DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum AFC North Q&A: Who should start at quarterback for the Browns in 2017?

What if Hue thinks he is ready?

That is really all that matters. We don't know - and won't know for awhile - what Hue is thinking. We are debating Kizer's readiness simultaneously with discussing which guy may emerge as the starter. Each guy has legitimate weaknesses and talents. Hue seems to be a coach who is very cautious with playing a guy before he is "ready". Whatever "ready" means. S Coleman and Fabiano on OL last year. The young WRs. Ed Reynolds on D.

BO needs to clean up his mechanics and learn the offense. Those things are on him. BO has been around a long time. I think he will get slightly better mechanically, but he is what he is...and just MIGHT be the best one of the three.

DK needs more experience and needs to clean up his mechanics. One of those things is on him, the other is simply a matter of time and effort. DK is the wildcard. He's got it physically...no doubt. But he has to work at / improve at all phases of the game. That's a tough task for a rookie. He had/has the longest road of the three.

CK proved himself to be smart and accurate with the football, the huddle, the media, etc. He also showed an unwillingness to throw the ball downfield...with revolving doors in front of him and basically one WR to throw to and zero meaningful reps in camp. He has already shown that he has what it takes to run an offense (at least at the game-manager level) after being thrown in the fire wearing a gasoline suit. The lingering "arm strength" issue will define him. I believe he has a reasonable likelihood of acceptably overcoming his issues with the combo of core and strength training, a real OL in front of him, and "better" weapons to throw to.

I think BO & CK are ready now...but may not be the best QB. I think DK is a long way from being ready. Then again, I'm a CPA and not a football coach...so there's that.

I believe maybe you should review the last couple of pages. Some, along with myself say that Hue should be the judge of which QB gives us the best chance to win. Which QB should be the starter no matter what. That he sees them in the classroom and on the field every day giving him far more insight to which QB should start.

Others are saying he shouldn't start no matter what Hue thinks.

I think there are a lot of pre-season head coaches floating around with only snippets of information from reporters.

No one except the coaching staff is in a position to know which QB understands the offense at this point in time.

Just sit back and watch, and the answer will become apparent.

+1, JMHO, Hue makes the decision who starts....unless Dee has more power than we think....time will tell IF Kizer is ready and is Hue's choice.....I don't care, just win some games...GO Browns!!!!

I think that we are having 2 conversations here.

1, Is Kizer ready?
2, Is Kizer the best Qb on the roster?

I think the answer has to be yes to both for him to start.

Even if he is the best QB on the roster, if he isn't deemed "ready" (whatever "ready" means) then he shouldn't start. We need to be more concerned with his long term development than the possibility of winning 1-2 more games this year.

If he is ready but isn't the best Qb on the roster then the best Qb should start. Though I see this as an unlikely scenario.

What I would like see:

Cody or Brock start the season. Then transition to Kizer at a favorable point in the schedule. I think sitting for a game or 2 to see the speed and learn the preparation process would be beneficial. I also think that it is a bad idea to throw him to the wolves against Pittsburgh then Baltimore. Good places to start might be, week 3 vs indy, week 5 vs the jets, week 8 vs minn then he gets the bye week followed by Det then Jax.

Some people might want to point out that Wentz started week one. But he got lucky that the Philly schedule started with Cle then Chi. Possibly the 2 worst defenses in the NFL last year. Nice confidence builder.

My hope is whoever starts week one plays well enough to hold the position for the next 8 years.

I think out trio of QB's gives us something to work with. Probably as good a situation as we have seen in a long while. Something makes me feel that Brock is going to emerge and take the position.

What I am getting from Diam is this:

If Hue thinks Kizer is ready to start the season opener, Diam thinks that Hue is making a mistake and that Kizer simply is not and will not be ready.

I don't doubt that Hue will make the decision regardless of what anyone else thinks. I'm sure Diam knows that too.

$.02

And that theory is seriously flawed. Hue has Kizer in the classroom and on the field every day. Nobody would be better qualified to know if Kizer is ready to start than Hue.

