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Those darned Catholics are at it again.  Pope: Other Christians not true churches By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 32 minutes ago LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches. ADVERTISEMENT Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians. It was the second time in a week the pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church. On Saturday, Benedict revisited another key aspect of Vatican II by reviving the old Latin Mass. Traditional Catholics cheered the move, but more liberal ones called it a step back from Vatican II. Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition. In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II's ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt. It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation." In the new document and an accompanying commentary, which were released as the pope vacations here in Italy's Dolomite mountains, the Vatican repeated that position. "Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles. The Rev. Sara MacVane of the Anglican Centre in Rome, said there was nothing new in the document. "I don't know what motivated it at this time," she said. "But it's important always to point out that there's the official position and there's the huge amount of friendship and fellowship and worshipping together that goes on at all levels, certainly between Anglican and Catholics and all the other groups and Catholics." The document said Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope — a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said. "This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an 'internal constitutive principle' of the very existence of a particular church," the commentary said. Despite the harsh tone of the document, it stresses that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue. "However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive, it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith," the commentary said. The document, signed by the congregation prefect, U.S. Cardinal William Levada, was approved by Benedict on June 29, the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul — a major ecumenical feast day. There was no indication about why the pope felt it necessary to release the document, particularly since his 2000 document summed up the same principles. Some analysts suggested it could be a question of internal church politics, or that it could simply be an indication of Benedict using his office as pope to again stress key doctrinal issues from his time at the congregation.
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Well,with the insertion of Easter,December 25th,the Christams tree and so many other symbolic pagan customs brought into Christianity by the Cathlics,I don't see where he has much room to scrutinize "other Religions". 
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Well,with the insertion of Easter,December 25th,the Christams tree and so many other symbolic pagan customs brought into Christianity by the Cathlics,I don't see where he has much room to scrutinize "other Religions".
Amen!
Not to mention, moving the sabbath from saturday to sunday
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Well,with the insertion of Easter,December 25th,the Christams tree and so many other symbolic pagan customs brought into Christianity by the Cathlics,
\
Those are some of the finest examples of good marketing in History . The Church fudges the dates and gathers more converts into the fold. Consequently with the increase of converts so goes the increase of funds into the Church coffers. Told ya it was a brilliant move.
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We don't have enough trouble in the world ; Lets stir the pot !
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Whatever the Pope says is true because God talks to him.
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Whatever the Pope says is true because God talks to him.
God also talks to the bum I pass everyday on the way into work. 
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This is boring . Where are all of the Papists to counter this muckraking?
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Everyone who practices religion and or another belief system believes theirs is the best; no one walks a path they believe to be inferior. Benedict is articulating that for himself and the church's followers, although I really don't understand the timing of restating something that's been a Catholic belief for ages. Perhaps he's trying to energize his faithful that have been too absorbed in this "everyone is right and all opinions are equal" culture.
Regardless, I can't believe that people care so much about a statement like this; I'd expect every good Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, Athiest, etc. to speak the same way about their beliefs. If you're a Protestant that believes in the validity of all religion, what's to stop you from going to a Mosque to pray on Sunday instead of church?
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This is boring . Where are all of the Papists to counter this muckraking?
Bored ... and uninterested in jumping in the muck.
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Aww c'mon at least this would differ from our normal political arguments. 
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Why? Because it's not the usual political crap ... it's holy crap? 
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This is boring . Where are all of the Papists to counter this muckraking?
Bored ... and uninterested in jumping in the muck.
Damn it man! You're NO fun!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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He shoots....He scores !!
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Muslim leaders are far worse than the Pope.
yebat' Putin
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Ted Nugent said,"that Davy Crockett shooting at Santa Anna's Army was the right thing to do, he just wouldn't get the Hispanic vote today".
