DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs: Time To Reflect and Look Ahead

It's kinda killing me with local reporters on twitter talking about how Gilbert doesn't care about Cleveland. No duh. The dude has made it clear he would have rather bought the Pistons. I've seen him more angrier that Palace Hills is 30 minutes out of Detroit than he has been about the Cavs not having a GM. I'm happy that he is our owner and has chosen to pay an outrageous luxury tax fee. But I'm not going to get mad that the owner of a team, which plays in a stadium named after the biggest mortgage company in Detroit, doesn't care about Cleveland. These reporters are crying a river over it.

#SellGilbertSell

j/c...

--I kind of think all of this moving of players and giving guys big contracts is going to really mean next to nothing next year. It's like rearranging the deck chairs just for the sake of it. No team has done anything to put themselves on a competitive level with the Warriors or the Cavs.

--Now two teams I like for long-term potential are the Wolves and 76ers. But they are several years away to really compete. I'm really high on Ben Simmons. I think he has the potential to be the next big thing. I watched Fultz today in summer league and that kid is smooth. He's going to be really good 3 years from now.

--The Chris Paul trade for me is just meh. I know I'm in the minority here but I believe Paul is a vastly overrated player at this point in his career. He gets by on reputation only and has done so for several seasons. The Clippers weren't preventing Paul from winning; Paul was part of the problem. I also read that Paul wanted to play off the ball more. I don't understand that at all. He's as prototypical a point guard as you can get. He's a reluctant scorer, and he wants to play off the ball? Not really getting that.

--The Cavs GM situation is a bit of a mess, but I would like to see them come out of this offseason with Melo without giving up Love. If I were Melo, I would be pushing the Knicks for a buyout so I could do just that. A Love for Melo swap makes the Cavs worse, not better. But I like the idea of adding Melo as a fourth guy. I think the Cavs could experiment with some crazy lineups. I think that will put the Cavs on pace with the Warriors.

--I'm torn on this notion that LeBron might leave after this season. Why come home, particularly in such dramatic fashion, only to leave again? Why leave a very talented team? I believe LeBron many years ago determined he was going to do things his way. And I think his way happens to be whichever way the wind is blowing that day or season. At the same time, if he does leave after next year, it will be after the best four year stretch in franchise history (and hopefully a second title). Could anyone really be mad at him (even if it's just the one title)? This is the part I'm conflicted about. I think if he decides to leave, the fans of Cleveland should thank him and wish him well. But why he lives his basketball life season to season or every two seasons to two seasons ... I just don't really get it. But it's his prerogative, and I hope the fans don't turn on him if he decides to leave again.

--On a final note, I was just in Cleveland for 6 days. It was part of a 3 week cross country trip I was doing with my family. We saw a lot of the US along the way. Stopped and toured in several cities, some big and some small. I have to say if I want to feel the big city life, I would choose Cleveland in a heartbeat (granted, it was not the winter). I've been all over the US before this trip and saw some cities on this trip I hadn't seen before. I was surprised how nice Cleveland has become. Big city feel with a relatively small population. It felt clean and safe. Chicago is a toilet (sorry Punch). New Orleans is a toilet. I've lived in Cali and wouldn't do it again. My wife is from LA. Way too crowded and overpriced. My point being is Cleveland's not such a bad place. The stigma it has is really unfair, IMO. It's a shame that you have to have a guy like LeBron to "attract" other players.

I agree. I think the players we have need to quit thinking about scoring 114 and more on holding people under 100.

If hoping the other team is going to miss shots is your defensive strategy, you need a new plan.

I don't see a need for that. He has been a good owner. About all a owner can do is make facilities improvenments, spend money on players, and allow his GM to make his moves. I'd say Gilbert has done a good job of that.

I am not sure what it is that would make you want him to sell.

I also think NO is in a good position to make a serious move.

As for LeBron....he did his thing here. If he moves on, no beef from me. I still think we are in a good position. It will take a little time, but it's hard to say you don't have anything. Irving and Love are two pretty good building blocks. I think minus LeBron, both guys will benefit.

