DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Front Office, continued...

How many SB's did Archie Manning win?

You can make that excuse for almost any position.

No one knows exactly what the thinking was, I was hoping Pryor would get re-signed. I think, maybe, the Browns wanted to get a multi-year deal done, and move on, not revisit the same situation, with the same player, a year later. Perhaps Pryor had already burned a few bridges in his 2 years with the Browns, I don't know.

Based on playing WR for one year, he was given a fair offer, considering his age and experience. Yes .. I wish he would have been signed, but I think age, experience and greed all figured into what happened. To me, I was upset Pryor wasn't signed, but I was also upset that after Hue saving the guy's NFL career, by talking him into trying WR when he wanted to be a QB, Pryor turned up his nose at a more than fair offer and basicly told the people who put their jobs on the line for him to drop dead.

I did not like the greed shown by Pryor at Ohio State, and his lack of caring about what his actions caused there. He simply continued his lack of caring about the people who helped him into his pro career.

Be that as it may, I liked Pryor as a talented player, I wished to see him re-signed, but what his actions showed me the kind of person he was. He was the same selfish kid, who cost Jim Tressel his job at Ohio State. He is not worth talking about further....

JMHO

I'm not sure that Vers is right on the facts. The truth is we really don't know all the facts. And I'm sure 90% of what gets printed is either false or missing key pieces of information that would completely alter the context. I work in an industry that is in the paper all the time. Without exaggeration, 95% of it is inaccurate. I would assume a large percentage of most of what we read is that way.

But if we can agree on the points that the Browns offered Pryor a four year deal, Pryor turned it down, Pryor returned to the Browns and asked for a 1 year deal, and the Browns said no, I think we should also consider other factors that went into the Browns decision making. Vers said something to the fact that the "Browns blew him off". I think that's shortsighted.

Any negotiation has parameters. And it's the combination of the parameters that you are trying to get. Say you want to buy a car. The dealership offers you a price that you are willing to pay. But the financing is 2% higher than you thought you would get. You might want that car at 3.9% but not at 5.9%. Perhaps similar thinking was in play here by the Browns FO. Maybe they wanted Pryor on the long-term deal so he was vested in the team and they would have some semblance of continuity and stability at the position for the next several years. Pryor on a one year deal may not have been attractive to the Browns. Maybe they thought he would bolt after the season and leave them with another hole to fill. Maybe they thought Pryor's personality wouldn't mesh with the team on a one year deal. I think we have to consider what the FO could have been thinking about when it comes to this decision. It's not as black and white as "they blew him off".

You keep talking about truth, but until you interview both sides, you won't have it. Even then you might not have it. There is too much gray here.

And lastly, why should the Browns be held responsible and somehow viewed in a negative light because Pryor and his agents misjudged the market? There's an opportunity cost here that you aren't considering. Let's say the Browns did this to prove a point (which I don't believe is the case). They just sent a message to the team and the league that we are more than fair, but we won't be held hostage by players and agents either. Perhaps that caused the Browns to miss out on Pryor but will have other key FAs in the future thinking differently about what the Browns offer.

The Browns are trying to establish a culture here. One that permeates through the league. I'm sure other players took note of the Pryor situation. The Browns offered a 29 year old converted QB wide receiver a four year, $30 million deal. I think that is going to pay dividends in the future. It would be an interesting poll to see if players sided with the Browns or Pryor on this one.

As usual your talking out your ass ... i don't blame the FO ... not one little bit ...

I don't blame the FO or Pryor. I can see both sides of it.

JMHO, Pryor betting on himself WITH a proven QB, smart....AND Coach Sanders stated he'll be All Pro there...smart. FO- they must have had their reasons, we will NEVER know whole story....I agree Pryor's character history isn't the best, nor did his penalties, showboating, help last year. Look at the players we've drafted- Pryor didn't fit real well with the "new culture". JMHO.....GO Browns!!!!

simple why... he had no Competition to being the number one target for whoever is the browns QB. get enough balls thrown your way you get the stats.

I agree with the FO. Why sign him to a 8 mil, 1 year deal when you offer way more. It's like bidding
against yourself.

That makes no sense.


See ya TP.


Buit agai


The fact remains, we offered the largest contract and the most guranteed money. TP chose to take his services elsewhere for a 1 year deal.


I hope it works out for the kid. But for another team, I won't feel bad if he fails. It was his choice.

But again, this is rehash. What makes this current?

How about you keep my name out of your mouth?

Dozens and dozens of posters talk about how the Browns offered Pryor the best deal but he blew them off, yet you say nothing.

Take a freaking hike.

And what kills me is that I have never blamed the FO for not keeping Pryor. I have only tried to point out what has "reportedly" happened.