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The Pope is an idiot.... donations must be down and the coffers getting empty, time to drum up interest  He seems to forget that FAITH, BELIEF & SPIRITUALITY is important, choice in Religion (a.k.a. choice in method of worship or communication) is not.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Everyone who practices religion and or another belief system believes theirs is the best; no one walks a path they believe to be inferior. Benedict is articulating that for himself and the church's followers, although I really don't understand the timing of restating something that's been a Catholic belief for ages. Perhaps he's trying to energize his faithful that have been too absorbed in this "everyone is right and all opinions are equal" culture.
Regardless, I can't believe that people care so much about a statement like this; I'd expect every good Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, Athiest, etc. to speak the same way about their beliefs. If you're a Protestant that believes in the validity of all religion, what's to stop you from going to a Mosque to pray on Sunday instead of church?
He's trying to ramp up faith so they can start a Jihad. Or in Roman Catholicism that would be a Crusade, wouldn't it?
Last edited by FloridaFan; 07/10/07 04:16 PM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles.
The document said Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope — a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said.
"This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an 'internal constitutive principle' of the very existence of a particular church," the commentary said.
Despite the harsh tone of the document, it stresses that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.
"However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive, it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith," the commentary said.
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They're off arguing with the Baptists who preach all Catholic will go to hell. Or arguing with the other "born again faiths" for the same reason. Or maybe they are arguing with the other christian religions that allow their flocks to do what ever they want as long as they fill their coffers too.
#gmstrong
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This commentary has been brought to you by the proud sponsors of the Spanish Inquisition.
Man, I didn't know Pope Benedict was over 500 years old. 
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He seems to forget that FAITH, BELIEF & SPIRITUALITY is important, choice in Religion (a.k.a. choice in method of worship or communication) is not.
On this,we agree 100%.
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Have you looked at Pope Palpatine lately?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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And, I care what the pope says for what reason again? At least he's not telling catholics to go kill others.
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yawn.... I'm sorry is that the sound of Christians or the church as a whole unable to agree on who's right, let alone what to order for lunch again?
Wake me when some real news hits.
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And, I care what the pope says for what reason again? At least he's not telling catholics to go kill others.
Not recently. But history shows the papacy has been one of the biggest tyrants and terrorists.
I hope we don't revisit those days.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I'm with you ... although I think that sound you hear is the media trying to stir the pot.
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This commentary has been brought to you by the proud sponsors of the Spanish Inquisition.
Man, I didn't know Pope Benedict was over 500 years old.
So you're saying the Pope only speaks for himself and does not represent the Catholic Church?
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.
On behalf of those who claim I am a bible thumper.... The Pope can kiss my entire ASS.
He is nothing more than a ignorang arsehole.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Let's look at the first paragraph and a later paragraph and see if the first paragraph is consistent with the later one.
"Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches."
not true churches??????
"...The document said Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope — a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said."
were indeed "churches"
So what we are seeing here is that the Pope says that the R.C. Church is the true church....that other Christian churches have some "DEFECT" by virtue of not following the succession of St. Peter.
Most other Christian denominations believe that the RC Church is defective by virtue of the Papacy/confession thru your priest.
Seems as each are equally short sighted but I'll put up the good works of the RC Church in recent times to the good works of other denominations.
By the way the most explosive growth of the Roman Catholic Church occurs in much of AFRICA. In so far as the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday...the traditional Hebrew sabbath occurs at sundown Friday thru Saturday evening. Most Muslims take sabbath as Saturday while virtually all other Christian denominations honor the sabbath on Sunday.
The RC Church accepts Saturday evening services as the sabbath requirement equally as Sunday services.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Man, he could've used the "we're the only church that can trace our bishops back to apostolic succession" in a less arrogant manner...and still rubbed it in. He ruined his ace card.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Man, I didn't know Pope Benedict was over 500 years old.
So you're saying the Pope only speaks for himself and does not represent the Catholic Church?
No... you missed the point. Making a comment like that is the equivalent of knocking Americans today for slaughtering native Americans or the Salem Witch Trials. Believe it or not, things have changed in the Church in the last 500 or so years.
