DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Trying to Trade Haden

All-time favorite Joe Haden play:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000432559/Matt-Ryan-intercepted-by-Haden

I think these videos are extremely telling.

The first two show a guy who should be bagging groceries by the end of preseason. Absolutely zero technique at all. He looks like a borderline professional. Someone who's barely played the position much less made multiple Pro Bowls.

The last one showed an extremely confident and gifted football player making a big time play against one of the best WRs of all time. It showed Haden's swag where he would never get lined up completely before the snap...I hated this about his game...but always recovered with excellent skill and technique.

I think the only hope he has is that the change of scenery does him some good. But his game and confidence are broken. Even though he's with the Steelers now, I actually hope he recovers and becomes the player he can be. I love watching good corner play. But I think it's a long shot.

I love how he went up hard for the ball, but should've been illegal contact penalty for sure.

The more I think about this .... this is a perfect example of analytics at work. 3rd or 4th best CB on the team is also the highest player on the team ...... that just doesn't fly with analytics.

It makes sense that they asked Haden to take a pay cut. He refused, so they cut him. I kind of agree that we should have kept him, because he is, at least, our 3rd or 4th best CB. However, the team is obviously going with youth ... and they are positioned to add a lot of strength in next year's draft .... on both sides of the ball.

j/c

i just hate the fact that he signed with PITT, especially since he had better/other offers (reportedly). it makes me think he's longed to play with them

Nice article about the cap. It didn't awswer my question. However, I looked around and got linked to a Jags site. It looks like we are both right and wrong. If a team doesn't meet the 89% rule, which is averaged over a 5 year span, the team, through the NFLPA has to pay out whatever money necessary to meet the rule. That money will then be distributed to all the players on the team at that time.

It didn't get in to if the players got equal shares or if it was payed out as a percentage based on what the players earned.

Its gets even better:

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nf...-nfl-free-agent

According to Ian Rapport:

"The #Browns offered to cut CB Joe Haden's pay from $11M to $7M, source said. He ends up making exactly that with the #Steelers in year 1."

That tells me he wanted out of Cleveland and him refusing to redo his contract forced their hand. He had given us his all for 7 years and this organization and ownership NEVER really ever tried to win. All they do is keep changing coaches and gutting the roster every few years...simply put Haden had had enough.

Haden is NOT done I assure you. For the 1st time in two years he is actually fully healthy(not being bothered by groin injuries and a hernia). He was taking it easy in the preseason just like all the other vets do...why risk getting hurt in a meaningless preseason game?

He returns to 2014 Pro Bowl form with the Steelers, and Browns front office will once again look like complete idiots....Mitchell Scwartz wasn't good enough to play for us either, he was only the highest rated Right Tackle in the NFL for the Cheifs...LOL@ our front office....

Well of course, but we are still in the building phase, molding the team into the FO's vision. The cuts are tough this year, but with FA and the draft next year, cuts will be even tougher. The better you get...etc.

I don't agree with a lot of what you say as you ranted a good deal in your close.

That said, I can't say I am happy it worked out this way.

I think it became clear Joe was going to have a role, but it wasn't going to be as a starting corner. That made it easy for him to not lower his pay to get out and made it somewhat easy for us to cut him loose.

I am not mad at the FO for cutting him, and I am sad he is gone.

That pretty much sums up my feelings on his release...

J/C
Yes, it's sad to see one of our ambassadors go, especially to a rival.
Good for Joe to get a fresh start, doubt his body holds up for the season but we will see.

Make no doubt if you agree or not with this FO philosophy, but they are molding this team with the future clearly in focus.

Joe was offered a fair deal if he wanted to stay. He took another deal and quite honestly, I don't blame him.
Too bad he won't be here for the turn around, he deserved it.
Time for all parties to move on!

It's like someone a long ago said, he'll be the person we target and throw on first, second and third downs because that's what he gave up in coverage here, yards and downs.

I will take back what I said on wishing him luck given he chose to go to our biggest revival, but he was a good person while here and played great that one year/\.

j/c:

My problem w/this is that people keep saying he was our 3rd or 4th best corner as if it were factual, while just a few weeks ago he was our number 1 corner.

I always thought the guy was overrated on here, but dang, y'all change your opinions quickly.

I think our corners are way below average. I'm not sure if we have one guy that should be starting. Thus, while Joe isn't all that, this is a team that can ill-afford to lose a player of his caliber.

I know this isn't going to go over well, but this seems to be another case of posters protecting the FO no matter what.

Brock and Cody had the #1 due to experience alone, and both have been replaced due to practice and play performance, just saying.

The fact our corners are sub-par and we let him walk says what needs to be said regarding Joe. Play like an average corner, asked to be paid like one. Maybe a new scenery is his thing, like Taylor - but I'm not threatened. Just another bad corner going to a revival in my eyes. And I own a Joe Haden jersey, heh.

I am very excited to see him in Pitt...even a broken down washed up Joe Haden is probably the 2nd best CB on the Steelers roster.....if he even bounces back slightly the Steelers are a better team than they were at the start of the week.

HACK

consulted? nope. told before it was going to happen? yea.

Didn't Hue just say that he wanted Haden on the team?

ed - i agree with the gist of your post.

I really like Joe and was glad he was on my team. But the fact is, the Joe of the last two years was not that Joe from before the contract extension. Maybe that statement is not entirely fair, but it is reality.

