DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 13 Buccaneers 9 Postgame Thoughts

j/c:

Absolutely loved watching Kizer play last night. Not saying he is a finished product or anything but I think he's made monumental leaps since Preseason Game 1. I agree with others that the stat line doesn't say it all. I would have been fine with starting Brock but, after last night, just give Kizer the ball and go with it. He will make many mistakes but I think he has made much progress this preseason and the Browns should just continue to play him. Although he tended to stare down his first read, he always seems to keep his eyes down field, move up nicely in the pocket while doing so, and got the ball out relatively quicker than the last two performances. I'd like to see more intermediate throws instead of so many deep throws but maybe Hue had just as much to do with that as Kizer. I think he sold the play-action well and that did open up some receivers. Still a long way to go, but I was impressed with his poise and command of the offense. Well done, Kizer. Keep it up.

Corey Coleman played very well and showed off some great hands and athleticism. The guy showed much promise until he broke is hand it week 2 or 3. I think, with improved/competent QB play, it's fair to be excited about his ceiling.

Same old Crowell.....frustrating plays; very nice plays. Goodness, that guy's balance is horrendous. Still, he is at his best the more touches he gets, so hopefully Hue will decide to run the ball more. Seemed like he got pass happy in the first half. Yes, it's only preseason, but hopefully it's not a continued trend from last year.

It looked like the interior struggled against the run last night with Meder and Coley. Outside of that, I really enjoyed the defensive performance again. Reports are saying that Shelton could miss at least Week 1. Meder will need to step it up as it seems like they have him penciled in as the direct 1-tech/NT backup to Shelton. I'd like to see more Ogunjobi (spelling?) out there. Does anyone else have a take on his play last night?

I'm one of the biggest Joe Haden fans there is on here, but I don't think he had a good game. Others who know football better could add to this but Williams tends to run more zone than man coverage. That might not play to Haden's strengths, but then again, after so many injuries for Haden, maybe it will?

Parkey vs Gonzalez might be the hottest position battle remaining. 25 yrs old vs 22 yrs old, respectively. Whichever one gets cut should have zero problem finding work. And, honestly, if it is essentially a tie in the minds of the coaching staff/front office, I'm guessing they lean towards the guy they just drafted. Tough decision.

Did McCourty play? I didn't hear his name called, and admittedly, turned it off when Kessler came in, but wasn't sure if he was on the field.

Trying not to be too repetitive here...

I was left wondering whether Hue asked Kizer not to run the ball, or if that was Kizer's choice. There were multiple opportunities to run it, including once on 3rd down that would've certainly gotten the first.

I love that Kizer has the guts to throw into these tight windows, and the arm to complete them. But I couldn't help but feel he got a little DA-ish, locking in on the same no arc fastball throw. i.e. He needs improvement on his touch.

Crowell reminded me last night of how much the dude falls down with little-no contact. There are smarter evaluators around here that can tell me why. We hear about running backs who are too upright all the time, is it possible for a guy to be not upright enough? L I mean, he's a really effective runner, but he also leaves a fair amount of yards on the field because he doesn't seem to keep his legs under his body.

I thought Nassib would be a great spot DE when I first saw him last cam/preseason, and I still think that. He's like the equivalent of the NBA bench player that brings a high-energy boost to complement the starters better ability.

I know folks are annoyed at the penalties, but remember that preseason is often whistle-heavy, as the refs are trying to send messages to the players before the real games begin. I personally will hold off on calling this team undisciplined until I see how it goes v Pitt onward.

I'm more excited to watch a season than I have been since, lord, I don't know when. The D is more athletic and aggressive, but also the O, while it may not produce a lot of points or be super efficient, will 1) not put the the D on the field too much with a million 3-and-outs, and 2) will make at least half as many great plays as big mistakes as long as Kizer is in there. Kessler and Osweiler offenses are just infinitely less watchable, and would/will put a lot more pressure on the D to hold up through a full game.

As I said in the game day thread, it was odd, I actually enjoyed watching the Browns game yesterday (at least the first half).

-I hope Kizer can stay healthy all season as I really don't want to watch Kessler play anymore. He is accurate but it seems like he can only play in first gear. It's almost like he has a phobia throwing the ball deep downfield. When he plays? It's usually boring to watch. Vanilla. Me no like.

-Coleman played really well.

-Even though I think he's an egomaniac, it looks like we should have tried to have kept Terrelle Pryor?