That's the rub. Daim thinks he knows better. I don't believe he has the evidence to base that decision on and Hue does. Hue makes a seven figure salary to make that decision. You have identified the issue but I think it's a poor argument on Diams behalf.

Hue is not going to make that decision because Kizer will not be ready. There is too much to learn in too little time.

I'd love Kizer to prove me wrong, but Kizer just has too much on his plate to prove me wrong. It will be a huge success if Kizer learns enough to start before the season ends.

His best chance in starting is if two other QB's get hurt this year.

Are you saying that specifically about Kizer? Or Rookie QBs in general?

Because I don't think you can say that about rookies in general. As it's a player to player thing.

And if you're saying it just about Kizer. Then.. how do you know that?

In some ways though, if Kizer impresses enough, he could be the starter.


I mean, we saw Big Ben his rookie year basically barely ever pass the ball out of any situation that wasn't play-action, to create a situation where he was pretty darn successful.


A solid running game and a simplified offense for the right rookie QBs works. Matt Ryan had it in Atlanta his rookie year (with that RB, I think... Michael Turner), Big Ben in his rookie year with the Bus (where the Steelers went to the superbowl), Dak Prescott had the power of Zeke and the Cowboys O-Line to make things much easier for him too.


Not saying that we can do that, but plenty of rookie QBs have proven successful, they just have to be put in the right situation, and not asked to do too much. I mean, heck, in Cody's first start, we should have beaten the Dolphins had that kicker not missed all those fieldgoals....

Kizer needs to learn a real offense. He needs to learn drop backs from being under center. He needs to learn to process coverages quicker. Most importantly though, he needs to learn better accuracy under pressure and that isn't something that is learned quickly.

He has some great physical traits, but the mental ones that he lacks take time to learn.

I think your post exemplifies a mistake that many coaches make. When a rookie starts at Qb, they expect them to run the offense the same way that a 10 year veteran would. When that happens, it is almost never successful and frequently results in long term set back to that Qb's development.

Most rookie Qb's who have success come in with a one read or read half the field style offense combined with a solid running game.

(Note the words almost all and most. I know there are exceptions)

This isn't something I'm really too concerned with.


Cleveland Browns have Terry Pluto wondering about Cody Kessler -- Terry Pluto

Updated on July 10, 2017 at 11:06 AMPosted on July 9, 2017 at 6:00 AM

BY TERRY PLUTO, THE PLAIN DEALERterrypluto2003@yahoo.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Part of me wants to believe in Cody Kessler.

I'm talking about him becoming a decent NFL quarterback who can be an Alex Smith-type game manager. Or maybe a Brian Hoyer-style quarterback, at least the healthy version of the St. Ignatius product.

There are some things to like about Kessler.

1. He was thrown into a nearly impossible situation with the Cleveland Browns last season. He opened as the No. 3 quarterback, who doesn't receive a lot of work in practice. After injuries to Robert Griffin III and Josh McCown, Kessler was the starter in week 3.

2. In his first five starts, he completed 89 of 133 passes (67 percent), good for 4 TDs and an interception.

3. In three of those five starts, he threw for 223, 244 and 336 yards. They scored at least 20 points in three of those five starts. They managed 20 or more in four of the 11 other games.

4. I have concentrated on Kessler's first five starts because they came before his first concussion. He was never quite the same after that. He had a second concussion and other injuries.

5. Kessler played in nine games (eight starts), completing 66 percent of his passes (92.3 rating), 6 TDs vs. 2 interceptions. Not bad numbers on a horrible 1-15 team.

6. Add in Kessler's maturity, work ethic and passing accuracy (valued by the coaches) and it's understandable why he will probably be the starter when veteran's camp opens.

A HIDDEN STAT

Andrea Hangst inspired me to write about Kessler when I discovered her excellent story on the Browns quarterback. She wrote it for Dawgs By Nature, one of my favorite NFL sites.

Her theme was a question: Would an improved offensive line help Kessler. The obvious answer is ... Yes. But how much?