I think Love is a better player with his back to the bucket. He can score inside, and then with a center on him, he can bounch outside, taking the center with him to open up the lane or shoot a 3.

So, we have one owner in Cleveland who spends more money than any other in the league and another who is the cheapest in the league. One won a championship and the other obtained the first pick in the draft this year. One who hasn't had legal problems and another who is a crook.

Yet, we want the one w/all the positives to sell the team and we support the cheap-skate crook.

In the article, I assume it meant to we the Cavs would trade Frye and Shumpert to NY in exchange for Anthony.

Why would NY do that? That wouldn't be a good trade for them.

Maybe not player wise, but contract wise it would be smart. Ny is in rebuild mode, so they are looking to unload melo's contract and start over.

I guess. I don't always think of that possibility.

That may be one of the silliest comments I have ever read on this board. Go walk around downtown Cleveland and say Gilbert doesnt care about Clevland. He has owns three teams that play at QUICKEN LOANS Arena. He has the casino downtown, and a part in numerous development projects in Cleveland.

Of course, he would have preferred to buy his hometown team, who wouldn't? But he couldnt and he has definitely went all in on Cleveland .

Maybe he,Mr. Gilbert could convince LBJ to take an intern GM-VP role,just a thought.

Melo also has a no trade clause and has said he'll only waive it for Houston and the Cavs. If they want to trade him, they'll do it for scraps. Either that or they'll buy out his contract, which they don't want to do yet.

I think it's funny how volatile Cleveland fans are when supporting their owners. Gilbert went all out originally when Lebron was here, trying his best to win with what they could, and everybody loved him. People begged him to buy the Browns. Then Lebron left, Cleveland stunk for a few years, and suddenly Gilbert was a bad owner. He wouldn't shell out to magically make Free Agents appear here, and he needed to sell the team. Then Lebron came back, he handed out contracts to everyone, and he was amazing again. Now suddenly, people think he sucks as an owner once more ... for no other reason than speculation that Lebron hates him and wants to leave.

Meanwhile Dolan sucked as an owner for years despite having some of the highest payrolls in the late 90s when he bought the team. Then when they went to the World Series again, and he actually had some money to shell out again, people are cool with him.

The only thing I'll say is that the Griffin fiasco looks really bad.

If not for that. We are just a team trying to retool.

Suddenly we are a team with no direction, interviewing TV Analysts, that will "suck" in two years..

I'm so glad 2016 happened.

Reading reports Gordon Hayward to Celtics.

Boston: Added Jason Taytum and Gordon Hayward
Cleveland: Has LeBron
Toronto: Treading water
Washington: Young but improving
Atlanta: Traded away Howard
Milauwakee: Young but improving
Indiana: Traded away George
Chicago: Traded away Butler

I predict Indiana and Chicago to bottom out. And possibly Atlanta to either get worse, or maybe better(?) after dropping Howard.

Most likely replacement in my opinion. In no order. Detroit, Charlotte, and yes even maybe the 76ers...

With all that. It's still Cleveland vs Boston. And I don't think Gordon and Taytum are enough to bridge the gap that was clearly there this past season.

The Wizards are an interesting team. But it would require John Wall to hit that next level. Which I'm not sure he has.

atlanta already got worse

paul milsap is with the nuggets now.

Yeah I just realized that. They are done.

But in response to all the doom and gloom, beyond this season.

Say LeBron leaves. And goes West. (Because what other team would he go to in the east?)

Kyrie, Love, and Tristan, IMO are still at least a top 4 team on paper, at this moment. Depending on how other teams develop obviously.

76ers only reason to watch the East next year tbqh

on paper, i agree.

but they have a sub 500 record when lebron doesn't play.

i think over a course of an 82 game season, the first full year without lebron, we might make the 5th or 6th seed with those 3, and probably get bounced in the first round.