-Our D is looking really good most of the time. Gregg Williams knows what he is doing and does it well.

The Browns are looking like they are developing into a good team - FINALLY.

Yeah, I'd have loved to keep Pryor ... and even moreso in retrospect. But I also haven't seen him this preseason in WASH

* I'm pretty impressed with Kizer's upside. He has the tangibles; arm talent, size, athleticism. I think he might have the "it" to be a 2nd tier or even top tier QB. At least 3 drops last night held his stats down, but to be fair there probably should have been 1-2 more Ints by the Bucs. He reminds me a little bit of when Terry Bradshaw came out. Raw as hell, but the skillset was apparent from the start.

* Good game for Coleman, although he appeared to pull up on that early fly pattern down the sideline that got overthrown by DK. To be fair, I couldn't tell if the pass was accurate or offline, but he did slow down on it. Anyway, it does look like we have at least one WR option. No idea where the others are coming from - maybe the waiver wire?

* We need a TE. Paging Gary Barnidge.

* I'd like to see Duke in the feature RB role. Crowell shows flashes, but as a couple others posted, his balance blows. He tackles himself at least once a game, leaving yards on the field.

* On D, I was impressed by Ogbah, Kindred, Peppers, Garrett, Kirksey, and Schobert. I do think Schobert looks a little lean to play in the middle - he might need to add some bulk, but we'll see how it goes.

* As much as I like Kizer, I can't help wishing we had a Brian Hoyer or Josh McCown to be the short-term bridge to DK. I'm really worried that those first two games with Pitt and Baltimore could be a disastrous baptism for any rookie QB. Ideally, Osweiler would be that guy, but it doesn't look like that's the case.

Devalve is easily our best WR option at TE ... but he and Njoku SUCK at blocking. Telfair is an AWFUL receiver. It's a big weakness.

One last post game thought: I'd like to see Kizer play most of the game vs the Bears - at least well into the 3rd qtr - just to get the reps. Hell, I'd let him throw it all over the place to try and get some rhythm and to get familiar with the receivers' individual abilities and tendencies. Because after that game, it gets real.

Okay, if Corey Coleman plays like that, I'll get off the kid's back and stop pressuring him negatively like I've been. Those were some amazing catches. Amazing...

The defense was fast and physical
And this isn't a offense they played that's
That chump change either.Tampa couldn't find a rythym all night
The pressure up the middle off the edge had Winston out of his comfort zone
The safeties played smart and physical
Nassib is the 2nd best defender this preseason behind Garrett

I didn't see Orchard show up I think he gets cut.

Offensively it's the worst other than the Jets
I'd even ponder a trading Crowell for a starting WR. Dayes looks the part .
His leg drive and feet don't stop on contact
I'm waiting to see what the hype over Duke is about

Kizer has a legit NFL arm with a nice release
His tracjectory on the deep stuff looks like Jeff Blake from the 90s.
He will improve.

The tight ends are laughable much like the WRs other than Coleman
Missed blocks. Can't move past tacklers
Hall Higgins and Louis couldn't make half the rosters in the NfL.

We did try to keep Pryor. We made a very fair and probably the best offer. He opted to leave. It's not on our FO!!!

I have a theory. I think Hue is deliberately hiding DeValve with the second team and waiting to unleash him once the season starts with the ones. I get that Telfair can block and all that but he is not a receiving TE. I think we see MUCH more DeValve starting Week One. Or at least I hope we do.

I'm fine with Njoku taking a back seat. TEs rarely come out with guns-a-blazin' and, I think like many speculated after the draft, he's very raw and athletic. Needs some more seasoning maybe?

Well, we'll see if the WRs make any progress through the season, and if they don't we'll get better ones next draft.

The way this draft was heavy on D I believe the "18 draft will be more on O especially the skilled positions. Either way we have the picks to do what we want thanks to our FO.

From the PFF evaluation:



Wow, who saw this coming? I think most of us saw Peppers as a defensive hybrid because that's how UM used him. If he can take on the FS role and play it well, that's a huge hole filled.

I'm pleasantly surprised by Peppers thus far ... especially with him playing deep safety and being pretty good there

I agree, he has been a pleasent surprise at what I thought was our biggest hole on defense.

I think Njoku's biggest problem is that he's been dinged up and missing time. Hopefully he'll get healthy when things matter and things will start clicking.

I also think Hue's play calling has been more about getting looks at different things than really game planning things that he thinks will work.

