DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trumps Accomplishements so far

Those people had that option, didn't they.

Now, Mr. Genius, go ahead and tell me YOUR plan to evacuate 7 million people. Tell me the logistics.

So your answer is telling them to stay put Mr. Genius? That they don't have to leave? That it's safe? To lie to them?

Didn't say that, did I?

Go on now, tell us all how you evacuate 7 million people in 2 days. We're waiting.


Oh, and if you can, and then the storm doesn't hit where they thought, as often is the case, tell us your plans for covering your ass for the forced evacuation.

But, really, 1 thing at a time. Tell us YOUR plan, since you seem all knowing on this subject. Go on....

The Texas governor and Houston mayor were split on whether to evacuate with the governor being for it and the mayor against it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-gover...ions-1503880263

Texas Governor, Mayor Split Over Whether Houston Needed Evacuations

HOUSTON—A split between Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner over whether the metropolis should have been evacuated is raising questions about officials’ response to damaging floodwaters as a catastrophe continues to engulf the region.

Mr. Turner, a Democrat, and other local officials urged residents to stay in their homes as Hurricane Harvey, which has since downgraded to a tropical storm, approached Houston on Friday.

But at a Friday news conference, Gov. Abbott, a Republican, suggested otherwise. “Even if an evacuation order hasn’t been issued by your local official, if you’re in an area between Corpus Christi and Houston, you need to strongly consider evacuating.”

By Sunday, the storm had poured as much as 24 inches of rain in 24 hours onto areas that had been soaked the previous day. Five fatalities have been reported in the Houston area, according to the National Weather Service, though Mr. Turner said Sunday that only one in the city was confirmed so far as storm-related. More than 3,000 water rescues had been performed by Sunday afternoon, officials said.

The offices of Messrs. Turner and Abbott didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.

Families were stranded on rooftops, and parts of the city that residents say hadn’t flooded before were submerged.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Weather Prediction Center is now projecting that some areas could see as much as 50 inches of rain—around as much as the region gets in a year—up from an earlier estimate of up to 40 inches.

Looming over the decision not to evacuate was Houston’s experience with Hurricane Rita. More than 100 people died while evacuating as 2.5 million people fled that storm in 2005. Some of the stories were horrific—23 nursing home patients were killed as a bus evacuating them caught fire and exploded near Dallas. Houston hasn’t ordered evacuations ahead of hurricanes since then.

Retired Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honorè, who led the Department of Defense response to hurricanes Katrina and Rita, said that experience has made officials wary of ordering an evacuation. But, he said, officials should have evacuated residents of flood-prone neighborhoods as well as other vulnerable populations like the elderly and homeless.

“I’m not trying to be critical of the mayor and history will prove whether they guessed right or they guessed wrong,” he said. “But I do not believe we should leave people in [a] place we know is going to flood. It’s counterintuitive.”

He also said Gov. Abbott should immediately mobilize the entire National Guard. So far, 3,000 guardsmen have been activated. Mr. Honorè said the state would need closer to 15,000. “I’m very concerned because they don’t understand the scale they need for the response,” he said.

Mr. Turner defended his decision on Sunday, saying it would have been foolish to evacuate 6.5 million people from Houston and surrounding areas without knowing the course of the storm.

“There is no question in my mind, the best decision and the right decision was to tell people in Houston and Harris County don’t get on the road,” Mr. Turner said in a television interview.

“Now is not the time to second guess the decisions that were made,” Mr. Abbot said Sunday. He said he left several messages on Mr. Turner’s cellphone offering assistance, but hadn’t heard back.

Harris County Judge Ed Emmett, the area’s top emergency official and a Republican, bristled at criticism that the city should have evacuated.

“To suggest we should have evacuated two million people is an outrageous statement,” he said. “What we’re facing now is an effort to respond to a tragedy.…We’ve never seen water like this before.”