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Well,with the insertion of Easter,December 25th,the Christams tree and so many other symbolic pagan customs brought into Christianity by the Cathlics,I don't see where he has much room to scrutinize "other Religions".
Wow. I made this point before and I do believe I was told I was wrong. This is how the church assimilated most of the European pagans. The combined or invented holidays to coincide with pagan holidays. I guess this would mean the basis of all the christian churches would have to be questioned.
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Thats right, us catholics are better than everyone, you ALL suck! 
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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It really doesn't matter which denomination you belong to as long as you are a Christian is all that counts in that "religion" though I respect other religions. In other words, you can agree to disagree!
August Back to School & Training Camp!
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Wow. I made this point before and I do believe I was told I was wrong. This is how the church assimilated most of the European pagans. The combined or invented holidays to coincide with pagan holidays. I guess this would mean the basis of all the christian churches would have to be questioned.
You are absolutely correct!!!!!
I've been saying this for years.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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It really doesn't matter which denomination you belong to as long as you are a Christian is all that counts in that "religion" though I respect other religions. In other words, you can agree to disagree!
I guess I'm going to hell then!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Whatever the Pope says is true because God talks to him.
but....but...but.... the Pope is God's Representative on Earth... He is infallible.....
and he was duly elected by the College of Cardinals.... not appointed by God Himself....
See.... some of us fisheaters can laugh at the Pope, and ourselves....
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The church is nothing more than a business now. It's a joke. Having been born and raised (... brainwashed ...) in a Catholic upbringing, I cannot stand the church and how it is run now. Good example - my buddy is getting married next month. He lives in Parma, near St Anthony; however most of his family goes to St. Charles. St. Charles has NO problem accepting their money each week and the time they donate to it. So he assumes he can get married there, right? WRONG. He was told the church is not a wedding chapel and he must go to St Anthony. Stuff like that just reinforces why I have not gone to church in years and will not go anytime soon (outside of this upcoming marriage @ St Anthony). It's a complete joke and an embarrassment. Add in the fact that religions are based on stories written thousands of years ago and it's hard for any knowledgeable person to entertain these fantasies. 
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Add in the fact that religions are based on stories written thousands of years ago and it's hard for any knowledgeable person to entertain these fantasies.
I'd argue it's hard for any person knowledgeable NOT to entertain these "fantasies". Even if they haven't ended up believing in the end, I've rarely found an intelligent person that hasn't at least considering exploring western religion on the premise that there could be some validity to it.
On a side note... the article was about Benedict saying that the Catholic Church is the one true church because of apostolic succession. So far, in counter to the point, people have mentioned (for example):
- The Church overwriting pagan holidays to gain converts
- The switch of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday at some point in history
- The Church trying to gain money through various means
- The priest scandals
- The Crusades
- The Spanish Inquisition
- Historical church corruption
All of which have absolutely nothing to do with the original point from Benedict, which is that the lineage of bishops that can be traced back to Peter legitimizes the Catholic Church over others. It's been a predictable pattern that whenever the Catholic Church comes up in any thread, the issue at hand is completely ignored and Church bashing takes place. It's pretty sad when nearly every single problem the Church has had over 2000 years has been listed, yet not one single solid counter-argument to the topic has been. It appears it's easier to rip on the Church for past failings than address issues that are difficult to refute.
Benedict has been called an "idiot" and "ignorant " by people in this thread, despite the fact that he has been an expert theologian for over 50 years, a professor at a university level, has written multiple books, speaks multiple languages fluently and holds one of the most important positions in the world. If you're looking to find a man qualified to read ancient text, master it and interpret its meanings, I'd say he's a pretty good resource... and better than anyone here by a longshot.
That all said, I still don't know why he came out and said this (even though it's been a teaching for ages) because it just creates a further rift, but I respect his passion.
Truly though, it's a shame that this thread has so little substance and so much resentment.
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