Schobert impressed me some. Filled holes (somewhat surprisingly) well.

Peppers and Kindred might actually work out well. They still have to prove it in real games, but WRs will have things to think about on Sundays it looks like.

I'm not a fan of off coverage which we ran a lot of, but it is preseason. Haden looked a lot better when he wasn't giving his guy a free release.

Considering the elements and coverages the Bucs were giving us, I was surprised Hue didn't give Kizer more easy throws. He definitely didn't try to baby him.

I didn't think the DTs looked as good against the Bucs as they did the Giants. Meder looked like he might be playing through something minor.

Myles Garrett didn't rack up stats, but Jameis felt him and was getting rid of the ball quickly. He had three different guys tracking him fairly often.

Collins, Schobert, and Kirksey can all get after the QB. They need to clean up their pass coverage/assignments some, but have the ability to do that as well. This D looks like it will be fun to watch, especially if Peppers and Kindred can give pass catchers gator arms up the seams.

Everyone is flying to the ball and arriving with bad intentions. I like "whack" and "remember me" tackles (LOL). Wouldn't be against wrapping better, but I like the attitude/swagger.

I'm not sure what's up with Kessler. He hasn't looked very good. Confidence just doesn't seem to be there. I don't know if he's seeing Kizer's physical abilities and being intimidated or what.

We just might go with Kizer and Hogan as our only QBs, and I'd honestly be okay with that. Hogan didn't look that great, but his motion looks improved and the rain could explain some of the inaccuracy early. We've got a surprising amount of talent on the team, and will have to make some tough cuts on the defense.

Orchard was out with a groin.

Most has been covered, but I'll chime in anyway.

Kizer looks the part, and is very raw. His ability to get a frozen rope 15-20 yards downfield is a thing of beauty. But, if he'd put an arc on the INT, he could've dropped it over the defender's head. He needs to learn discernment with his throws. And he's still very inaccurate at times, but seems to be improving. He does lock on to receivers. Hopefully, he'll become more comfortable as he develops chemistry with everyone and knows where everyone will be and when they're supposed to be there.

Kessler needs to be cut asap.

Hogan was impressive aside from a short stretch of bad passes.

Coleman impressed.

Crow needs 25 carries to get rolling. And he still falls too easily. Is it his forward lean?

Duke is better in space than between the tackles. I really like Dayes in that role.

Telfer needs to be trotted out only in blocking situations.

They need to start grooming Njoku, regardless of rawness. Teach him to block, and let him take his lumps catching the ball. We need his size and speed in the middle. I'd rather see Njoku catch or maybe miss than Telfer miss or maybe catch.

Britt is annoyingly mediocre.

Will Louis, Leslie & Hall be allowed to step up? It wouldn't bother me to see one of them unseat Britt. All of them show promise. They need more opportunities, IMO.

O-Line looked decent. Not seeing those huge running lanes we were promised though.

Defense looks impressive. Fast, aggressive, quick to the ball, very few missed assignments, and really good tackling. Williams has them playing at a high level, deep into the roster. Cut downs will be interesting, but we should end up with a talented, aggressive D.

I really like what we're getting from Garrett, Ogbah, Collins, Kirksey, Shobert, Coley, Meder, Nassib, Orchard, Boddy-Calhoun, Pryor, Taylor, McCourty, and Peppers. (Sorry if I missed anyone.)

Haden looks like he's done. Mr. Catchup. He's lost a step and doesn't look like he even belongs on the same team.

It's refreshing to see our coach actually coaching on the sideline. It's good to see Hue get upset and then teach when something goes wrong.

Gonzales may have hurt his chances making the team with his miss.

Special teams looks good except for the constant penalties. They have to get that under control.

They have to get penalties under control in general, but at least they seem to be aware of it and work to fix it.

Overall, they look competitive and hungry. They're playing fast and they're starting to look like a real team. They need to improve on cutting down the dreaded 'Brownisms" but it certainly looks like time and experience will get this team on track. It's exciting. The future looks bright.

penalties have been an issue for three straight weeks ... I know it's preseason, but I don't like that trend. Sometimes when preaching to be aggressive and hungry, you get penalties too. But we can't have the dumb mental ones

I got to go to the game last night and watched it again when i came home as I left at start of 4th when it turned into a downpour. Some thoughts

The defense is legit

Joe Haden is not, he's done, I'd trade him for anything right now.