Gov. Abbott said at a press conference that there was good communication between state and local officials. “I have spoken with County Judge Emmett on a daily basis…to offer help the state of Texas can provide. We have moved beyond whether or not there should have been an evacuation and we are at the stage where we need to respond to the emergencies and necessities the people of Houston have.”

R. David Paulison, the former acting-director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency appointed by President George W. Bush after Hurricane Katrina, said the decision to call for an evacuation is among the most difficult.

Mr. Paulison said during Hurricane Katrina, FEMA urged Ray Nagin, the mayor of New Orleans at the time, to evacuate and was dismayed he didn’t. But during Katrina, the path of the storm was clear, Mr. Paulison said, which hasn’t been true for Harvey.

“Its tough to evacuate a big city like that,” he said. “I’m reluctant to second guess anyone at this point.”

At Houston’s George R. Brown Convention Center, which has been turned into a giant shelter, dozens of bedraggled people departed Metro buses and walked inside Sunday afternoon. Some had harrowing stories of escape, but were reluctant to criticize city officials.

Michael Williams, 36 years old, got there after the Metro bus he was riding got stuck in high water on Interstate 10 Saturday night, requiring all 20 passengers to be rescued. They spent the night at a Metro bus station before being brought to the convention center.

Mr. Williams, who works cleaning Minute Maid Park, the Houston Astros’ baseball stadium, had been trying to make a last-minute Wal-Mart run when he was caught in the waters. He said he had no criticism of officials for not calling a mandatory evacuation, saying flash flooding was a part of life in Houston.

“Houston floods fast. They’re doing all this construction but we still got no [storm] outlets,” he said. “But I ain’t mad. In a situation like this, you know the worst might happen.”

Yep, good ole President Trump, a man of the People.

You're the one running your mouth about how well they handled it while people are sitting on their roofs. And maybe everyone couldn't have gotten out, but many could have. Keep pointing the finger at me while it was the politicians of Houston that refused to warn their people. Yeah, that's the ticket.

I mean they were only saving the people from themselves, right? lmfao

Do you make stuff up all the time, or just today?

The politicians of Houston DID warn the citizens. So did the state politicians. Why do you make stuff up?


Still waiting for your plans to evacuate that many people, since in your mind it would've been so easy.


Here's a little lesson in life: Hindsight is 20/20, and right now, you're doing that - looking back.

Quit making crap up.

Tell us all how YOU would've evacuated that many people. Thanks in advance.

Does your wife have two grandchildren sitting in a town twenty miles east of Houston? Did she have to hear their parents say they were ready to leave but were just waiting for evacuation orders that never came?

Is your wife sitting in your house crying and worrying about them? No, she's not. They have the means and had the ability to leave.

It's kind of funny. In New Orleans before Katrina they told everyone to evacuate. they even provided transportation out of town. Why? Because they knew that while everyone may not get out, the more that did get out the less victims there would be in the path of Katrina. You? You can't see the wisdom of that. You say that since everyone couldn't get out, let's not even try by giving an evacuation order.

Maybe since you don't have family there hoping for the best, you should just STFU.

Thanks in advance.

Replying to your own posts is not social proof of being in the majority, lol. The President is on other News Outlets, CNN for sure, so you are putting out FAKE NEWS.

He is basically holding mini rallies, which is very effective leadership...

Maybe him and Sheriff Joe the great hero will jump in boats and go rescue some people. I know they won't stop to help any latinos but maybe they will get out to a white neighborhood.

Trump is calling the effort to rescue and react to Harvey a great success and of course he is taking credit and giving out kudos to the team below him...











I don't see the great response by anyone but locals and their neighbors. I don't see Trump or Sheriff joe in a boat, I hear fema talking but I don't see images of search and rescue teams flown in by the government... As a matter of fact, while Trump is holding mini rallies, I don't really see anything the Federal government is doing in any images.

Trump has a lot of gall calling this a 'great success' and proudly taking credit. the images tell a different story.

