DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Training Camp part 2

I agree.

I cringed when I read that.

Put down a lot of players in the league including ones on his own team.

Geez, thanks coach.

Even if he's the "starter" he won't be on the field very much (like less than 5% of the defensive snaps).

Browns training camp snapshot (Day 15): Hue Jackson to name Brock Osweiler or DeShone Kizer starting QB Wednesday for second preseason game
Published: August 15, 2017 - 6:47 PM

Tuesday’s developments

Browns coach Hue Jackson will name either Brock Osweiler or rookie DeShone Kizer the starting quarterback Wednesday for the second preseason game Monday night against the New York Giants.

“Tomorrow I think I’ll have a pretty good feel for where we are and what we’re going to do,” Jackson said after Tuesday’s practice.

Osweiler started last week’s 20-14 win over the New Orleans Saints in the preseason opener. After Cody Kessler relieved Osweiler in the second quarter, Kizer played the entire second half and led two fourth-quarter touchdown drives to lift the Browns to victory.

On Tuesday, Osweiler and Kizer shared first-team repetitions while Kessler and Kevin Hogan worked exclusively with the scout-team offense. So Jackson’s decision about who’ll start against the Giants is clearly between Osweiler and Kizer, a second-round draft pick from Notre Dame. Whichever one doesn’t start will likely enter the game second, with Kessler third in the rotation.

“I always like to talk to [head of football operations Sashi Brown and chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta about these decisions] and get their feedback,” Jackson said. “But I don’t think it’s a hard decision.

“There are still going to be two more [preseason games] after [Monday] to continue to evaluate if we need to. … I’ll say it again, just for this game, we’re going to head into it hopefully in a way that I feel very comfortable with. And again, it could change, things could not change, and we’ll just kind of go from there.”

If Kizer were to win the starting job heading into the Sept. 10 regular-season opener against the Pittsburgh Steelers, would the Browns keep him as a $16 million backup?

Speaking Tuesday on one of the team’s flagship radio stations, 92.3 The Fan, Brown said he expects Osweiler to remain on the team.

“It would be surprising if Brock wasn’t on the roster,” Brown said. “He brings some experience.”

Osweiler provided the brightest moment for the starting offense in Tuesday’s team drills. He connected with rookie tight end David Njoku over the middle, and the first-round pick turned the catch-and-run into a 50-yard gain

• Asked on 92.3 The Fan about starting running back Isaiah Crowell entering the final season of his contract, Brown said the franchise is “willing to invest” in any position on the field. “We’re going to give him every opportunity to have a monster year,” Brown said. “There’s no bitterness if we end up having to pay a guy money at the top of the market that means he’s one of the better players in the league, and I think Crow’s got a great opportunity to come out and do that. The running backs, obviously for them, they are the guys that get banged on a lot, and their ability to contribute year over year at a certain level, there’s few guys that have proven they can do that.”

• Jackson gave players Tuesday night off, meaning they weren’t required to attend meetings. “They have done everything I have asked, so I give them a treat every now and then,” Jackson said. The players’ 11 p.m. curfews at the team hotel were still in place. “Not 11:01 — 11, and I made that very clear,” Jackson said.

• Rookie defensive tackle Caleb Brantley sat out with an injured shoulder. “I think he will be fine,” Jackson said. The sixth-round pick had surgery on a broken finger and missed time earlier in camp.

• Left guard Joel Bitonio exited team drills after falling during a running play and rising slowly afterward. “He is fine,” Jackson said.

• Cody Parkey has had a leg up in his kicking duel against rookie Zane Gonzalez. But Gonzalez made all five of his field goals Tuesday. Parkey made three of five, missing from 40 and 56 yards.

• Starting middle linebacker Tank Carder surrendered a 75-yard TD pass on a catch-and-run from Kessler to rookie tight end Taylor McNamara. Later, Carder intercepted a pass over the middle from quarterback Kevin Hogan and intended for rookie tight end Nate Iese.

• Rookie running back Matthew Dayes had a 65-yard catch-and-run from Kessler, and rookie defensive end Myles Garrett chased him to assist free safety Derrick Kindred with the tackle.

• Receiver Corey Coleman fought a few times with rookie cornerback Alvin Hill and other DBs.

• Browns legend Jim Brown offered advice on Twitter to quarterback Colin Kaepernick, who protested the national anthem last season and remains a free agent. “Jackie Robinson depended on Mr.Rickey, and together they broke the color line in baseball,” Brown tweeted. “Colin…there are owners to consult.”

• ESPN’s E:60 will feature Browns 10-time Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas during an episode scheduled to air at 9 p.m. Sunday.

Wednesday’s schedule: Practice from 3-5:30 p.m.

