DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Training Camp Stuff 2017

Yeah, I mentioned in an earlier post that I would like for the reporters to talk more about how long the qb was holding the ball, accuracy, distance of throws, going through progressions, etc rather than just putting up completions and attempts.

Most people don't want to hear that stuff. They just want to know how many TD's they threw. Fantasy football doesn't have a scoring stat for releasing the ball on time.

Everyday theres a common theme in CK's reports .. he held the ball and was sacked .. i believe it was 2or 3 yesterday and 5 ther day before ...

I'm guessing thats what there talking about with his struggles ... and yesterday was the first really good day he's had with the accuracy ... all the other days they've all been fairly non descriptive ...

If I had to guess, Kessler starts the season, and if h gets hurt, struggles, or he offense struggles, we'll see Kizer around the bye week.

I've read a report on another board stating that CK was struggling with the wind the other day noticeably more than BO or DK. That same report stated that BO has looked the most like a starter...while BO has reportedly worked only with the 2's.

Who knows?

I don't think reporters either understand what to look for (to Vers' point), aren't willing to put in the effort (I guess to my point), or - as Penn stated above - they know the football "nerd stuff (that we want to read) doesn't generate the clicks as does the fluff and hype.

I believe its just a matter of time before kizer is taking 100% of the 1st team reps and the majority of 2nd team reps.

Cody's lack of incompletions is majorly negated by holding onto the ball and taking sacks or hits. A ball bouncing off the turf is a hell of a lot better than a 10 yard loss and possible fumble. you can be a small ball QB and be tremendously successful in this league but the ball has to come out quickly.

After 1st preseason game we have almost 2 weeks before the 2nd. then it gets crazy as we only have like 5 days between the rest. So Play Kizer in first preseason game then you make him the starter for the 2nd and u get 2 weeks of cramming info into the rookie before his start.

Just give him the Flacco and big ben Treatment.

Agreed. He's the only guy who COULD be the future here ... worst case scenario? We lose, he stinks, we draft a QB in the top of the 1st

Unfortunately i believe your right ... all the signs point to that ... and thats a shame ... were going to rush the kid out there cause we have no one else ...

If he doesn't start by day 1 ... he will take over before or at the bye ... and its a real shame ...

Good Luck DeShone ... i hope you can handle it mentally ... and hopefully Hue learned last year not to throw the rookie under the bus ....

Thats not the worse case scenario ... your being very short sighted .... theres this one ...

He starts and lights it up this year ... so we don't adress the qb situation this off season and he turns into RG3 or Kap ...

Or this one ...

He starts ... plays like a rookie ... we spend a bunch of picks to move up and get who we want ... they start for the next few years playing average ball .. Kizer sits and then leaves via FA ... then goes on to a HOF career while we continue to get average play ...

Or this one ...

He lights it up in weeks 1 and 2 ... then suffers a season ending injury .... then what????? ...

The kid needs to play when HE'S READY ... not when we need him to be ready ... subtle but huge difference ...

Last year we stunk, so BO could be our future.

*L* ... cute ...

Never have a players initials been more reflective than his when it comes to his play at the qb position over the last two years ...

5 players who have shined at #BrownsCamp so far


Patrick Maks
Staff Writer
Twitter


Some expected, unexpected names make the list

After five straight days of practice, the Browns got a day off Tuesday as they continue through the grind of training camp.
As such, what better time to look at five players — some expected, some unexpected — who have shined in their own ways before camp resumes Wednesday morning.

DL MYLES GARRETT
This probably shouldn’t come as a surprise, but it’s worth noting how Garrett, the rookie defensive end and No. 1 overall pick in the NFL Draft, has started to “flash” in the past few days. For example, Garrett had at least one sack — and two more would-be sacks — during a scoring zone drill on Monday.

“He’s turned it up a little bit. He’s in much better shape,” coach Hue Jackson said, referencing Garrett’s recovery from a foot injury in offseason workouts. “He understands what we’re expecting of him to do and he’s doing it, so that’s what you’re seeing. You are seeing a young player that is starting to get better and better and better within our scheme.”
Garrett, who totaled 31 sacks in three seasons at Texas A&M, is expected to play a significant role this fall.