Of course, it's considered gospel if a reporter says the Browns offered the best deal out there. Then, if the same reporter says that Pryor came back to the Browns after receiving the one year offer from Washington, that is just a rumor.

tab, I already posted one such article and you said you didn't believe it, even though it contained a quote from Pryor.

There's nothing in that article about TP seeing if the Browns would match the Redskins offer. You tried to make it appear that you had proof....did you think no one would click on the link?

I have no clue where you keep getting this ridiculous idea that anyone here says "how freaking smart" our front office is. I've seen posters range all the way from "I love this pick/signing." to "That wasn't a good move, at all." But never have I seen what you claim.

Put the bottle down and slowly walk away.

Man, if that post set you off, you must be a real joy to be around.

You misconstrued what I was saying. Big time!

I simply relayed what was mentioned in articles and a quote by Pryor. People on here are all the time saying that the Browns offered Pryor the best deal, but you never challenge that. Instead, I use the same type of source and you act like I'm making stuff up.

It's lame.

I'm not disputing what we understand to be the general facts...Browns offered Pryor, Pryor tested the market, Pryor came back to the Browns and asked for another offer, and the Browns said no.

I'm disputing the notion that the Browns "blew him off" as you say...or pretty much anything that mac says. I'm sure a lot of thought and discussion went into it. The Browns have their reasons...reasons that we are not privy to.

I'm not necessarily defending the front office, but merely disputing mac's idiotic notion that the Browns are incompetent on this specific issue. Come on Vers, even you have to admit that mac's stance is at best extremely shortsighted and at worst barely logical.

Rish, it was a figure of speech. Pryor himself, said that the Browns were no longer interested in discussing a new contract when he came back.

Are you really going to go off if I said "blew him off?" Heck, I don't even remember saying that. I wasn't bad-mouthing the Browns. I am not bad-mouthing Pryor. I have simply stated that I wish the two sides could have worked out an agreement.

Forgive me, Judge.

Well, your reaction to my post was to tell me to take a hike. You could have just said what you just said to begin with.

I will state, and I think I speak for just about everyone here, that we all wish the two sides could have worked it out.

Take a hike.

LOL...Whether that was said with malice or in jest, that was pretty funny.

Jest. LOL

Browns analysis: Haslam preaching patience but no guarantees with this owner


ByScott Petrak | The Chronicle-Telegram
Published on Aug. 2, 2017 | Updated 4:41 a. m.
link

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam’s intentions are good. Promise patience, praise the front office and coach Hue Jackson, try to eliminate five months of questions about their job security.

While I appreciate Haslam’s availability Saturday at his annual training camp state-of-the-team news conference, drawing any conclusions is premature. There are no absolutes in July.

And there shouldn’t be.

So fans and media need to pump the brakes before saying the regime put in place following the 2015 season — head of football operations Sashi Brown, chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta, vice president of player personnel Andrew Berry — is guaranteed to return intact in 2018.

I know Haslam said Saturday: “We feel we have the right people in place.”

In early August 2015, he said: “I think we’ve got the right people in place. We’re not going to blow things up, OK?”

He was referring to general manager Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine. Both were fired the day the season ended.

Haslam has to believe he finally got it right this time. Or else he’d go insane.

But it’s simply too early to tell. And acting as if whatever happens this season couldn’t change his mind is naïve. He’s fired three coaches and three GMs since arriving in 2012, none making it to a third season.

Haslam says he’s learned his lesson, is more patient and has embraced the philosophy of building through the draft. That’s how it should be.

But none of the evidence — admittedly it’s early — shows the front office excels at talent evaluation. Brown and DePodesta had never been involved in the process prior to their new roles, and Berry took a big jump in responsibility.

Haslam’s professed confidence remains a leap of faith.

The new regime, with the input of Jackson and his staff, has selected 24 players in the last two drafts. Haslam can’t accurately say he knows he has the right guys when the bushel of picks has yielded so little.

None of the 14 picks in 2016 looked like a star as a rookie. First-round receiver Corey Coleman showed glimpses but had a disappointing season. Second-round end Emmanuel Ogbah was solid, but 5.5 sacks isn’t all-rookie-team material.

This season will be critical for the top two picks and many others. Tight end Seth DeValve, tackle Shon Coleman and safety Derrick Kindred are in line for starting roles after doing little as rookies. If they flop, the doubts about the analytics-driven front office will double.

That’s why this season should be vital to the fate of Brown and Co. After two years, we should have a good feel for the future of the 2016 class. And have valuable information about the rookie class.

Haslam was asked if he needed to see a big performance from the two draft classes to be sure the front office knows what it’s doing.