Myles is a freak

Schobert was EVERYWHERE

Gonzales was hitting 70 yard field goals 3/4 up the goal posts during warm ups

Cody Kessler is not an NFL player

Kizer has a huge issue with footwork and reading the defense, he was all over the place. But maybe some of that was nerves and maybe it calms down, but he was high on almost all his throws.

To Kizers credit, when he was off the field, he was either talking with coaches or sitting next to JT in discussion. He's def. coachable, and seems to want to put in the work, can't hate that

I don't like Hue the playcaller, he needs to hire an OC

Crowell looks slow and still can't run with balance, i'm not sure what his deal is, Dayes will take his job at some point this season, Dayes looks shot of a cannon, one cut and boom, Crow trips coming out of the backfield.

Chris Tabor is the NFL teflon man, god his unit is EASILY the worst

Peppers was great at safety, I think he'll be fine

The offsides by Collins on the 4th & 4 long FG attempt was annoying. I looked at my wife, shrugged my shoulders, and said "Browns".

Ha I was at the game and like 5 of us said the same thing, wouldn't be a browns game without one of those

the only good thing was our D stepped up and got an INT IIRC

Per rotoworld, 10.5m dead cap hit if we were to cut him. I can't imagine we'd do that.

yeah, we wouldn't. dang

I couldn't disagree more. Tabor is an amazing Special Teams Coach. People loved his ST unit when it was a the H&H show. Then wanted him fired once Banner & Lombardi cut folks, weekly, changed who was on ST. Then, once stability was had with Pettine & Farmer, people liked Tabor's unit again.

Last year, when the new FO purged a ton of people, Special Team sucked again, and naturally Tabor "needs" to be fired. My point is, when regimes change Tabor is hated, when there is a year or two of consistency, our ST looks pretty damn good.

You give the guy legit players, he'll thrive, just like any other coach. Plus, he's been through three coaching regimes and he kept his job in every single one of them. That's VERY rare. People tend to bring in their own people, yet, he's be the most consistent piece for the Browns.

Pryor dropped a td pass. Wide open over the middle all by himself

Could have run forever

Duke Johnson may have had the worst pass block I ever saw when he got Cam Ervinged into the backfield

wow

Redskins better cut him!

The toughest ones to catch, when you know you're open by a mile

Loved how all the receivers on the last two possessions removed their gloves in a downpour. If you're gonna make the team, you better show you have the best hands. Even Devalve tool off the gloves.

wow didn't notice this! cool

Kizer had a lot of ups and a lot of downs. I saw him regressing to some bad habits later in the game. I never noticed his "kick" until people like Vers and I think Diam mentioned it. I definitely saw it becoming more prominent as he started to regress a little bit.

Loved Schobert's play.

Peppers had a big interception. I did notice one catch where he seemed to be out of position, however, but the reception was blamed on Schobert.

I was fuming at Collins for the offside penalty, but it seemed to work out. He better count his lucky stars. I'd be extremely ticked if I were Jackson. Outside of that, though, I didn't notice him much.

I became overly emotionally ticked off at Kessler. This was a guy I was really hoping would be a Cinderella story last year after hearing Hue's "trust me" speech. He was bad. Really bad. Like, Charlie Frye first game of '07 bad. You know it's bad when the team comes back in with Kevin Hogan and looks reinvigorated.

Run defense really struggled at first, but I was generally happy with our defense. There were a couple plays, though, where you saw that our aggressive pass rush is going to leave our talent-deprived secondary hanging out to dry.

Garrett looked good. I'm still waiting for him to have that monster sack on a starting QB. That's just for my own selfish observation though.

Kicking battle...Zane had that miss...although it was from a very long distance in bad conditions. I think he's the surefire winner had he made it, but I still think the door is open. Close battle.

Not a fan of Britt.. I think we're going to regret signing him. Jordan Leslie should have that spot.

Kizer was good and bad. He's got a gun for an arm. Actually, he's better than I would have given him credit for.

We'll see..

Coleman can make a catch... geez..

Peppers... Nice pick and return and the kid can tackle.

I like Hogan better than Kessler.

Garrett and Ogbah.. This could be fun to watch

Nassib can be a force,, needs to be consistent

Penalties are off the hook. Need a clean up there.




How about

Can you or one of the others explain what you mean by "kick"?
I'm not familiar with that term and hadn't come across that original post you are referencing back to.
I have not been able to see enough of kizer to pay attention to his mechanics closely but I am hoping to. This would be helpful for me.

Thanks guys