DL TREVON COLEY
If it weren’t for veteran defensive lineman Danny Shelton, we might not have known much about Coley, an undrafted free agent whom the Browns signed to their practice squad in December.
That’s exactly what happened this past weekend when Shelton singled out Coley — who took first-team reps Monday — while going through a list of young players who have impressed him thus far.

“The way we kind of do it on defense is you earn your keep. He’s playing well,” Jackson said. “We will keep giving guys opportunities. If you demonstrate on our football team that you have the skill and you can help us win, we are going to give you an opportunity to be out there.”
Coley was a team captain at FAU who made the switch from linebacker to defensive line before the 2016 Combine. He totaled 118 tackles in his final two seasons with the Owls and had 12.5 sacks and 21 tackles for loss in four seasons.


View Gallery | 33 Photos
Photos: 2017 Training Camp - Day 5

DL DANNY SHELTON
Speaking of Shelton, we expected the third-year player and 2015 first-round pick to build upon on a breakout campaign in 2016. What we didn’t expect, however, was Shelton’s admission that he got “complacent” last season despite emerging as one of the league’s top interior linemen.

“I just didn't have that same dominating mindset I had at the beginning of the season,” Shelton said Saturday.
So far, it’s clear he's thriving under new defensive coordinator Gregg Williams both on and off the field.

“Danny has proven that he’s becoming a leader for our group. He’s becoming a leader for us. He has a lot of fire in him, and I love that about him,” defensive line coach Clyde Simmons said Sunday. “He’s getting a grasp on what we want in our system. He has been in a system where he was asked to be on a two-gap [assignment] and all of that stuff. We are more of an attacking-style defense. It is an adjustment for him, but he is getting better at it every day.”

TE SETH DEVALVE
No Browns player had a better touchdown-to-catch ratio than DeValve did last season. The second-year tight end from Princeton caught 10 passes — two of which went for touchdowns — as a rookie in 2016. Entering Year 2, DeValve — who was slowed by a hamstring injury this time last year — is proving why some have pegged him to take on a big role in the offense alongside rookie/first-round pick David Njoku.

“I said this at OTAs – he’s an emerging player. I really liked Seth coming out (of college),” Jackson said.

“Last year, I think he would be the first to tell you with all of the injuries and the newness of the National Football League that it was tough. He hung in there and toward the end of the year, played some football and was really hungry to get better and come out his second year and make an impact. He is doing that. He is stronger. He is bigger. He works hard. He studies hard. He wants to make a contribution to our football team.”

RB MATT DAYES
The second-to-last pick in the Draft, Dayes spoke about using that status as something of a chip on his shoulder. He’s backed that up in camp, running hard and catching Jackson’s attention in the process.

“I like that!” Jackson said Sunday. “He has a chip on his shoulder. I don’t [feed into that], I think the kid does. I think he’s disappointed in that way that he didn’t get picked earlier, but he’s demonstrating out here on the field the talent that he has. He has had a great camp so far.”

Dayes — who is battling for a roster spot in a room that already includes starters Isaiah Crowell and Duke Johnson Jr. — was a four-year player at N.C. State, totaling 2,856 rushing yards and 34 touchdowns. He had his most productive season in 2016, running for 1,166 yards and 10 touchdowns while catching 32 passes for 267 yards. clevelandbrowns.com

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I really was hoping to hear the name desmond Bryant mentioned in some of these reports but I don't know if I have heard him mentioned at all.

Literally never heard of Coley ... we need guys to come out of nowhere to help quicken our rebuild. Guys like BBC, Nacua, etc.

Or they are just lazy because the fluff and hype stuff doesn't require then to expend much energy. The "nerd stuff" we care about takes some effort.

I think that is part of it. I also think most of them never played the game and have no idea about the intricacies of the game.

Are you trying to tell me this guy..



...never played football?!?

I think it's more about stats not telling the whole story. It is true Kessler is throwing the ball at a higher percentage but the sacks he has taken aren't included in the stats. I believe on just one drive he took sacks on three consecutive plays. It was implied (if not outright said) that he was holding the ball too long. I also know drops have been an issue, I just don't know how many Kizer and Brock have had compared to CK.

Just to add a point here .....

Kizer has not played against a real NFL defense yet, one that actually plans to play against him. He hasn't even played against a preseason game defense yet.

Hue has a pretty complicated offense, so we'll see how far along Kizer is when the simplified preseason bullets start flying.