Are you sure those pictures weren't taken by liberal extremists?

BTW- Here I thought Republicans would love me giving grief to the Mayor of Houston. After all, he's a Democrat.

You know, I don't fault any of the local people. Mistakes have been made but the overwhelming neighbors helping neighbors vibe is very heartwarming. Kudos to the cajun navy showing up too! Heros one and all.

As for Trump, he has done little to help with anything. Now I'm not saying he won't go back and get congress to pony up a big ole check to rebuild, but I doubt it's more than a drop in the bucket like with Katrina. AND I absolutely can't stand anyone giving Trump kudos for his response to Harvey, that's ridiculous bordering on insane.

Some things should be bigger than politics, IMO. This is one of those things. I think the Mayor made a big mistake but that's water under the bridge at this point. The focus should be on bringing people to safety and helping out the huge numbers of people who have been displaced, lost their homes, etc.

I wish everyone in Houston the best. The 'Everything Else' thread would probably be more conducive to that..

I just know that an evacuation warning would have gotten a lot of people out of Houston. It would have lessened the amount of victims. I know that my wife wouldn't be sitting here worried about her grandchildren. I know that a lot of people managed to get out of New Orleans because of that evacuation warning.

This one hits home for me because of my wife and her grandchildren. I know they wouldn't be there right now had an evacuation warning been issued. So yes, I hold those responsible that didn't act.

Actually there is a thread in the EE forum. Since it hits so close to home with me, I've tried to avoid it until now. But some things get hard to contain.

I made a few posts in it the other day. I meant the encouragement and productive conversation would be better there (the bickering can stay here.)

My wife and I both have family there too. My family has been safe and dry through it all but my wife's family has been evacuated twice and we just found out this morning that her cousin's children (teens and preteens) had to wade for miles through chest high water in the middle of the night last night to escape possible death.

My prayers go out to your family OCD.

Your family will be in my thoughts as well Pit.

That's your plan?

Hey, you might want to re-read the entire thread. Or, at a minimum, my posts.

Also, Katrina might be a touch different, don't you think, since the city sits below sea level, and has a lake above it on the north. You know, little things like that.

What's your plan for evacuating 7 million?

Also, in NO, they told everyone to evacuate? How'd that work?

That's just a dumb statement. It does show 1 thing though, about you.

I've already answered your question. You simply don't like the answer. What if they only managed to get three million out? Then there would have been four million left in Houston instead of seven million. You don't think that would be better?

It seems your belief is if you can't get all seven million out, don't try to get out everyone you can? Don't try to lessen the amount of possible victims in the path of a hurricane? What a winner you are.

I'll remember this the next time your family is in harms way. I won't allow it to make one damn bit of difference in attacking you and yours. Just remember this one arch.

Okay.

The fact remains that people were free to heed the forecasters if they so chose.

And by the way, I wasn't attacking you, yours, or anyone else.

Again, read all of my posts in this thread. It might enlighten you a bit.

I've been reading. I don't feel enlightened. Sitting on your hands without trying to get as many people as you can out of harms way as you can isn't the proper reaction no matter how you wish to spin it. Every time there's a natural disaster local government officials give out an evacuation order for the safety of their citizens. Making excuses why a mayor doesn't do that doesn't enlighten anyone.

My bad. What I've been referencing, in regards to my posts, well, I actually posted it in the "Hurricane Season is here...." thread.

Here's my first post about Harvey:

My point is, it's the responsibility of your local leaders to send out evacuation warnings. That's the protocol that's always been the standard. That's the standard warning people are waiting for.

Now if you're saying from this moment forward maybe we should ignore our politicians and depend more on meteorologists, I believe people should.

But revisionist history regarding Houston doesn't make sense to me.

