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Are all the sailors drunk or something. How does this keep happening?

Purp don't answer that.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/uss-john-mccai...topstories.html

A Navy destroyer, the USS John S. McCain, collided with a commercial vessel while on patrol east of Singapore early Monday morning local time, the Navy said.

"Initial reports indicate John S. McCain sustained damage to her port side aft," the Navy said, adding that a search and rescue mission was already underway.

No additional information was immediately available.

Adm. John Richardson, the chief of naval operations, tweeted: "Our first priority is determining the safety of the ship and crew. As more information is learned, we will share it."

This latest incident comes just two months after the USS Fitzgerald's collision with a Philippine-flagged container ship in the middle of the night off the coast of Japan. Seven U.S. sailors lost their lives in that incident and just last week the Navy relieved the USS Fitzgerald's commanding officer, executive officer and senior enlisted sailor for mistakes that led to a deadly crash.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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I don't know the answer to that.

Is it possible some foreign country is hacking the radar systems?

I don't know, but 2 incidents in 2 months......man.

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i dunno but i doubt it, especially since the Navy took responsibility for the first accident.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Weird stuff. Just shouldn't happen.

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It takes two to have a collision at sea. Both captain's and crews need to be competent.

We can't assume that it was the US Destroyer at fault.


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I think the uptick may have to do with new anti radar ops. It is so dark at sea most nights that you can't see you hand held out in front of you. So if we are using some anti radar tech the merchants might not see us. This doesn't explain why our boys aren't maneuvering around them though. and this is just a thought, no links or evidence, just a thought.

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Road Rage? wink


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At this time, there’s ten sailors missing. That can’t turn out good.


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Just checked and Navy is still in the "search" phase for the missing sailors. All we can do is hope and pray for those missing and their families.

This should never happen..but now that it has happened twice in the last month or so, the question must be asked if there is something other than human error going on.

A US Navy war ship should never be that close to another vessel, especially during peace time. It is the responsibility of the Navy ship to remain clear of civilian traffic at sea.


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Heard on the radio this morning the merchant vessel had failed a navigation inspection in Singapore not too long ago.

Kids these days just can't drive without their GPS.


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Didn't have service on the iPhone bro


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Things like this happen when moral is low. Corners are cut, shortcuts are taken.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Things like this happen when moral is low. Corners are cut, shortcuts are taken.

I will just ask the question, rather than jump to conclusions... are you indirectly blaming this on Trump?


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There is no excuse for a piece of modern warfare capable of inflicting massive amounts of damage to allow itself to get rammed by a freaking merchant ship. The commanding crew of that destroyer should face harsh punishment for letting something like that happen. It's pure dereliction of duty.


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Things like this happen when moral is low. Corners are cut, shortcuts are taken.

I will just ask the question, rather than jump to conclusions... are you indirectly blaming this on Trump?


Esprit de Corps is a pretty good gauge of the quality of leadership. I'm not indirectly blaming anyone, I'm directly blaming the leadership of the 7th fleet from the top down including where the buck stops. And we do know where the buck stops right?


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Fair winds and following seas, Shipmates. frown


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Electronics Technician 3rd Class Petty Officer Dustin Doyon from Suffield, Connecticut

One of the sailors who died serving our country.

RIP

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One of my coworkers was on the plane that brought this young man home .

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In response to that the 7th Fleet has a new leader . The highest ranking head to roll but there will be others . I hope you are right that it is a matter of human error and not something more nefarious .

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Many Sailors complain of 8 years with less and less practice and training.
Sad.

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?


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Budget cuts and such.

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so ships with the most sophisticated tech in the world, and this is the fault of budget cuts?


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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The Impact of a Declining Defense Budget on Combat Readiness

July 18, 2013

To fight effectively, the armed forces must be manned, equipped, and trained to operate under dangerous, complex, uncertain, and austere conditions—often with little warning. They require the right personnel operating the right equipment with the right training to win.

Readiness is like a three-legged stool. The personnel, equipment, and training “legs” need to be balanced and in sync to support the load. The most modern equipment is useless without highly trained personnel to operate and employ it. Conversely, outmoded or unreliable equipment can hamper the effectiveness of the most highly motivated and skilled personnel. To fight effectively, personnel must train with their combat equipment, practicing their combat missions under realistic, demanding conditions. Quality personnel, equipment, and training are the essential dimensions of combat readiness.

http://www.heritage.org/defense/report/the-impact-declining-defense-budget-combat-readiness

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uh huh.

so again, what does this have to do with the incident, again?

cause this isn't due to budget cuts.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Readiness is like a three-legged stool. The personnel, equipment, and training “legs” need to be balanced and in sync to support the load.

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Originally Posted By: Swish
so ships with the most sophisticated tech in the world, and this is the fault of budget cuts?


Well, in fairness, that's just as plausible as what 1 person on here alluded to: That the buck stops with trump, ergo, it's trumps fault.