Good point Ytown.

Browns' Jamie Collins tells his story: The one behind the smile that you'll never understand


By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
BEREA, Ohio -- Browns linebacker Jamie Collins pulls down the neckline of his hoodie to reveal a tattoo of a tombstone on the left side of his chest, right over his heart, that says "RIP Carolyn."

Then he pulls down the right side of the hoodie to reveal a matching tombstone tattoo on the right side that reads, "RIP Fred."

Fred and Carolyn were his parents, and they both died by the time Collins was 6 years old in tiny McCall Creek, Miss.

"Heart problems,'' said Collins.

Then, he thrusts out his right forearm to reveal another tattoo, this one a tribute to his older brother Frederick, who died at the age of 23 when Collins was in high school.

"When life hits you, it hits,'' he said.

These days, Collins is all smiles as he runs around Browns training camp, trying to set a championship tone. But, as he once posted on Instagram, "behind my smile is a story you'll never understand.''

It's a story Collins has never really told, not even to some of his best friends.

But on a sunny morning in Berea, he felt like it was time.

"It's a new day,'' he said.

Matters of the heart

Like his parents, young Frederick died of a heart defect.

"He lived in Las Vegas, so he was out there playing basketball and collapsed,'' said Collins.

Browns' Jamie Collins reflects on losing his parents as a youth
The loss of Frederick, who was Collins' best friend, hit him like one of those 18-wheelers his father used to drive.

"He was my closest brother,'' said Collins. "He was the one that really made me.''

Heart disease, as it turns out, runs in Collins' family, and even he's been touched by it. One exam revealed what he described as "an oversized artery,'' but he's checked out regularly and has no restrictions on the football field.

"It's scary, but at the end of the day, you've got to go out and do what you've got to do,'' said Collins, 26. "For the most part, thank God, I'm blessed. I don't have any problems right now. The heart's looking good.''

Collins is the youngest of five boys and one girl, Lisa, the oldest. When their parents died, Lisa, in her early 20s at the time, raised her five brothers: Donnie, Darryl, Phillip, Frederick and Jamie.

"That's why I take care of her,'' said Collins. "I was in and out, but at the end of the day, she was the one. My very first paycheck, I bought her and her husband a house. I look at them as my parents."

Collins recalls that Lisa "dropped out of school. We all did (for a while). But like I said, we all have something.''

How did a young girl keep five strapping boys in line?


"She's one tough cookie,'' he said. "And she's not small either.''

How did she manage to make ends meet and put food on the table for four huge boys?

"You never know until the situation approaches, but she so happened to come up with things to get us fed, clothes on our back and stuff like that,'' he said. "We grinded through it. We made do.''

The Collins boys made a competition out of everything, and they often beat up on their baby brother.

"That's just what happens when you're the little brother, but it's good,'' he said. "That's what makes you the man you are.''

Country strong

With Collins' bulging biceps and massive chest, it's hard to imagine him small, but "I just got big,'' he said. "I've always been this little runt, the smallest in the family. In high school, I was 185, but skinny.''

His brothers "helped me aggressively just muscle everyone. It's just knowing you can big-boy everybody. No matter what size you are, you have to get it done.''

The boys raced each other everywhere and tossed the football around "in the backyard, the bushes, the road, wherever. Where I'm from is real small. It's the country.''

Collins grew up fishing, hunting, bailing hay and logging with his uncles. The activities made him "country strong,'' the kind you know when it hits you. After a while, however, he bagged the hunting.


"A bear might run up on you,'' he said. "I never (had a close) encounter with a bear, but if I saw something like Bigfoot, I don't know what I might do.''

As time went on, the boys scattered. One was in the military in Arizona, another in school in Louisiana.

"They were all over the place,'' he said.

It gave Fred time to teach Collins everything he knew, including how to tumble. In one Instagram video, Collins strings together seven back handsprings followed by a back tuck.


"We were the only ones left in the house and we were always together,'' said Collins. "It was tough when he passed. I had to do this on my own.''

With no big brothers to turn to, Collins picked up tips on life -- and manhood -- wherever he could.

"If I saw you and your son just talking somewhere in a grocery store, I'm listening,'' he said. "I'm trying to pick on any little thing. So that was just me. I would just sit back and evaluate, look, listen. I wasn't eavesdropping but I was just learning, because that's what I had to do.''