You put it well - his play declined these last couple of years. Whether it be due to injury, age, diminishing skills, etc. does not really matter at the end of the day. What matters is his contribution.

We do not know the whole story, though there is speculation going around here. Was he not going to be our #1? Who knows. Would not surprise me if it were true, would not surprise me if he was going to be the #3 CB. But I have no idea if that was the plan.

I am not saying I am OK with cutting him. I do not like the move. Was he the worst CB on the roster? I do not think so, so releasing him does not improve us as a team. Even if we replaced him with someone better, we are not a better team without him. that;s only true if he was at the bottom of the roster at CB.

We could have afforded him this year.

So, not happy with it, but I will come to terms with it. With Joe, we had to take the good w the bad. He was good with the bigger, physical WRs but not so much with the speedy ones. And he has gotten a little grabby. But I will not like seeing him in another uniform, especially the urine and sludge colors of Pittsburgh.

You better hope he bounces back, and I hope he does cause he's a class act, but according to PFF's grading everyone of your CBs had a better year then Joe did last year. PFF rated Joe the 88th best CB last year with a 46.0 rating.

They did try to trade him. Cutting him could have been a mutual decision, I see no reason to assume it was a one-sided blame required decision. Joe didn't want to take a pay cut and still thought he could play and make that money. The staff may have felt like 2015 and 2016 were 'fool me once' situations and felt comfortable with the CBs they have that they didn't have to pay 11.x mil.


And here I thought we were talking to each other not 'some'. Because I haven't said he's completely washed up. He could have a good season with the Steelers because they almost exclusively play zone.

I'm not judging the CBs more on their performance last year then this preseason.


...I wish Joe good health and good luck, except for twice a year.

he did say that, and it was followed by a huge "BUT whatever the front office wants to do"

I know. LOL

I was just politely trying to counter the notion that this was Hue and GW's idea.

Good to see you Hack.

Those ratings do not show his injury, furthermore, his ratings in years passed might have been higher, if not for the fact that he was a matchup CB with the other teams best WR.

There is no doubt Haden played well below previous form the last 2 years ... he was fighting through injury.

The questions this all hinges on - can he stay healthy? How close to his best form can Haden return to?

With the Browns lack of QB pressure the last 2 seasons Haden has been well and truly exposed - regardless of all else he has lost a step. But in the Pit defense with some QB pressure, a veteran CB who can read the game might really do well. We will see pretty soon.

gocha

But have you ever heard a coach say, "I can't wait to cut this guy"? Even Owners say the same thing about Coaches right before they fire them.

Yes, they are just being gentlemen. Sometimes ya gotta read between the lines.

Haden slowed down the last couple of seasons, he wasn't what he once was. Hopefully we will be better off without him. I think we will. I'm not mad they cut him nor offered him less to stay. About him going to Pitts? Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. I'm just hoping he does not have a good game when we see him in our season opener September 10th. You know?

He's already signed up, EO:

'Joe Haden signs with Steelers for 3 years, $27 million and will face Browns in opener'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ncart_big-photo

Definitely. He's looking to make a mark.... a dent even! lol

Traditionally, the Browns always lose their first regular game of the season (and many others, but that's another story), but wouldn't it be super sweet to beat them this time?!? What a freakin' statement it would be. POW.

Dream a little dream with me.

The plot thicken



Antonio Brown lobbied for the Steelers to sign Haden...one of the best receivers in the NFL, one who has played against Haden for 6 years, a person who knows Haden's strengths and weakness even better then anyone on the Browns coaching staff or Browns players says Haden has lots of top level play left.

Ask AJ Green if he like to have Haden on his team so he wouldn't have to deal with him every week.

This is going to turn out to be a BIG mistake for this organization...giving up on a two time Pro Bowler at the age of 28 is just insane...So what he was hurt, he isn't hurt now....we stuck with him though two years though injuries, and just now when he is finally healthy we are going to cut him?

Spin this any way you like, this is ineptness at a grand scale...it would be one thing if Haden was 31 or 32, but he is only 28...

When Haden has a Pro Bowl year and shuts down our passing game, the Browns Front Office is going to have a lot to answer for.

Oh and it gets better yet!



Also Sounds like Hue Jackson also thought Joe Haden looked like the Old Joe pre injury.

its obvious from the statements Jackson has made that he wasn't on board with us moving or cutting Joe.

Jackson was forced to eat a crap sammich and toe the company line on this. This move was done purely for money, again winning isn't the primary factor driving decisions here.

if it was up to Jackson Haden would still be a Brown. That much is perfectly clear.

I know he was injured, hence the ratings and that he needs to bounce back.

I think our DC just didn't like Joe. One of the first things he said in an interview is that Joe would have been cut by him last year. I guess he cut him this year now that he is the boss of the defense.

I just don't see who the hell we are putting out there for CB. I mean we pretty much only have garbage to put out there IMHO. It's really going to hurt our defense unless our pass rush is so extreme they never have time to throw it deep.

People keep showing stats of a player who played injured for a team who needed him as some example of how he will play healthy. That's meaningless. Some people will use things that have no relationship to a healthy Joe Haden to make an argument that doesn't exist.

pit I think the point they are making is that Joe hasn't played healthy in a long time and even when he starts the season healthy he seldom last the full season.

My gripe is there is no way they were not planning to do this from the very beginning so they should have done more to do something about it beforehand.