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yea it ain't trump's fault, either.

it's squarely on the guys running the ship.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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it's all on the ship's captain imho. I mean how they HELL do you allow a merchant ship to ram you on one of the most modern war machines on the planet. Our destroyers are second to none in the world. It's not a machine problem. It's a human problem.


You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Anyone thought of the possibility that the ship was hacked? It did lose control of the steering for 3 minutes.


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I wouldn't think it's guidance system would be connected to anything that could be hacked. If it is then that is a serious design flaw that any idiot would know better not to do.


You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
The Impact of a Declining Defense Budget on Combat Readiness

July 18, 2013

To fight effectively, the armed forces must be manned, equipped, and trained to operate under dangerous, complex, uncertain, and austere conditions—often with little warning. They require the right personnel operating the right equipment with the right training to win.

Readiness is like a three-legged stool. The personnel, equipment, and training “legs” need to be balanced and in sync to support the load. The most modern equipment is useless without highly trained personnel to operate and employ it. Conversely, outmoded or unreliable equipment can hamper the effectiveness of the most highly motivated and skilled personnel. To fight effectively, personnel must train with their combat equipment, practicing their combat missions under realistic, demanding conditions. Quality personnel, equipment, and training are the essential dimensions of combat readiness.

http://www.heritage.org/defense/report/the-impact-declining-defense-budget-combat-readiness


The DoD gets plenty of money...


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Originally Posted By: rockyhilldawg


Electronics Technician 3rd Class Petty Officer Dustin Doyon from Suffield, Connecticut

One of the sailors who died serving our country.

RIP


SAR Swimmer, HooYah!

So That Others May Live




Fair Winds and Following Seas


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https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy...uary-grounding/


7th Fleet’s sloppy seamanship manifested in Antietam’s January grounding

Amid the fallout from the destroyer John S. McCain’s collision Monday, the four-star admiral who leads the Pacific Fleet lamented Tuesday that a series of at-sea disasters in 7th Fleet’s waters are taking place during ”the most basic of operations.”

Yet similar problems were apparent months ago, when the cruiser Antietam ran aground in Tokyo Bay in January, a costly mistake caused in part by sloppy anchoring, according to an internal Navy investigation.

That investigation raised questions about whether sailors could anchor a ship properly and led Surface Naval Force commander Vice Adm. T.S. Rowden to direct other commands to review whether existing technical manuals sufficiently explain how to anchor.


“There does need to be a review to determine whether procedures that fully capture the requirements to set an anchor currently exist,” Rowden wrote in his April investigation endorsement.

The investigation into the Antietam’s grounding, recently released under a Freedom of Information Act request, casts a spotlight on the lackadaisical seamanship and questionable leadership that is now a top concern among Navy leaders.

Pacific Fleet commander Adm. Scott Swift sent an internal message Tuesday to officers in charge that the fleet had experienced ”a series of unfortunate incidents, some of which claimed the lives of our shipmates,” while conducting basic duties like anchoring, navigation, surface ship contact management and carrier qualifications.

His message came after Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson announced a one-day ”operational pause” in the wake of the destroyer John S. McCain’s fatal collision with an oil tanker Monday morning near Singapore that left at least one sailor dead and nine sailors missing.

That disaster took place two months after the destroyer Fitzgerald was struck by a commercial ship off the Japanese coast in June, killing seven sailors.

Those fatalities led to the firing Wednesday of 7th Fleet commander Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin, who was weeks away from retirement.

The grounding of the Antietam in January was the first in a series of four mishaps so far this year. It was followed by the cruiser Lake Champlain colliding with a South Korean fishing vessel this spring.

Capt. Joseph Carrigan, who was relieved of Antietam’s command in March and received no further punishment, failed to fire the engines as the ship drifted toward a shoal that morning, the report states.

“The grounding was preventable and the CO is ultimately responsible,” the Carrier Strike Group Five report states.

He is currently with 7th Fleet and awaiting orders, officials said.

While not listed as direct causes of the grounding, the report cites a series of miscues that contributed to the incident, which led to $4.2 million in repairs and 1,100 gallons of oil spilling into the bay.

As the ship drifted toward a shoal while bringing up anchor in high winds and currents that morning, Carrigan failed to fire the engines because he feared the anchor would damage the sonar dome, according to the report.

Before that, the ship missed its intended anchorage spot by 60 yards on approach. Instead, it anchored 247 yards from its intended position and didn’t let out enough anchor chain to stop the ship.

The phone talker relayed the ”let go the anchor” order after hearing Carrigan, instead of waiting for direction from the officer of the deck, the report states.

There was a delay between the time of the anchor order and when the anchor fell because a pelican hook retaining pin was inserted backwards, making it difficult for deck sailors to remove it, according to the report.

“The anchor was not properly set and was dragging, but did not provide a visual cue (e.g., chain hopping) to the forecastle team,” the report states. ”The forecastle team reported ‘the anchor appears to be holding.’ This likely added confusion regarding ship movement.”