— Nate Ulrich

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/browns...-preseason-game

sounds like it's Brock to start

DeShone Kizer could enter Giants game sooner, but not at the start

Editor's note: Tony Grossi covers the Cleveland Browns for ESPN 850 WKNR.

More takeaways from Day 15 of Browns training camp …

1. Brock on: Hue Jackson said he will name his starting quarterback for the Giants game on Wednesday, and every indication is that it will be Brock Osweiler. One possible change, however, may be that DeShone Kizer enters the game second, hopscotching over Cody Kessler. That is what happened at Tuesday’s non-padded practice. In team drills, Osweiler took three reps and was followed by Kizer, who took one. Kessler then came in and took three. Previously, Kessler directly followed Osweiler and Kizer was third. Jackson downplayed that shift in the rotation, of course, but every little change is under scrutiny by the news-hungry media. Jackson said the decision on Monday night’s starter is not difficult. “I don’t think it’s a hard decision,” he said. “Again, I think it’s what’s best for our football team as we head into the season. We’re still just heading into our second preseason game. I think it’s important for this game. Just for this game, we’re going to head into it a way I feel very comfortable with. It could change. Things could not change. We’ll just go from there.” One other thing: Jackson released his second depth chart of the preseason and Osweiler remained No. 1.

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2. Recess time: After practice, Jackson informed his players they will get Tuesday night off – no meetings, no video review, nothing. They must report back by the 11 p.m. team curfew. It’s the first prolonged break Jackson has given the team since camp started on July 28. The team has practiced four days in a row, with two more to follow, before the next full off day. “I’m proud of them. They’ve earned it. Done everything we’ve asked,” Jackson said.

3. Brownie bits: Although Justin Currie is listed first at strong safety – the only change in the depth chart from Week 1 – Jabrill Peppers and Derrick Kindred were the safeties when the first team took the field. And Peppers lined up deep at free safety with Kindred assuming the in-box strong safety position … Jordan Payton, who caught the winning TD from Kizer against the Saints, appears to have jumped up a notch. He and Ricardo Louis took the second rep with the first team offense. “Jordan’s made some plays. He’s working hard. We reward guys who work hard and he’s one of those guys,” Jackson affirmed … More possible movement in the kicking competition: Cody Parkey hit the top of the left upright from 40 yards, and then missed from 56 yards, along with makes from 32, 46 and 49 yards. Rookie Zane Gonzalez made all five of his attempts, including the big one at the end.

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/...ot-at-the-start

I chuckled.

Dominant defenses have players like that.

If Williams has D-lineman sticking with the play 65 yards downfield that is all I need to hear. Our defense will be much improved.

And the big knock on Garrett was not finishing the play.Great to hear him chasing plays down. Suggests that this flaw last year was because of the injured ankle rather than lack of desire.

Yes, and some of those criticisms were completely unjustified. The guy maintained his backside containment in case of a reverse or a cut-back run. That's called discipline. It's too bad some people used that against him.

The kid can ball!

J.C.

"Jabrill Peppers and Derrick Kindred were the safeties when the first team took the field. And Peppers lined up deep at free safety with Kindred assuming the in-box strong safety position …"

I think this is where he ends up playing (if) you lable his position.

Best case scenario...

J/C .....

It only makes sense for Oweiller to start the next game, because if Kizer is the 2nd QB, he'll see more field time than he would if he were named the starter.

No one should worry overmuch about Carder giving up plays, because he will be back to his special teams duties as Schobert sends him to the bench on regular defense.

This was a point I made in a post before the draft. Garrett was ranked by PFF as 45th collegiate DE against the run in 2015. He raised that to 3rd against the run in 2016. That suggested to me that what others saw as laziness was actually discipline, a conscious effort to improve his weakness.

My concern since the draft has been: who can play the FS spot?? I was under the assumption that Peppers was best suited closer to the line of scrimmage (as is Kindred, Campbell, Pryor, etc) ... it just seemed to me like all the safeties had the same skill set

I likes. I also think Gregg will mix this up too, as Peppers plays well in the box as well.

I'm no expert, and I don't pretend to know how to project where a player's skillset is best suited. I have posted the following video before (and know of it from another posting it before me.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW4HK4HXEi0&feature=youtu.be

The analyst on the video points out that Peppers came to UM as a FS, but was converted to SS/LB because the team needed speed at that position. Peppers, being the team player he is, agreed. He didn't demonstrate ability as a FS because his team didn't use him there. Combine that with something Williams said early in the off season, that Peppers, being a KR/PR, has demonstrated some of the best ball tracking skills on the team, and you have the makings of a good FS.

Most of the time, when coaches change a player's position, it's because his skillset is better suited for that new position. In this case, it could be that Peppers skillset is so diverse that he can just plain play where ever you need him. His UM coaches used his skills where they needed him. Just because he has demonstrated the skillset to be a SS, doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have the skills to be a FS. This is what Williams is trying to find out.

excellent post

Man it sure seems as if Peppers is lighting it up... Very good to hear. Very good.