Correct... Meteorologists nailed it and knew this storm was going to dump a bunch of rain in the Houston area. They knew it was going to stay in the area for days. And they knew this several days before landfall even before Harvey was a cat 3 hurricane! They could have gotten the people in the low lying areas out easily in advance with no issues if they would have listened to the science and started mandatory evacuations for people in the 100 yr flood plain. But noooooo, shelter in place. Idiotic civil leadership. Pfft

Okay.

And with the warnings given, where does personal responsibility come into play in your mind?

Edited to add this: Isn't it a 2 way street?

President Trump's Budget Would Cut Hundreds of Millions From Disaster Relief Programs











Ian Salisbury



Aug 28, 2017







When President Trump released his proposed budget earlier this year, it included cuts across the board — including hundreds of millions from programs that help Americans cope with disasters like Hurricane Harvey.

Throughout last fall's election, President Trump called for cutting billions in waste out of Washington. The White House's proposed fiscal 2018 budget, released this past May, attempts to make good on those promises. Hefty cuts are proposed for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), the agency charged with overseeing the government's response to natural disasters, as well as the National Weather Service and the government's flood insurance programs.


Here's specifically what the Trump budget proposes:

•$667 million from FEMA targeting grants that help state and local governments prepare for natural disasters and other emergencies like terrorist attacks. The budget would also require 25% cost matching for preparedness grants. Modeled on FEMA's existing disaster recovery grants, the provision is designed to ensure state and local governments pick up part of the tab when the federal government doles out money.

•$62 million from the National Weather Service, or about 6% of its 2017 budget. The proposed cuts include $5 million the agency plans to spend updating its weather models and another $5 million on experimental forecasts aimed at allowing it to predict changing weather 30 days in the future instead of the current 16 days.
•$190 million for the National Flood Insurance Program to update maps detailing which areas of the U.S. are flood prone, which can affect flood insurance premiums and real estate development in coastal areas.

For what it's worth, President Obama also faced criticism for efforts to push disaster rebuilding costs back on to states and towns. And some long-time FEMA critics, pointing to what they have called wasteful spending following storms like hurricanes Katrina and Sandy, point out the agency's budget has steadily increased since it was created in the late 1970s, reaching more than $10 billion a year by the 2010s.


Still, it can be difficult if not impossible for Washington politicians to turn away federal money—at least when it's their own constituents who are in need. Texas's Republican Senators Ted Cruz and John Cornyn, who both voted against disaster funding for New York and New Jersey in the wake of 2012's Superstorm Sandy, have already called on Trump to provide aid to their home state.

Congress has until Oct. 1, when the 2018 fiscal year begins, to pass a spending bill for the coming year, which may include—or not—any of the White House's various proposals. With Trump and Congress facing off on his proposed border wall and other issues, many expect a fight.

They were talking to one of the elected officials about the last time they were told to evacuate and they said that they were very specific about who was to evacuate and approximately 10 times that many people decided to get out making a horrible mess of the roads and about 150 people died in traffic accidents and heat related incidents.

The meteorologists were pretty accurate in what was going to happen even noting that there may be a second landfall close to La/Tx border. From the facebook live streams that I saw when the cane was approaching to the stories about complete infrastructure failing, people waiting for hours to get dispatched to 911, it is really a bad situation. and then I see on my online scanner this morning that Harris county was in Dead Body pickup mode this morning, it isn't getting better.

And we had a meeting this morning at work about the upcoming cost increases/shortages to commodities and impacts.

And NHC started this morning on Irma which should be around Puerto Rico in about 7-10 days as a major hurricane looking at the southeast/gulf

So your reasoning is that it's the peoples fault that they shouldn't follow the process of protocol that has been established across this country for decades now?

I understand and expect personal responsibility, but blame shifting certainly doesn't represent what you're preaching here.

Okay. Yeah, I'm blame shifting. Right. Got it.

Thanks for the enlightening post. What was your plan for evacuation again?

Oh, yeah, it's the gov't. fault.

Talk about blame shifting. Wow.