You know what would be funny. Lebron goes to the Lakers because he wants to live in the shadow of Kobe, and loses in the second round to Golden State or San Antonio ... And Cleveland goes to the Finals, because they're still in the East.

It'll still be CLE vs GS in next year's finals (expecting the same result) but Boston will be the team in the East when we dismantle in 2018

Yep..............all I know is that we are still the favorites to play in the Finals. I will say that it hurts that Boston got Hayward. He's a good player.

Assuming the Celts and us are playing well and healthy and we don't add Melo or Wade after their teams buy them out, I think the series goes the distance and it's a coin flip game 7 that might come down to the owner home court.

I think Wade and Melo both get bought out. The Bulls are trying to bottom out and the Knicks, well they're the "Knicks". And if they're free agents, they'll sign with Cleveland for one run at a title. If they're playing on the 2nd unit, that would really make a big difference.

let's just assume Melo and Wade do end up here (it's a long stretch, but JMO) ...

Lebron
Kyrie
Love
Smith
Thompson

Wade
Carmelo
Korver
Calderon


is there enough defense to contend with GS? I'm not even sure how we could add any other pieces though.

Thats the rub, offense isn't our problem, defending...unless we are going to score 140 a game to beat the warriors

j/c...

LeBron isn't going anywhere. He'll retire in Cleveland. It's nothing more than something for the media to speculate on and get clicks and page views. I can't fault them, it's their job. Not even a concern of mine at all that he's leaving..

Looking forward to watching Part IV of the Cavs vs Warriors next year in the Finals.

Yeah, he would never do what we've already seen him do before.

I just think that leaving doesn't really "help" him.

Say he goes to the Lakers.. and so does PG13. Assuming they can get past the Spurs and GS.. and he wins a title in LA..

"Pfft, Kobe won 5 here..."

If he leaves. And there's a big chance he might. He becomes a "ring chaser". And "chasing rings" does not add to ones "legacy".

So the only other places that I think he could go (besides the dumpster fire that is the Knicks)
That might "help" his legacy, is Philly. It's a big media market. And maybe if that team learns enough this year, and he puts them over the top next year? I think that'd be something.

Also, side note. I wonder how many people realize that we already traded LeBron once...

I know we're in a new era of "NBA Super Teams" with crazy player movement, but I don't personally agree with your statement. As far as KD goes, he has a ring and it counts. I know he joined a 73-win team and some view that as doing it "the wrong way", but he helped them win and that's all that counts in my book.

If Lebron wins three more rings with the Lakers, Celtics or the Warriors, he'll have 6, not 6*.

A few random thoughts that aren't really linked together. And aren't really complete.

Robert Horry has 7 rings. Holy crap. Sure he was always a peice on a team. But the dude just seemed to always be on the right team. Also hit some "Big Shots" along the way.

Kevin Durant is an NBA Champion. Was he the driving force for the team? Of course. Were they going to get to and win the Finals anyways? Possibly.

Does the fact that he literally went to the team that beat him the previous year make it seem really, really lame? I think so.

I think LeBron knew he had to come back here and win a title after winning in Miami. And while I don't think KD is ever going back to OKC, I feel like he "knows" winning it in GS isnt the same thing as had they won in OKC.

I think Golden State is overrated. (Hold on) Are they like, one of the best put together teams ever? Probably. But first it was "82-0!" And now, because we played below our potential they are basically "unbeatable". Which I disagree with.

I know Cavs/Warriors IV is basically almost set in stone. And maybe that's what the NBA wants. Because either of those teams playing almost anyone else (besides Cle/SA) is probably a depressing sweep.

Hopefully we can steal another one.

So we can look forward to the "2nd rubber match"

/rambling

GS just added Nick Young, and we got......oh yeah RJ again...we may possibly get back to the finals, but we will be swept this time..we simply don't have enough, and the rich get richer with GS

That's the one move I would actually understand him making. The media has made it perfectly clear that it doesn't matter how you win a ring, just that you do it. So if he were to join the Warriors to completely stack the deck further and win more championships, I could hardly blame him.