A legend is born

Home base was at Lisa's house in Quentin, but Collins alternated between there and nearby McCall Creek.

"Sometimes I'd go stay with my auntie or my other auntie or my uncle, or I'd go stay with a cousin for a while,'' he said. "That's how it was. That's life. You've got to do what you've got to do to survive.''

Sports were Collins' refuge, and he excelled at Franklin County High in Meadville. He led the Bulldogs to their first-ever state championship as a sophomore quarterback -- but also played safety, linebacker, receiver and punter. He intercepted three passes in one game as a substitute safety, and as legend has it, he dunked 10 times in a basketball game. He was also a state champ in the shot put and discus.

"He was by far the best athlete out there, no matter what sport,'' said Alex Smith, one of his best friends since middle school and a teammate both in high school and at Southern Miss. "Wherever we needed a play on the football field, we put Jamie at that position to make it.''

Smith recalled the time when he had just given up a touchdown late in the semifinal game, and was on the sidelines crying.

"I thought I just cost us the game,'' he said.

Instead, he heard the crowd cheering wildly and looked up to watch Collins scrambling upfield and plowing through a safety at the goal-line for the 50-yard game-winning TD.


"A legend was born,'' said Smith.

They went on to deliver the first championship to Meadville that year, and returned to the title game the following season but lost.

Listen to Jamie Collins in his own words: His interview with Mary Kay Cabot.


Behind closed doors

Despite being among Collins' four best friends, Smith didn't know for more than two years that both of Collins' parents had passed.

"I never really touched that subject with him,'' said Smith. "There are certain things he just never brought up. He's a very, very private person.''

Smith was amazed that Collins was able to achieve so much. "A lot of times when things like that happen, kids go down the wrong path,'' said Smith. "But he was never in any trouble.''

Even when Frederick died when they were in high school, Smith doesn't recall Collins ever shedding a tear.

"Behind closed doors I'm sure he was struggling with it, but in public, you'd never know anything was bothering him,'' said Smith.

When Collins and Smith went off to Southern Miss and roomed together for the first two years, Collins remained a freak athlete on the field, first as a safety and then as a linebacker. Off the field, he remained elusive. He shied away from the spotlight and avoided interviews.


"If you're not in his close inner circle, you're not going to know what's going on or how he's feeling,'' said Smith.

The Patriot Way

Collins went on to star for the Patriots after they drafted him in the second round (No. 52) in 2013, leading the team with eight tackles in their Super Bowl victory over the Seahawks after the 2014 season. He went to the White House and shook hands with President Barack Obama.

The next year, he wreaked havoc on the NFL with 89 tackles, a career-high 5.5 sacks and five forced fumbles to earn Pro Bowl honors. He also leaped over the line of scrimmage to block an extra point, showing off those old acrobatic skills that Fred taught him.

But none of that stopped Bill Belichick from trading him midway through last season to the Browns for a third-round compensatory pick. The trade jolted not only Collins but the the entire NFL.

"You can say hurt feelings, but this a pro game and I can't control anything like that,'' he said. "If the guys upstairs feel it's time for me to go, then it's time for me to go no matter what.''

The rap against Collins is that he freelanced and didn't play within Belichick's scheme.

"I let them say what they want to say, because at the end of the day, no one really knows what went on unless you're there,'' he said. "That's not my worry. I'm not competing against outsiders.''


Despite the trade -- and having to watch the Patriots go on to win another Super Bowl without him -- Collins harbors no ill will toward Belichick.

"I love Bill,'' said Collins. "He's a great coach. Smart, everything. We know that he's consistently winning, so there's nothing you can say about Bill Belichick.''

Collins made fast friends with teammates such as linebacker Christian Kirksey, and immediately noticed a family atmosphere that was different from the one he left.

"Despite the record, everybody's smiling, and I just felt that,'' he said. "Nobody's head was down. I went 0-12 my senior year in college and I saw a lot of guys pouting. But when I came here, you'd think we were undefeated.''

In the offseason, Collins signed a four-year extension worth $50 million. Collins is so rejuvenated under defensive coordinator Gregg Williams that he has begged to play free safety.

"It was just a joke, but (if I could), I'd definitely be back there at free,'' he said. "Whatever coach wants me to do, I won't back down. He's brought a great sense of urgency.''