I could be wrong, but I see issues w/Peppers' skill set at FS. This isn't high school.

We'll see.

thanks buddy!

If a guys play is discounted because he played in the fourth quarter against players that are going to be cut

Then who cares because by that logic that person is going to be cut too. After all he played in the fourth quarter

So Kizer is a goner. Right?

J/c

Everyone wants to put people in a certain position based off skill sets and what the position requires and where they line up ... from what I've read about his college career Peppers is not in that mold ... he doesn't fit neatly into any of the traditional "boxes" ...

All the pundits talk about his instincts and brains and atheleticism .... I can't speak intelligently about it because i didn't see him enough in college .... if what they say is true ....

I've said it a few times ... from what i read he's a FOOTBALL PLAYER and hopefully will be utilized as such ... he will line up in many different spots on the field but his role will not be what lining up in that spot traditionally means ...

If his instincts and brains and atheleticism are what some claim them to be ... he will be given a lot more latitude to freelance out there and just go be a football player ..

Good luck trying to put him in a traditional role ... i don't think he will fit into one ... in the beginning as he's gaining experience you may be able to put him in a traditional role ... but as he gets more and more comftorable out there ... u should see the leash be gradually taken off him so his unique skill set can be allowed to shine ...

At least thats how I hope they utilize him if what i read is true ... i have no clue .... only time i saw him in college was against OSU in last years game ... i wasn't even sure he was on the field until he got in the skirmish with the fan at the end .. *L* ...

Vers - will you educate me? What skills sets do you want your FS to have? And where do you find Peppers to be deficient?

The skills I can come up with for what I want my FS to have are - In no particular order:

1, Qb of the defense. Make sure everyone is lined you right (primarily the backfield as I give this responsibility to the MLB for the front 7). Peppers seems smart enough to do this. Probably not at the start of his rookie season but likely by the end. If not definitely next year. I think this is very underrated for a FS. Remember a few years ago, we had some slow white guy who was really smart? I forget his name, maybe a Mangini guy. Came over from Baltimore maybe? Anyway, when he was in the lineup our defense as a whole played so much better and when he retired the D had a significant downturn.

2, A good open field tackler - when was the last time we has a FS who made the open field tackle? I think Peppers is probably a good open field tackler

3, A ballhawk - Able to to intercept the floated pass but I also include in this the ability to cover up for the cornerback that got beat. We haven't seen that from Peppers. Is this the skill you think he lacks?

4, Able to cover the TE down the field - I don't think he will have a lot of problem with that.

5, Able to cover the extra WR when we are in mis-matched units. I think he will struggle this but I think most FS's will, otherwise they'd play Cb.


That's about all the qualities that I can come up with that are position specific for a FS. Do you agree? What else am I missing?
Which ones do you think Peppers lacks?

My three concerns are the 3 R's.

Reads, recognition, and reaction.

I could be wrong. We'll see.

But again, he should be a fan favorite because he will make flash plays.

From the limited play I've seen against the Saints, and in TC, these could end up being strong suits of his. I'll withhold judgement until we see tougher competition, but I do like what I've seen in the flashes we've seen.

I agree...and thats why I added if you want to lable him.

Pepper's has the speed and the range to play deep saftey and I think that he has the ball skills too, most PR do, only he will need to harness his ball skills to that effect.

He does not come with ideal height, but that has never been a prerequisite in itself for success. (Gibson iirc was 5'11")

Good post;

In response to your 5th point.

I would venture to speculat, that 90% of FS are at a disadvantage in this aspect of the game. It's a miss match that useally favors the WR and the offense.

FS I want range and instincts with a touch of intelligence.

He has to be smart. He is the QB of the D.

I'd say Collins will be for us as well

Bitonio and Erving are both out due to injury. Joel with a knee and Cam with a calf

Browns' OL Joel Bitonio (knee) and Cameron Erving (calf), both of whom were injured Monday, are aiming to play Week 1 vs Pittsburgh.

Adam Schefter Twitter

Cameron Erving - T - Browns

Browns RT Cameron Erving (calf) is week to week.
Coach Hue Jackson already ruled Erving out for the Browns' second preseason game. It's possible Erving will be ready for Week 1, but this is a huge blow to his starting chances. Shon Coleman looks like a lock to open the year at right tackle.

Source: Andrew Gribble on Twitter Aug 16 - 4:14 PM

Joel Bitonio - G - Browns

Browns LG Joel Bitonio (knee) has been ruled out of the Browns' second preseason game.
Bitonio isn't dealing with any structural damage and won't need surgery. It's not related to his 2016 Lisfranc injury, but this is a setback that could cost him multiple weeks. Bitonio should be ready for the season opener.