“It’s tough for rookies to come in and really tear it up,” he said. “You can go back and look. There are a few exceptions. The Cowboys had a couple last year, but for the most part it takes a guy into his second or third year.

“Don’t get me wrong. I hope they tear it up the first game against the Steelers, but it’s not the end of the western world if they don’t. I think we’re going to give them some time. By their second or third year if they’re not producing, then I think you’re going to be concerned, but I think you have to be realistic. The adjustment between college football, particularly the way it’s played now, and pro football is dramatic.”

So Haslam is willing to wait until after 2018 to evaluate the drafting skills of Brown and Co.?

“That’s where the patience comes in,” he said.

Brown and DePodesta have sold Haslam on their long-range plan and their ability to execute it. But I’m not buying his newfound patience can survive a 3-13 season on the heels of a franchise-worst 1-15.

Brown has done a masterful job accumulating draft picks. The Browns have two first-rounders in 2018 and three second-rounders. If I were Haslam, I would need to see significant production from the last two draft classes before I let Brown lead another draft, especially with so many high picks.

Continuity is important, but Haslam can’t afford to waste another draft hoping “the right guys” draft the right players. Especially if they’ve been unable to identify a franchise quarterback.

Haslam was forthright when he said the expectation for the rebuild is a “substantial” jump in 2018 or ‘19. That can only happen with a legitimate quarterback in place and tremendous contributions from the recent drafts.

He must wait to see if his faith will be rewarded.

We must wait to see if he sticks to his plan of patience.

It’s far from guaranteed.

Contact Scott Petrak at 329-7253 or spetrak@chroniclet.com. Like him on Facebook and follow him @scottpetrak on Twitter.

What bugs me is the lack of loyalty. Hue and the Browns gave TP a chance to play and learn in the NFL. They then offered to pay him enough money to be able to retire and be set for life. He turns around and bites the hand that feeds him bro. I believe folks should be loyal. Life is not all about money.

So you think no other team would have given him a shot at wr? ... please GM, your smarter than that ... he may have PICKED us because of his relationship with Hue ... i have no clue why he ended up with us but lets not act like we were the only one that would have given him a shot ...

I'm with u on the loyalty thing at least as far as being loyal ... but heres the thing ... if what i remember is true ... we offered him basically the same contract we gave Britt, witch was 8 mill a year over 4 years ... TP wanted around 14 million a year ... if it was say a half million or a million dollar difference per year then i agree that loyalty may play a part ... but for 6 mill a year ... *LOL* ... no ones that loyal ...

And bro ... he already has made a nice chunk of change and is going to make 8 mill this year ... if that don't set him up for life and allowed him to retire then i highly doubt 32 mill would have ... all it would have done is theoretically taken him longer to pee through ... *L* ...

Pryor Was claimed off waivers from the Bengals on June 22 2015. He made the Browns 53 man roster to start the season, but was waived on Sept 10th of 2015 by the Browns. No other team claimed him on waivers NONE.... nobody wanted him. No waiver claims and nobody even tried to sign him as a free agent. The Browns re-signed him on December 2nd 2015 so your comment that



is all wrong. No other team DID give him a shot, and they all had time to sign him and give him a shot. He didn't pick us we picked him. We gave him his shot. So you see I am smarter than your average bear ay BooBoo.



I am that loyal. Also your forgetting NOBODY offered him 14 million a year. That was a number floating around between his own greedy ears.



8 Million after taxes and paying his agent would leave approx 4 million. 4 million for a 30 year old is not set for life IMO but 16 million sure is.

Yes Yogi u are smarter than the average bear ... i said that all ready Yogi ...

When we cut him on 9/10/16 was he a QB or WR at that time? .... when he cleared waivers and no one signed him was his position QB or WR? ...

And what changed with us between those two dates that made us want him back ... could it have been that TP realized he had two choices ... to become a WR or never play in the NFL again? ... if so, then I'm sure other teams would have given him a shot ... theres ALOT of teams that need help at the WR position ... WE STILL DO ... *L* ...



I'm not actually BooBoo u know ... *L* .... i didn't forget ... if someone did offer him 14 mill a year he'd of signed that and we'd be having a different discussion ... well maybe not cause u think a 6 mill difference PER YEAR is not enough to sway your loyalty .... I'd love to put that one to the test Yogi ... *L* ....

That 14 mill floating around between his ears was HIGHLY UNREALISTIC ... the contract he signed is PROOF of that .... and that 14 mill he thinks he's worth is the reason he GAMBLED on himself ....



WOW ... so many different ways to attack that one ... first off he needs a new accountant if hes paying that much in taxes ... and while he's at it a new investment advisor .... *LOL* ... second I guess we've upgraded whats in our picnic baskets ... Boo Boo wants some lobster Yogi, please pass it over while i finish the Ruth Chris steak ....