Collins also showed off that old high school QB arm in minicamp by firing the ball into a small mesh pocket in a skills competition after practice -- the only player to do so.


"I love playing quarterback,'' he said. "I love to have the ball in my hands. That's the reason I always go after the ball.''

After practice most days, Collins walks straight over to the family area to lift his son Jamie Collins Jr., who just turned 3.

"I never thought I could love somebody like that,'' he said. "It's crazy, it's weird, but it's exciting. It's not just about me anymore. I'm blessed to have him. It keeps me grounded.''

Starting all over and leaving behind best friends such as New England's Dont'a Hightower has been hard, but Collins reminds himself of all that he's been through.

"There's trial and stuff that you have to deal with that are way bigger than whatever you're thinking about,'' he said. "Just think back, 'Man, you had to do this, you had to do that. This ain't bigger than this.' OK boom, you move on.''

And you do it with a smile.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/08/browns_jamie_collins_tells.html

I am pretty sure that I read CK did take 3 sacks in a row the other day but that happened with 2 starting O-linemen (maybe 3) out going against the 1st string d-line. These were not the result of CK holding the ball. They were because the starting d-lineman ran over backups.

This isn't to say one way or the over if CK is holding the ball long or not. Just that there's more to those 3 sacks than seen at first glance.

You are correct. I think it was something like the QB's gave up 5 or 6 sacks on 11 or 12 plays ... something pretty frightening Cody 3 out of 5 dropbacks. Kizer 2 out of 4 or 5 dropbacks and then Brock got sacked at least once in 3 or 4....

I'll be honest and say I am disappointed at the seeming lack of improvement from Kessler (I am rely on this board and the media for that feedback) ... and if he hasn't gotten a better then it will be a very open competition for the starting spot - and if Kizer does not start, and if the 3 QB's have not separated themselves much it is going to be a lot of additional pressure on whoever plays .... Kizer will be waiting in the wings till he is "ready".

With that said - I'm happy to wait for preseason and see how each QB looks. Heck in a preseason game it is still hard to tell (specially vs 3rd stringers) but it is still a lot more meaningful than TC.

I actually think the live scrimmage's in TC are "harder" in that the D isn't vanilla in TC scrimmages ... were implementing our D and they need to work on stuff ... especially when its not open to the press or public ...

Where pre-season is definetly harder than TC is they dont get to wear a red jersey ... *L* ...

I am trying to tell you that guy could get hurt trying to play fantasy football.

Kicker?

Desmond Bryant - DL - Browns

Browns DL Desmond Bryant "isn't assured of a roster spot."
Bryant is healthy after missing all last year, but his age and salarly are working against him with the Browns in full rebuild. It's possible he'll be shopped during the preseason. Cleveland would save $3 million from releasing Bryant.

Source: Scott Petrak on Twitter Aug 2 - 4:35 PM

Desmond Bryant back from injury, back to showing everyone who’s boss on the field

BEREA — Defensive lineman Desmond Bryant hadn’t practiced in pads in more than a year after tearing a pectoral muscle in July 2016. He hadn’t participated in a training camp practice in nearly two years.

So even though Bryant has been in the NFL for nine years, he felt a twinge of uncertainty when camp opened Thursday and the pads came on Saturday.

“When I first came back, I would say I was a little bit hesitant to go out and start throwing around, ‘OK, I’m the boss around here,’” he said Wednesday. “I felt like I had to go on the field and prove it.


“We’ve had a couple of days of practice now. I went out there and made some plays and reminded everybody who forgot, new guys who are here, who I am, and now I’ve been more vocal about things.”

Bryant, 31, does his loudest talking on the field. When he steps off the grass, he’s thoughtful and insightful but soft-spoken. As the only true veteran on a line where 25 seems old, he’s had to adjust that part of his game.

“I’m definitely the elder on the D-line by a long shot, so I try to do what I can to bring along the younger guys and help coach up where I can, bring the guys together, get D-line dinners going on, stuff like that,” he said. “I think that bonding really helps the team.”

Bryant (6-foot-6, 310 pounds) hadn’t played fewer than 12 games in a season since going undrafted out of Harvard in 2009 and signing with the Raiders. Then the pectoral tore off the bone while he lifted weights in preparation for training camp last year.