Going to the Lakers just doesn't make sense to me though. Like none. The reasons given for him going are something along the lines of: "He wants to be in movies, his wife supposedly wants to live there, and he hates Dan Gilbert". None of which have actually been confirmed with actual quotes or sources.


So to that, here's reasons why he WOULDN'T want to go there:

1) The Lakers would have a young Brandon Ingram, young Lonzo Ball, Paul George, Lebron and scrubs. That team is still getting smoked by the Warriors and probably the Spurs. They likely aren't seeing the West Conference Finals, let alone the Finals themselves. In the East he has a yellow brick road to the Finals. So it's not like he's really improving his chances of a Championship resume.

2) And I can't stress this enough ... he'd be living in the shadows of Kobe, Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. Like literally. Those banners would hang from the rafters and cast shadows down on Lebron every game. If he somehow won a title, great ... the fans there would say "Thanks, Kobe's still better"

3) To that effect, he's passing up the chance to be a local legend. If he ends his career here, he likely gets a retired number, a statue in front of the building, and takes over the mantle of Mr. Cavalier. If he goes to LA, he's never going to surpass Kobe and those other guys. He might get a plaque on the wall that said, "Lebron once played here". Meanwhile in Cleveland, after twice scorning the team, he'd be lucky to get a retired number.

4) The media needs Lebron in LA more than Lebron needs to be in LA. We've seen this before. 2007, 2010, 2014, and now. Every time there's a chance for Lebron to go to LA, everyone in the media thinks he's going there. The only time he didn't pick LA, he went to play with friends in Miami instead. Meanwhile, Lebron doesn't need LA to do movies. He's already done one, and most of that stuff happens in the off-season anyway.

5) And this is my obscure one ... I don't see him going to LA, cause he wouldn't want to inadvertently boost the Big Baller brand. Remember, he's said before that Nike is his REAL boss, because they pay him way more than the Cavs do. Can you see Nike wanting to OK this? First, they've already got the LA market locked down with the Kobe brand. They wouldn't need Lebron there. But more importantly, would they want him there in LA, boosting Lonzo Ball's stats and making him look like the next big thing? That would really boost their brand, and I don't think Nike wants an up-start indie shoe company getting slice of market share just because Lebron wanted to make movies.

So maybe he does actually go there. But I just don't see how it makes any sense for him.

Yawn.

LeBron going to the Warriors could literally be the reason I stop watching the NBA.. first, he would have to take a significant pay cut to do it.... and if he won't take one here to build the Cavs but will take one there so they can look like the NBA version of the dream team.. then yea, I would have little interest in watching any of that.

Report: Cavs lowballed offers to Chauncey Billups
https://www.thescore.com/news/1329733

Cleveland Cavaliers team owner Dan Gilbert apparently continues to shortchange his front-office executives - and would-be front-office executives - when it comes to compensation.

The Cavaliers' pursuit of Chauncey Billups for the role of team president failed partly because they made him a seriously below-market salary offer of $2 million per year, sources told ESPN's Chris Haynes and Dave McMenamin.

The initial offer from the Cavs was reportedly $1.5 million. The industry starting point for a team president's salary is $4 million, league sources said.

Billups instead chose to participate in the BIG3 league and return to ESPN as a TV analyst.

Gilbert also refused when Cleveland's former president, David Griffin, asked for a competitive raise in contract negotiations. Griffin earned less than $2 million per year. In addition, the Cavaliers barred Griffin from interviewing for other vacancies around the league.

The fallout saw Griffin - the architect of Cleveland's only championship in five decades - leave the franchise on the eve of free agency. However, the separation only occurred after other vacancies had been filled, leaving Griffin without a job.

Assistant general manager Koby Altman is running the Cavaliers on an interim basis until a full-time replacement can be found - apparently, at a heavily reduced price.

not a good look for Gilbert there