Hangst hit on one of my biggest issues with Browns quarterbacks -- they hang on to the ball too long. According to NFL.com, Browns quarterbacks caused at least some of their own problems by indecision in the pocket.

Here's a breakdown:

1. It's a blink of an eye. The fastest quarterback getting rid of the ball was Nick Foles (2.36 seconds). The slowest was Tyrod Taylor (3.12).

2. This chart rated 50 quarterbacks. The average time was 2.60. Brock Osweiler (2.61) was 26th out of 50. So that's OK.

3. I mentioned Alex Smith and Hoyer in connection with Kessler. I didn't look up their times until I had used their names. Here we go: Smith is No. 2 (2.37) and Hoyer is No. 13 (2.49).

4. Kessler has mentioned Drew Brees as one of his role models. The New Orleans quarterback was No. 4 (2.43).

5. McCown ranked No. 42 (2.80).

6. Griffin ranked No. 44 (2.84).

7. Kessler was No. 49 (2.89), only ahead of Taylor.

SO WHAT?

1. The Browns had three quarterbacks in the bottom eight. Is that a coincidence? I don't think so.

2. McCown and Griffin are notorious for hanging on to the ball too long. They want to give their receivers time to get open. Griffin also likes to run around and make plays with his legs.

3. But what about Kessler? I have checked several pre-draft scouting reports, none talked about hanging onto the ball too long. Arm strength was an issue. So was being only 6-foot-1. Small with an average arm at best seemed to be the consensus.

4. But Kessler simply kept the ball too long. It's part of the reason he suffered two concussions. He was knocked out of another game with an injury. So Kessler failed to finish three of eight starts. Durability is a major concern.

5. According to Profootballfocus.com, Kessler threw 47 percent of his passes "under pressure." That was the most in the NFL. Next were Andrew Luck and Jared Goff, both at 44 percent.

6. At times, it seemed the speed of the game overwhelmed Kessler. Some of that can change in his second year as he's becoming more accustomed to the fact that even the biggest defensive linemen can usually run faster than you originally think.

7. But I also believe Kessler and all the quarterbacks were hurt by the receivers. They didn't get open quickly. None of the QBs developed chemistry with any receiver/tight end, partly because there were so many QB injuries.

8. To be an effective quarterback with his size and limited arm strength, he has to get rid of the ball fast. Receivers have to run short, crisp patterns. The offense has to look precise. That rarely happened in 2016.

9. I wish the Browns had done more than replace receiver Terrelle Pryor with Kenny Britt. David Njoku could make an impact at tight end, but the first-rounder is a rookie. Big time, athletic receivers can help even a so-so quarterback look effective.

10. The coaching staff will have to use the running backs more often in the passing game. Duke Johnson and Isaiah Crowell combined for 93 catches in 2016. That's a lot. But I believe they can do even more.

BOTTOM LINE?

1. When it comes to Kessler, I have significant doubts. In minicamps, he had too many passes batted down at the line of scrimmage. He seldom completed deep balls. He was accurate on short throws.

2. He is an inexperienced quarterback who will be throwing to mostly inexperienced receivers. He should have more time, thanks to a revamped offensive line.

3. Kessler stays away from turnovers. He will know the offense well. He does have poise and leadership ability. It's possible Hue Jackson can turn him into a respectable quarterback. I just wish I saw more to be excited about in the minicamps.

4. That said, real football begins in late July when the players return and actually wear pads. For young quarterbacks, preseason games matter a lot because it's the first time they can really be tackled. So I'm open to seeing more of Kessler.

5. I know fans want to talk about the other quarterbacks. We will do that in the next few weeks. This is the dead zone for NFL news, so I concentrated on Kessler.

6. I'm higher on Osweiler than many in the media and fans, mostly because of his experience and his success in Denver.

7. I'm not as enamored with Kizer as some. Physically, he is an NFL quarterback. But he has so much to learn. He seldom took snaps under center or worked out of a huddle until joining the Browns.

8. We can talk Browns, Cavs, Indians, quarterbacks and everything else when I come to Mayfield Library. My talk is Monday at 7 p.m. It's free! You can register here.

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