He went from starting all 41 games he played in his three seasons with the Browns to exile, which he labeled “brutal.”

“Last year at this time I was in the training room,” he said. “When I was sitting there I knew that once I got back outside how amazing it would feel and now that I’m back I have so much greater appreciation for the game.

“You never know when your last snap is. I could have not made it back, but I was fortunate to be back and I’m going to cherish every moment while I’m here and try to do the best I can.”

Bryant arrived in Cleveland in 2013 after signing a five-year, $34 million deal. The contract was restructured last year after the injury. He was paid $1.25 million instead of $6 million last year and is due $3 million non-guaranteed this season with a chance to recoup the $4 million reduction from the original $7 million salary in incentives.

His age, the contract structure, the team’s rebuild and the depth on the interior of the line — Danny Shelton, Xavier Cooper, Jamie Meder, Trevon Coley and rookies Larry Ogunjobi and Caleb Brantley — mean Bryant isn’t assured a roster spot when the season starts and could be offered in a trade. But Bryant, who’s been lining up at tackle with the second team, said he has more determination than ever to excel, and excel here.

“One of the things I tried to pride myself on is getting better each year in this league and I think I’ve done a pretty good job of that and so that is definitely my goal again this year,” he said. “I want to be the best player, the best Cleveland Brown I can be. I’ve been waiting for this for a long time and so I think it will be easier to do this time around.”

Bryant brings a combination of strength, athleticism and experience that isn’t matched on the roster and makes him a force against the pass and run. He has started 59 of 104 games played, totaling 26 sacks, 251 tackles, four forced fumbles, four passes defensed and two fumble recoveries.

“Just to see him running around out there making plays and just seeing the type of talent he has throughout the years of playing with the Browns, he’s definitely a key player for us, so it feels good to see one of your guys come back,” linebacker Christian Kirksey said. “He’s embracing it. He’s extremely humble. I can only imagine sitting out a year of playing football, especially when it’s something you love to do. I see him out here and he’s working hard whether it’s in the classroom, in the weight room, just being that leader. I’m extremely happy that he’s back out here making plays.”

Bryant doesn’t lack for motivation, but if he did, new defensive coordinator Gregg Williams could provide it. Bryant has been impressed with one of the team’s key offseason acquisitions.

“Coach Gregg brings a nastiness and an attitude and that kind of permeates throughout the rest of the defense undoubtedly,” he said, pointing to the dominance in a goal line drill Monday. “He really holds a higher standard, kind of a standard of perfection that I really haven’t seen before in my coaching and guys are really buying into that and it will pay off in the long run.”

Bryant said small adjustments and a larger volume of packages in the playbook separate Williams from his peers. Bryant is confident the run defense will benefit greatly after ranking 31st last year, allowing 392.4 yards a game.

“Absolutely, I think if you look at the track record of his defenses, they are also very good at stopping the run,” Bryant said. “I know his attention to detail, his passion is unparalleled in coaching, so you know any time there is any small, little mistake, he’s on your head about it and that’s going to help us be better players — run- and pass-wise.”

https://www.brownszone.com/2017/08/02/de...hos-boss-field/


Des Bryant and Miles Garrett worked with the 1st team defense for the 1st time today.

It is possible, his health has been a concern for pretty much his entire stay here in Cleveland, and we have SO many young guys like Brantley and company that could take his spot.

Meder very well may overtake him too.

This is cool and weird.

https://twitter.com/NateUlrichABJ/status/892834559896813568

I think Meder would spell Shelton while Bryant is more of a 3T. I'm for keeping him. We at least know he's good when he gets out on the field.

Seems like 8 is the total number of D linemen....maybe 9 as a stretch.

Four of those guys listed make the team. Maybe 2 go to the practice squad.

If Bryant comes back strong, he is a starter with Danny. If some of the young guys impress, maybe he does get traded.

Apparently there is a video of Garrettgetting the better of Thomas out there. Does anyone have it?

https://twitter.com/Tim_Whelan1325/status/892854625329700864

I too am for keeping him if he's healthy and ready to rock. That season before the injuries sprung if I recall, he was killing it.

But it's possible still he may not be a part of the 53.

Pass complete.

I read that they counted it as a sack. My guess is that he got to the QB but held up.