One of these days somebody is going to listen to me and start using TWO good RB's at the same time again. AKA Byner/Mack. Two guys who can run/ catch/ and block.
Come on Hue let me make you look good
Of course, but (and correct me if i'm wrong, I never actually saw them play) wasn't Mack an exceptionally good run blocker? Like a FB type?
It's tough to have Crow and Duke on the field if they can't run block for eachother.
Both are decent pass blockers, but have either ever been asked to really run block? That's a big factor IMO
I'd say he will take less punishment there than as a running back.
I absolutely agree. My question would be, has he been going up against linebackers or true corners when he's lined up outta the backfield, because usually if my memory recalls - it's been a motion from the backfield.
If so, how does he do going up against slot corners?
One of these days somebody is going to listen to me and start using TWO good RB's at the same time again. AKA Byner/Mack. Two guys who can run/ catch/ and block.
Come on Hue let me make you look good
I'm all for it. However, I wouldn't just place Duke out in slot. I'd motion him there out of the backfield. That to me would shake things up even more as the defense would have to try and adjust last minute.
I'd say he will take less punishment there than as a running back.
It's a different kind of hit, catching the ball with your back to the defender vs running with the ball where you can see what is coming at you.
As a receiver, your vision and brain are focused on the football and looking the ball into your hands to insure you catch the pass...as you catch the pass, simultaneously a DB, S or LB is looking to take your head off, hoping to jar the ball from your hands with the hardest hit they can deliver.
When you are a RB and see the hit coming you load up your muscles (tense up) to absorb the hit and deliver your own hit in return. For me, the ability to deliver a harder blow than I received usually resulted in a collision where I didn't even feel the hit.
The worst hits I ever received on a football field were the hits I never saw coming or expected. Some of the most serious injuries in the NFL, especially concussions, happen due to the collision between CB, S and Receivers.
Duke has experience catching the ball but his size concerns me. Not sure what Duke's injury history is college and NFL. I remember muscle pulls and a concussion as a rookie.
I looked up the concussion rate in the NFL by position and it listed 1.CBs (22) 2.Ss(20)3. Receivers(19)...back in 2014. I didn't find anything more recent. But if you click the link it talks about the difficulties getting accurate reporting. Also, it lists every position..I was surprised where QB was listed.
Both can run. Both can catch the ball (Duke is much better at that) and both can block. So yes I would say we are there. Now can Duke hold up and take the pounding of playing so much???? I don't know.
If it was great scheme, having two running backs...don't you think somebody would have done it already...two backs doesn't work anymore- to many fast, agile, big LB types...D's would load the box....obviously, JMHO....GO Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
I attempted to explain to you the difference in the type of hits a slot receiver can be subjected to vs a RB.. ...a slot receiver who many times sits down in LB territory, with his back to defenders, waiting to catch the football with his attention on the ball and not able to see those about to hit them. ..put another way, at times the slot receiver is a "sitting duck".
...a rb does not have to focus on the ball and for the most part is facing those attempting to tackle them..thus they can prepare for the hit and in some cases, deliver their own hit.
mac, I can understand the concussion thing. However, there is no way that in the world that WRs take "more punishment" than RBs.
You have to be tough as nails to play RB because you are going to get pounded on a regular basis. WRs do take big shots on occasion, thus the issue w/concussions. However, there is no way that they take the punishment that a RB has to endure. Not even close.
Did you click the link and see which positions suffered the most concussions?
I know you know the difference between a blind side hit and the type of hits a RB takes running.
The issue is not about which player is "tougher"...
The issue is about which position suffers the most serious injuries...and this case, the evidence supports the fact that WRs suffer more concussions than RBs.
No doubt a RB has to be tough...that is not the issue I'm discussing.
there's no doubt we have to keep our best playmakers on the field ... which raises an interesting question ... who are the top 3 offensive playmakers on the roster?
I'd say: Crowell, Duke, and .... ?? I can't even name a definitive 3rd
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Did you click the link and see which positions suffered the most concussions?
I know you know the difference between a blind side hit and the type of hits a RB takes running.
The issue is not about which player is "tougher"...
The issue is about which position suffers the most serious injuries...and this case, the evidence supports the fact that WRs suffer more concussions than RBs.
No doubt a RB has to be tough...that is not the issue I'm discussing.
Then why do running backs have shorter NFL careers than wr's?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
mac, what in the hell are you talking about? I already said acknowledged the concussion thing. I do understand that WRs can take big hits. Those hits can lead to concussions.
However, a RB takes way, way more hits than a WR does over the course of a season. It ain't close.
I think it is you who isn't understanding peen's point.
Duke reminds me of Greg Pruitt catching passes out of the backfield ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
There is a ton of information contained in their study covering 15 yrs and one area that might apply to our conversation is listed in Figure 12. Injury Risk by Position, 2000 to 2014. They brokedown the player's injury risk into 3 categories... ...On injury report ...1 week or more missed ...4 weeks or more missed
The Outsider's graph (Fig.12) shows that RBs, TEs and WRs were very similar in injury risk, with the WR position having a slightly higher risk of injury than RB in two of the three catagories, during the 15 yr study.
