks with tradition, I'd rather it not go away, at least not completely.

If they want to lessen it's visibility, I have no issue with it.

Gotta be tough on the family to feel this way and to feel ignored.

Funny thing, I didn't know he had any living family until I read this article. Either it's new brought out or I've just not paid attention.

I think Haus has a decent counter-argument.

Anyone who thinks any less of Native Americans because of this caricature:



Is an irrelevant twit.

It represents a baseball team. Nothing else.

That is sad. These kids are our future.

Anyone who thinks less of a culture due to ridiculous and demeaning images of a culture, or race is just a demeaning twit?

So does this make it okay to make cartoons that demean any race or culture? Just as long as people don't think less of a group?

So blackface, ridiculous statements and depictions of jewish people, and other such parallels are okay as long as you don't think less of the group?

It's okay to use racial slurs as long as you don't think less of a minority group?

Hmmmm are you saying cartoon depictions of the Irish who were demonized and traded slaves and used as indentured servants into the 20th century isn't relevent to the conversation of your arguement? Where does it end is the question? I live next door to MANY reservations and let me tell you if Wahoo is so demeaning why do soooo many Natives buy up all that Wahoo gear and walk around like it is a badge of honor? Why do they use team names such as Braves or Indians themselves? Is this like the N word noone seems to be able to use but is prevelant in mainstream movies and music and all other forms of social media? The hypocrisy of all these subjects turns people off to any message that may be sincere. If you want things to change then EVERYONE has to change or you are simply saying, "No no you can't use it but I/we can cus reasons." You are merely causing the negativity and displacing the "discrimination" and reapplying it to be used by a different group of peoples. Yeah Civil Rights my ass.

You constantly attack White people but it has no effect because it slides off our backs when we consider the ignorant source.

But liberals like to grab hold of insult and Cry Cry Cry. Now that is effective!

I just spent a little time looking up some of the lingo in this thread. Specifically, Furries, Otherkin, SJW, Brony.

What a freak show. Reminds me of beatnik (hipster) jive in the 60s.



Except 10 times weirder.

I teach in an Alaska Native village, and the word "eskimo" remains extremely frowned upon up here. Such cartoon portrayals remain demonized, too.



Sure it can be relevant! They weren't necessarily treated like this in America, which is why Wahoo remains a hot button issue, but I can see a case for that.

I can relate to your views. However, working in a Native American treatment center and just commonly being associated with many members of Sioux, Cheyenne, Crow, Blackfeet etc etc I notice that they buy gear for the Indians and the common theme has very little to do with the team itself they want that logo as more of a pride issue. Like you I base my opinion on personal experience and while you certainly have some that are activists there are just as many who like the logo and what it means to them. It is not as cut and dry an issue nor do I observe people liking their Wahoo because it degrades Native Americans its a logo nothing more and nothing less and while it may not have anything more to do with being a logo it is THE logo generations have grown to love.

That is all it's ever meant to me personally....

What a great, informative and unbiased post! Thank you.

How will you personally be hurt if the Cleveland Indians move away from the logo?

I could ask the same if it were not to be changed for the other side and we could just talk in circles....? Haha just playing.

Personally? I have more than enough reminders of Wahoo in my life as it is. I have a 1948 Wahoo statue bank filled with change from that year given to me by my grandpa. I have baseball cards posters you name it so really it isn't so much about how it would affect me in my everyday life as much as I say it changes the iconic image of the Cleveland Indians baseball team.

Everyday people try to read much more into things than needs to be and often they fail to hit the mark but they do target how people are supposed to feel about certain subjects, basically reprogram them to see things they never thought about a certain subject ie Wahoo. I never once in my 42 years on this planet and being an Indians fan ever saw Wahoo as anything other than the logo for my team. I have never witnessed a fan of my team use Wahoo to degrade Native Americans. I have never seen or felt that way. I have heard non fans say things about the logo but even then they werent attacking Native Americans.

The whole issue to me isn't so much that it may change. It is the false interpretation from people making fans and the team feel shame over something that has never in my experience been anything other than a positive logo and not negative.

Let me ask you, do you think that any professional sports team or company for that matter that is in the mainstream thinks that the best way to sell their brand is to degrade the people buying their product?

Let me ask another, since now we have this whole huge weird gender identification thing going on and what people identify as. How long before those who identify as animals start making a case to outlaw the Cubs or the Bears as being insensitive to their points of view? I realize that in itself is drastic but it is the same common thread.

We disagree on the logo and whether it should be used.

I'm 60 years old and I found the logo demeaning even when I was a kid. I have never liked that logo. I don't think it does anything to honor Native Americans. I think it came from a time when it was okay to mock minorities. "Indians" were often viewed as red skinned, big nosed, leering, drunks.

I perfectly understand that we'll never agree on the subject. All I know is that I hope the team puts Chief Wahoo to bed---for good.

Besides...........just think how much money your collectibles will be worth as time goes on.

I want Wahoo to go, but I'll be a little sad when it leaves.

I have a job for money

I get it, I do. I see where you are coming from and can respect your views. I just don't see the subject as sincere as much as just another political wedge issue being used by people. We will just be on opposite sides of the Big Horn on this topic.

Quote above by Wyo:

“We will just be on opposite sides of the Big Horn on this topic.”

Hee...hee... he made a funny.

(Big Horn, get it? Custard’s last stand? Opposite sides?)

Although there were only two sides:



The outside and the inside. And you didn’t want to be on the inside.



Talk about twits.

They should have court-martialed him.

I guess that would have had to be posthumously.

Obviously you missed a good 150 years of American History. The genocide that existed due to Chief Wahoo was ZERO percent. Try telling me it wasn't.

So now you resort to name calling. Your calling us all twits. Sorry kid.

So now your claiming we can't say the word Eskimo either.Well I can't say what I want to on the board, BUT anybody who is so sensitive and kitty cat fied on the board, deserves to hear it in person. Hopefully we get to meet in person one day bro.

Oopppssss…

Almost forgot.

Welcome aboard Wyo.

Bro............actually it was rockyhilldawg who called people who don't like the logo "twits."

I have polled all my many many Native American friends and they say keep Wahoo. OK, I don't have any Native American friends but if I did I'm sure they don't give a s--t

When I see protesters at the Tribe games they are all a bunch white Liberals with knotted up pantys

Well thanks for the welcome. The one small problem with that is I am not a Cowboys fan . I was born and raised in Ashtabula and for some reason I just couldn't stop moving further West but I refuse to go any further don't think my political views could handle the coast haha.

Ya know your diagram was the unfortunate end of the battle tho they did start on both sides of the BigHorn . I live less than an hour away and have been there many times and if by some miracle Custer had lived he should have been put out to pasture just based on stupidity.

By the way thanks for recognizing my witty little joke I threw in there. I was hoping the clever little bit would get a chuckle.

I live in Montana close to the Blackfeet Reservation. I've noticed this also about the gear, and when I asked about being an Indians fan, I was assured it was a pride issue only. In fact, I get a thumbs-up when I wear my hat or jacket...

I missed that yesterday. *Slapping myself on the forehead* I'm such a twit

*cutting my forehead and handing Clem and Rocket some salt* Here rub this in the wound would you please LOL

Actually I didn't post anything like that.

Versatile Dawg was trying his hand at inflammatory fictional writing as he is want to do.

Who said this:

tsk tsk I think you highlighted the wrong part of that quote if you are trying to describe what he is saying. You should have highlighted the first line as it is the basis for the twit comment.