I feel you are probably posting from emotion, and that's fine.

Go on, make up more things about me. I'll be done for now.

My point was that the more people you get out, the fewer victims that are there. That you at least try and remove everyone you can. Your solution? Don't even try. Just throw your hands up in the air and do nothing.

We both know that evacuation warnings from government has always been the standard operating procedure for the people to be warned to evacuate. Yet you say this.



Oh, and BTW- thanks for your concern about my family and your prayers. They were greatly appreciated. Oh, never mind.

Correct. If I'm not mistaken, the gov. urged evacuation, not? Are you suggesting it is the gov't. responsibility to evacuate people? That's where my "personal responsibility" comment comes in. And yup, I know the mayor didn't order it.



Weird. I wasn't aware that I needed to inform you.

I pray for a lot of things, and people, and situations. Your wifes kids were in my prayers last night, as well as all of the people affected. Sorry I forgot to inform you.

I also pray for gm, and ire, and many others on here as well. I guess I should tell them.

anyways,

speaking of trump' "accomplishments", looks like he failed to secure a deal with russia for a trump tower during the campaign season.

anybody keeping up with the story? boy oh boy...

So I saw yesterday that Houston has had (3) 500 year floods in the last 3 years.

Yeah, it probably wouldn't hurt.

They probably don't watch a channel that tells them or they think it's just another one in a huge list of coincidences.

Yes I seen it. I also noticed that FINALLY this morning the military is on it's way/active in the hurricane area... what are they, 5 days in?

Cajuns showed up in boats in less than 24 hours. I guess Trump and Ben Carson were taking a nap. But hey, better late than never.

And Meanwhile in DC...http:
//www.cnn.com/2017/08/29/politics/inspector-general-gsa-hotel-lease-review/index.html

The General Services Administration's Office of Inspector General is now undertaking a formal review of how the agency has handled President Donald Trump's Washington hotel lease.

"GSA's Office of Inspector General (OIG) is evaluating GSA's management and administration of the ground lease for the Old Post Office Building," the agency's spokeswoman Pamela Dixon told CNN on Tuesday.

The Government Accountability Office is also conducting a review of GSA's "outleasing program," which covers the Trump hotel lease.
"Our review will be looking generally at the GSA outleasing program. We expect that it will cover a wide range of issues and leases," explained GAO spokeswoman Jennifer Ashley in a statement to CNN Wednesday. "But the work is not focused on any one lease."

Of all the ethical and legal land mines posed by Trump's financial holdings, none has posed more uproar than the hotel he opened in the Old Post Office in Washington -- just blocks away from the White House and a regular watering hole for Cabinet members, lobbyists and the President himself.

Trump's DC hotel is the new legal hot spot in town
The Trump Organization leased the property from GSA in 2013, but a clause in the lease states that no "elected official of the government ... shall be admitted to any share or part of this Lease, or to any benefit that may arise therefrom," leading some outside ethics watchdogs to call foul.

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington and American Oversight have previously sued for GSA lease documents and called for the GSA IG to investigate the hotel lease -- to no avail, until now.

"The terms of the GSA's lease with the Trump Organization specifically forbid any elected official from benefiting from this property and no one -- not even the President -- is above the law, "American Oversight senior adviser Melanie Sloan said in a statement Tuesday. "We're glad the GSA's Inspector General is taking a long-overdue look at the murky circumstances surrounding this lease."

Federal News Radio first reported the inspector general's evaluation.
Government says Trump hotel lease is OK, despite ethics concerns
The scope of the IG's investigation is not entirely clear and requests for additional information were not immediately returned.

The GSA concluded in March that the Trump organization was in compliance with the lease requirements, despite red flags from ethics experts.

Before Trump was sworn in, he transferred operational control of his vast business holdings to his sons and a Trump Organization executive, but he is the beneficiary of the trust that was established.

Drip....Drip...Drip