Figure 2. Number of NFL Regular Season Weeks Missed and Average Severity by Injury Type, 2000-2014..further breaks down injuries into catagories.. ...Weeks missed ...Severity (avg. Weeks Missed/Injury)
The most injuries were to the knee with the most severe injury being the knee ACL injuries.
Figure 13 - RB. Top injuries for RBs, 2000-2014 Broken down into 2 categories.. ...Weeks Missed ...Severity (avg. Weeks Missed/Injury)
Knee injuries were the #1 injury suffered by RBs with knee ACL being the most severe injury. *Very interesting information..Head injuries-concussions were not even listed among the top 15 injuries recorded in the study for RBs.
Figure 13 - WR/TE. Top Injuries for WRs and TEs, 2000-2014 Broken down into 2 categories.. ...Weeks Missed ...Severity (avg. Weeks Missed/Injury)
Knee injury-ACL was the #1 injury as well as the most severe injury. *Concussion was the #8 injury, in terms of weeks missed, listed in Figure 13-WR/TE
This information kind of backs up the idea that moving Duke to slot receiver might not be a move that prolongs his career.
1. mac...don't mean to pile on. But what does concussion's have to do with the overall physical abuse a position is defined with.
2. The concussion is high (back in 2014) as their body is vulnerable to a hit.
3. If you can recollect the NFL has put in rules the last couple of years eliminating those hits especially above the shoulders...neck and head area.
4. Its a visual fact that RBs get hit much more and sustain a physical beating compared to a slot WR.
So the premise that you think being a slot WR is much more rigorous than playing RB falls on deaf ears. I know you found a fact and have painted this as a smoking gun in your mind but face it. It just ain't so.
Of course you will continue this thought process and claim over and over again that you are correct because of this one fact you have found. A correct FACT does not mean you hypothesis is correct.
Had my say now you go tell me about the study again and how I don't understand...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
+1, Agree 100%, rule changes have/will protect players...we old timers can remember Y.A. Tittle sitting on his butt, blood running from everywhere it seemed..had been creamed- I'm glad they've changed the game protecting all players.
JMHO, Duke could be a force at slot, he's quick, and bigger than many slots...whatever works for MORE wins...GO Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
Well mac, I played RB and I coached for years. There is no comparison to the amount of hits that RB takes over the course of a season compared to a WR.
You keep reaching for something that isn't there, though.
I played RB and WR and a QB can hang a RB out on a pass the very same way it happens to a WR and it probably happens to the RB more often because of the routes that you run. The short and mid middle and the flats are usually where you get laid out to dry.
Browns may make Duke Johnson their No. 1 slot receiver
Michael David Smith July 24, 2017 PFT
Cleveland’s Duke Johnson is a running back, but he’s had more receiving yards than rushing yards in each of his first two NFL seasons. In his third season, he may not be a running back at all.
Johnson is the leading candidate to be the Browns’ No. 1 slot receiver, according to Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com.
Last year Andrew Hawkins was the No. 1 slot receiver in Cleveland, but he left for New England in free agency.
As one of the few bright spots in Cleveland’s offense last season, Johnson caught 53 passes for 514 yards and ran 73 times for 358 yards.
While I may not be One HUNDRED percent nannerdance on this, I do kind of have a good feeling about it.
Does this help them beat Pittsburgh? I think it might, I think it is a step in the right direction.
It IS something NEW, and we know the past hasn't been going so well, so at the very least I want to see this play out before condemning the idea.
I've been an advocate to get Crowell and Duke on the field at the same time, to make it tougher on defenses.
Before this , there was the immenent question, Who is the #3 Runningback, There are about 4 unhearalded hopefuls to fill that role, but who's going to make it.
But IF Duke moves over to Slot, even 50% of the time, then maybe they like another RB, better than keeping a WR.
but it still begs the Question, Who is the #3 Runningback, and if so, Who is the #4 that backs them both up?
Crowell cannot take all the snaps, and now that next guy behind Him and Duke is going to be counted on for a bigger role.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
there's no doubt we have to keep our best playmakers on the field ... which raises an interesting question ... who are the top 3 offensive playmakers on the roster?
I'd say: Crowell, Duke, and .... ?? I can't even name a definitive 3rd
It used to be Barnidge. The new guys are Question Marks, All the Question Marks can't go Bad.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
Dayes will likely be the #3 back. Kid can ball and could see action as the 3rd down back quickly especially if Duke is going to the slot often. I believe we will see Duke playing a lot more this year and Crow becoming more of a feature back.
They did cut George Adkinson and signed Brandon Wilds. Wilds played at South Carolina. I remember him as a pretty good back. Seemed more of a straight ahead runner. Not one to change lanes much, but had good pop behind the pads.
Can't say I remember much about his ability to catch the ball.
I think the Browns like Vitale as a FB. He has shown good hands and the ability to block in both running and passing situations.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Browns coach Hue Jackson said he wants to use Duke Johnson as much as possible this season.
"He is just doing everything, honestly," Jackson said when asked if Johnson was spending more time with the receivers. "He can catch out of the backfield. ... We line him up in different places where we can get an advantage with him. He is a weapon for us. We are just trying to use him as much as we can, and we do." An impressive runner in college, Johnson has been primarily a pass catcher in the NFL, averaging 57 receptions through two seasons. With Isaiah Crowell locked in on early downs, that will remain Johnson's role for 2017. His over/under for receptions should be set at 60.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