Just curious .. was all 32 mill gauranteed? ... not that it really matters ... if 4 million is not set for life ... if he can't "live" on that .... like i said earlier ... it'll just take him longer to pee through the 16 million ...

Plus we haven't talked about WHAT HE'S ALL READY MADE .... he's been in the league how many years and even at the vet minimum thats got to be at least 2.5 or 3 mill ...

ANYONE ELSE"S PAGES GETTING HIJACKED BY THE VIDEO ADS?

As for TP and loyalty.

There is not a lot of loyalty in the NFL. It's a business and the players get the worst of it. Name me a player who was kept on by their team without a contract restructure for loyalty ??? I can't think of one.

I don't blame TP for going for max money.

However with that said - based on the offer he turned down from the Browns, and his age .... he is really unlikely to earn more. He is going to have to play like a top 5 WR this year AND get a contract at 29 years old, that rivals top WR's who are much younger.

Simply put I think TP made a huge mistake.

I also can't believe that the same basic conversation has been going on for months. . . We've done it to death and if ANYONE has come up with a new angle that hasn't already been discussed multiple times I have not seen it.

Diam and GM,

If memory serves me right, when we got him off waivers, he was coming from the Bengals as a QB. Up until that point, he was determined to be a QB. When he got here with us, he started the transition to WR (started being the key word). He didn't really get to show anything, and we cut him.

Nobody claimed him because he was starting the transition to WR, and nobody had seen anything from him at WR (or QB, for that matter) warrant going out and grabbing him.


I just wanted to add a little more context and clarity. The argument can certainly be made that this is all irrelevant.

Thanks oooob ... u and Yogi both remember this better than I ...

It is irrelevant at this point ... just like the numbers GM and I are throwing around ... i looked up there contracts ...

TP is gauranteed 6 mill this year with 2 mill in incentives ... who knows how reachable they are ..

Britt got 10.5 mill this year ... 6.5 signing bonus and 4 mill in salary .... thats all the gauranteed money in his contract ... we can cut him before the 3rd league day of 18 and not owe him a penny .... 1/4th of his signing bonus would be his cap hit if we did that ..

I still don't understand the bitterness towards TP ... but in the grand scheme of things ... its a nothing ... ...

BooBoo thinks TP may be back here next year ... we shall see ...

He was a WR from the moment the Browns signed him the first time in June of 2015.



He was cut after the roster was set to make room for RB Robert Turbin when we traded for him. He was resigned when Josh Mccown was placed on the IR and we had a roster spot.He had realized he had two choices way back when the Bengals cut him.



OK buddy offer me 32 million for 4 years and see how quick I snatch the pen from your hand and sign it

Now as for the contract he signed with Washington vs the one in Cleveland he got a 1 year 6 million gaurenteed contract in Washington. to get his other 2 million this year he needs to have at least 80 catches, for at least 1,250 yards, and at least ten TD's. As for the Browns offer. I have heard the final offer was more than we paid Britt. It was for 34 million over 4 years with 18 million gaurenteed.

My problem with this is that you don't seem to expect the same loyalty from FO's and owners as you do the players. Life is a two way street.

But Yogi, life's not all about money ... ...

I don't agree with U and i still don't understand ... but thats OK .. keep the goodies coming and BooBoo will be fine ...

Different take on the whole Pryor thing for consideration....

Anyone ever figure that the Browns FO simply has no interest in a one-year rental? I mean...let's be real...if Pryor is on this team as well, we're not suddenly contenders or Super Bowl favorites. We're in a building process. So is it better to have a WR that you're going to have to bid through the roof for the following year OR is it better to build up the guys you have under contract? Having already signed Britt, if we had brought back TP, what kind of time would Louis or Higgins have? Jack.

I was disappointed when we were unable to keep Pryor but I can see a certain rationale to it- especially after we deployed Plan B in signing Britt. At the end of the day, Pryor didn't want to be here enough to accept a good offer from the Browns so I cease to worry about him. Let's build the guys we have and not worry about a 1 year mercenary.

I believe this is a very shortsighted and jaded view.
You had me with you right up until this point. lol

Pryor believes that with one more season at WR, his value will be much higher than what the Browns offered over the long haul. He's simply gambling on himself with a team that has a good QB, just lost their best two WR's and gives him the best opportunity to shine.

Some people value a good employment opportunity and some people call that being a mercenary.

OK ok....admittedly, that was a little of my sour grapes shining through...

When I take off the fan glasses, both sides made business decisions that they felt was in their best interests. Browns moved on and TP is betting he can put out a great season and boost his payday in 2018 - which, realistically, he probably will.

.