Source: Andrew Gribble on Twitter Aug 16 - 4:19 PM

Hopefully Bitonio will be good to go in a week or so

Browns training camp snapshot (Day 16): Why injuries to Joel Bitonio, Cameron Erving are significant for very different reasons
Published: August 16, 2017 - 6:22 PM


Wednesday’s developments

The Browns had been pretty healthy for the vast majority of training camp until two notable offensive linemen were hurt in Tuesday’s practice.

Starting left guard Joel Bitonio (knee) and backup tackle Cameron Erving (calf) are considered week-to-week, meaning they won’t play in the second preseason game Monday night against the New York Giants and they’ll almost certainly miss the final two exhibition games.

Browns coach Hue Jackson is hopeful they’ll be back in time for the regular-season opener Sept. 10 against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

“We are right in that window where we have an opportunity to have them both back and ready to go and I feel good about that,” Jackson said Wednesday. “We will see how that goes.

“In my opinion, we will have both of these guys back before the regular season. There is no question in my mind, but I don’t want you guys to hold me to that.

Although the Browns, at this point, don’t expect either player to need surgery, the injuries are significant for very different reasons. Bitonio hasn’t been able to stay healthy for the past two years, and Erving is fighting to make the team.

A second-round draft pick in 2014, Bitonio missed the final 11 games of last season after suffering a Lisfranc injury and undergoing foot surgery. He missed six games in 2015 with ankle injuries.

But the Browns consider Bitonio, 25, one of the NFL’s best young guards and signed him in the offseason to a five-year, $51 million contract extension.

“We want all of our players out here,” Jackson said. “Trust me, this is not Joel doing this. Things happen, and so hopefully we will get him back. I know we will get him back.

“I am very comfortable and confident that he will be back and will be back soon — sooner rather than later — and be ready to play. He is very competitive. He wants to be out here right now. We will get through this. It is nothing major. We are going to be fine.”

Erving, a first-round pick (No. 19 overall) in 2015, had been competing with Shon Coleman for the starting right tackle job. Coleman had long been viewed as the favorite in the position battle, so Erving’s injury virtually guarantees Coleman will win the job.

Erving, 24, struggled at guard as a rookie, failed at center last season and had a rough preseason opener last week at left tackle. He’s far from a lock to make the team.

“He has shown some good things. He has shown some inconsistency, too,” Jackson said. “He needs to continue to get better. He is growing. I think he was right on the cusp of really making that next jump — the more you play out there. So it is unfortunate this happened. But at the same time, I think Cam is talented, and we just have to keep getting him better.”

Quarterback Brock Osweiler will start Monday behind a makeshift offensive line.

John Greco, a full-time starter the past four seasons who’s coming off a Lisfranc injury suffered in December, will start at left guard. Rookie fourth-round pick Rod Johnson will start at left tackle with Erving out and 10-time Pro Bowler Joe Thomas scheduled to rest.

“Joe Thomas? No, he will not play in this game,” Jackson said. “No, he will not. I am not going to go back on that.”

Thomas said he’ll play in the third preseason game Aug. 26 against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

“That’s the plan that gives me the best opportunity to get ready for the season and survive the full 16-plus weeks,” Thomas said.

• Rookie tight end David Njoku will make his NFL preseason debut against the Giants, the team he cheered for growing up in New Jersey. He missed last week’s exhibition opener with a back injury. “I am very excited about watching him on Monday,” Jackson said. “He needs to go out and make plays. He is a very talented young man, has a lot of ability, but he has to go show us that he can do it in a game.”

• Osweiler and rookie DeShone Kizer shared repetitions with the first-team offense while Cody Kessler and Kevin Hogan worked exclusively with the scout team. Kizer threw a 75-yard touchdown pass over the coverage of rookie cornerback Channing Stribling and into the hands of wide receiver Kenny Britt. Osweiler should have thrown a touchdown pass to an open Randall Telfer during a red-zone drill, but his throw to the tight end was off target.

• Rookie defensive end Myles Garrett pushed Johnson to the ground and received a fist bump from Jackson. Garrett also beat tackle Zach Sterup for a virtual sack of Kizer
• The Browns will host 100 season-ticket holders Thursday for a fan forum with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam and executive Sashi Brown.

Thursday’s schedule: The final practice of training camp is scheduled to run from 3-5:30 p.m.

— Nate Ulrich

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/browns...fferent-reasons

Man, Bitonio is always getting hurt.

Don't get rid of Greco.

I'm really waiting on a question from some reporter asking if Kessler has either regressed or if he's out of the competition to be the starter. It would be interesting to hear the response about Hue's "just trust me" QB.

I wonder if he'll be cut? I liked Hogan much more than Kessler coming out of college.

Not that I wish injuries on anyone, but an ideal situation is a team loses a qb and is ok trading for a dink and dunker. We can get something for Candy.