However, statements revealed that Carrigan, the executive officer, the officer of the deck and the navigator were aware the anchor was not holding the ship in position, according to the report.

The skipper’s rush to get underway that morning, and a demeanor that stifled critical crew communications, were also factors, according to the investigation.

The Antietam was underway and heading out of Yokosuka harbor just after 9 a.m., and Carrigan “appeared frustrated that a problem transferring throttle control to the pilothouse caused the ship to get underway late,” the report found.

Carrigan opted at one point to turn down the communications circuit in the pilothouse because it was too loud, a move that left the bridge “severely degraded,” the report states.

He also “chose to remove himself and key watchstanders from the Bridge while the anchoring evolution was ongoing, losing time and focus that may have allowed Antietam to take corrective actions,” the report states.

Investigators found that the CO, the executive officer, the officer of the deck, the conning officer and the navigator all failed to account for high winds and currents during the planning and execution of the ship’s navigation and anchoring plan.

“Navigation observed the distance to shoal continued to decrease,” the report states. “There were no reports made that the ship was standing into danger.”

Watchstanders on the bridge and the combat information center “failed to provide forceful backup to the CO,” according to the report.

“There was a general awareness that Antietam was approaching shoal, but neither the navigation team nor the CIC team stated the ‘ship was standing in danger’ or provided a recommendation to maneuver away from danger,” the report states.

The Antietam ran aground at 9:53 a.m.

Carrigan began receiving casualty reports, and the ship declared loss of pitch control on the port and starboard shafts 12 minutes after the grounding, according to the report.

Meanwhile, the ship continued to drift toward fishing vessels and a sea wall, and the crippled cruiser had to turn starboard to avoid a collision.

“Crew members on the fantail reported an oil sheen in the vicinity of the ship,” the report states, and tugs were called in to bring the ship back home as it drifted toward a channel marker.

Several procedural compliance lapses were noted, including omitted maintenance documentation and violations of other directives and CO orders, but those were not direct contributors to the grounding, the report states.

The navigator was not qualified as officer of the deck, and the Antietam did not have a qualified navigator on board, the report states.

“There was a lack of formality associated with issuing standard commands, giving orders from the bridge to the forecastle, making navigation reports, and making recommendations to the CO ahead of the grounding which increased decision time,” according to the report.

An unauthorized change to the watch bill was made by the engineering department, replacing an engineman with a machinist’s mate for anchor windlass operation.

The navigation voyage planning check sheet only had two of its five pages filled out, the report states.

Carrigan had a stellar Navy career going before the grounding with a retinue of joint, Pentagon and Capitol Hill postings that mark the bios of rising-star officers.


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Sounds a lot like training issues to me.

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Very tough.

The Antietam grounding was the result of a complex series of events that came together at the “wrong” time.

What are you gonna do?

Sailing the oceans is dangerous business.

In a warship is much more dangerous.

I guess the incredible technology is supposed to help.

It’s easy to identify the problems in any given incident in retrospect. But when you're talking ~ 450+ warships doing difficult stuff, you simply can’t be 100.00% perfect. Ya I know that's the goal.

Part of the job is pushing things to the limit. (sometimes the only way limits can be defined)

Well, there’s lessons to be learned. I hope the punishment in the various mishaps is considerate.

The sailors killed, did not die in vain.

I hope the families choose Arlington.


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It is a good thing when these problems come to light.
It is a bad thing when it costs us lives and shows the world their are chinks in the armor.

It's outcome is dependent on if we have the will to address and fix the problems.

Grenada taught us our various branches of the Military could not communicate with each other on the battlefield and we fixed that.

The failed Iran rescue attempt taught us our various units had problems in working together and we fixed that too.

These things, when properly addressed, make us stronger.
This is scary however that we are discovering a problem just when we were on the verge of Nuclear War with North Korea.

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1. we're NOT on the verge of a nuclear war with N. Korea
2. If we were, ship readiness is moot


This is a failure in leadership from the top on down - and I'm talking way above CINCPACFLT - I'm talking POTUS current and past creating an atmosphere where being lax in knowledge and ability is acceptable.

Yeah, I'm an old, salty bastard, but in my day the crews were trained to still do everything perfectly without ANY of the technology, and the ship was run in that manner. I was also blessed with CO's that weren't obstinate jackwagons... but, that comes from CO's back in my day being rigorously selected, not like today where they simply complete a tour as XO and then become the next CO. Leadership ability used to mean something for getting a command at sea - today, a command at sea is just a ticket to be punched on the way to chasing a flag officer billet.




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When I was in, my carrier had a room full of sonar/radar equipment with like 10 or so stations manned 24/7. As an electrician I was in it a few times and it looked straight out of the future. No idea how it worked but I know nothing could hit us without us seeing it coming.

We also drilled so much that emergency response became second nature. We trained at every level for our daily jobs and our specialty jobs. So I have to question how this is happening. I've already speculated that it has to do with our stealth tech but I can't imagine that they would keep crap tech in place when it's costing ships and lives...

Then again it's the military.

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