DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns 2017 Statistical Expectations Offense and Defense

Two different things. One is about building a team long term and the other is about winning games in the short term.



You don't need to make excuses for what makes sense. Some people might not want to hear what makes sense, but they won't be convinced anyway, so wasting a lot of time trying to explain it is worthless.

Drafting a player in the first round only to try to fit a square peg into a round hole doesn't make sense. Neither does making excuses for it.

Drafting the best player available is common sense. Usually the front office decides that.

Putting your best 11 on the field is common sense. Usually the coach does that.

Claiming that common sense is an excuse isn't common sense. Usually some random guy that thinks he's smarter than the coach and the front office does that.

And we go through coaches like babies go through diapers. Maybe the fans ae on to something?

The fans and their picket signs are one of the reasons that we go through coaches like water. Most of them think they are jr Belichicks. Which is funny because we tried to run him out of town too for benching Bernie.

pit, two thoughts. First their charts may have had peppers as bpa and a lot of experts like to draft by that and not need. Second, I wonder if his selection might reflect a lack of confidence that kindred could be the guy at ss. I think kindred has played very well but they may not have expected that and were drafting peppers to play ss.

I feel if they didn't draft Peppers to play SS/LB they were very stupid. It's a first round pick, not some later project pick. I haven't seen one ounce of evidence to suggest Peppers is capable of playing FS.

I do think that they drafted him to play inside the box.

I also think that after training camp, the coaches decided that the best way to get their best 11 guys on the field this year was to play him at FS.

Gee thanks. LOL

Of course I would admit I was wrong. I try and speak the truth. If I am wrong, I admit it.

I am curious as to what your interpretation of my thoughts on Peppers are, though. I'm not sure if you are reading me correctly.

I gotta believe this will be fixed this off season. We went hard after Jefferson and we were on Hooker.

No idea who's available in Free Agency this year, but I'd think we'd go after a FS again. That would be a huge fix for the back end.

Along with getting Wilson back and still attacking CB.

Who watches Florida State? Is this Derwin James Kat a FS?

While some are asking for people to be fired, I think for the most part people are simply trying to evaluate where we are and how we got here.

I'm certainly not asking for anyone to be fired. However, I do have some major concerns. I'm not sure I trust their QB evaluations. It's too early to call Kizer either a bust or a success. So going into next years draft there's still a huge question mark there. Saying Wentz wasn't a top 20 QB was certainly a mistake, bigly.

There may be, I said "may be" a situation where the FO and coaching staff have a disconnect. I don't believe any of us know one way or the other about that for sure. If the QB situation doesn't get much better, that 9-7 you speak of isn't going to happen. And I think it's reasonable that after year three, it should be a reasonable expectation that people feel that the QB situation should have been resolved, especially since we have drafted so high, or had the opportunity more than once to settle it.

I don't believe that's being too critical or having too high of expectations. Yes, the jury is still out but it's going to take a real leap in season three for anyone to consider this plan being on the road to success.

Well, we don't totally agree. lol (Imagine that!)

I think it's too early to write Kizer off. You yourself have always said that players progress in their second and third years, so we really don't know what Kizers ceiling can be.

Yet, at the same time, I agree with you that they need to draft a QB. And they need to draft him high in the draft. The reason for that, IMO, is that until you KNOW you have your QB, you need a QB. And right now we certainly do not know that we have our QB.

+1
This is EXACTLY where we are - even with some significant progress from Kizer between now and the end of the year.

I'm not averse to the idea of taking a QB 1st Overall and making him sit behind Kizer all of next year, and then IF he can take the job from Kizer after that, let him start.

If nothing else, I think that Kizer can grow into being "good enough" to where we don't have to panic about our QB position while we work on upgrading to the point where we have a QB in the Top 15.

Oh we don't have to take one top 15. Even though refusing to do that has gotten us where we are now.

Exactly my opinion as well. The worse thing that happens is that you wind up with two and it that case, you can trade the second one for a bundle or have the best back-up for a while.

The Panthers took Cam Newton the year after they took Jimmy Clausen in the second round. Imagine passing on a player like Cam Newton because "we don't know what we have"?

The only guy who might be "Cam Newton" and be able to take over a game in this draft is Jackson. Except Lamar isn't built like a tank, but is humble.

Rosen is "Jay Cutler" with similar, but a little less arm talent and apparently more ego.

Mayfield is "Manziel" with a little less crazy (I think, may be close)

Darnold is more or less Kizer and needs more time in college.


We've tried the Manziel route, and we still have Kizer. "Cutler" might be an improvement on the field, but not really a 1-1 guy and I'd rather not due to the stuff that comes with it. Apparently the locker room has enough issues already.

I'd love getting Jackson later. But, I think Jackson will meet my expectations and blow teams away in the film room, on the whiteboard, and in interviews and will climb back up to the top of the draft board come April.

People spewed this same crap a couple of years ago.

Jackson is not Cam Newton. I'm still trying to figure out if he is Russell Wilson or Vince Young, but I know for sure he isn't Cam Newton.

He’s better.

I don't agree with this. At the moment, I would take Mayfield over any of the other quarterbacks in the draft. Even at #1. We do that and we have have our franchise quarterback for the next 10-15 years.

Jackson is a Petrino QB, right? How many NFL QB's has Petrino spit out?

I guess the only way that remotely matters to me is if there’s a coach who has a history of sending in Heisman caliber qb’s into the league year after year.

And...... so?

Which is sad, because I really like what the kid does on the field.

He also just got suspended for flipping off the other team as well.

I just don't think we'll pull the trigger on an immature QB on such a young team. Not after the Johnny Football mistake.

How is Peppers a good tackler? He lowers his eyes and throws his body. He constantly takes bad angles, and puts himself out of position

He does not have the faintest idea on what tackling is. He Hits he does not Tackle.

You had the same arguments on Justin Gilbert and a number of other players, Hardesty, the famous WR duo and the one who never owned them was you.

I remember have the same position on TJ Ward, and I owned it. But TJ from the moment he started he was improving on his habits, Peppers still looks like a fool on many plays.

Peppers is the worst player on the team... and I will gladly heat my hat on this one...

And by the way, for a player who is/was known for having football awareness problems and lack of instincts, playing with space in front of him, and having some time, is actually better than playing closer to the LOS. He also lacks discipline.

He could be a LB, but he's undersized...

A few things about that.

He looks short - unless all the cops were really tall.

I'm glad he's white - as it appeared all the cops were white. That saves us from the "oh, look what they did to a black guy" thing.

Run from the cops? Get treated like he did.

He is on the short side. But I'm still taking him #1. At the moment...

And some will get spewed next year, too. Some of it ends up being right. Some of it doesn't.

A bunch. Most of which stuck around in the league because they were fundamentally sound despite being physically limited. Jackson isn't physically limited.

Jackson is pre-injury RG3, minus the savior complex, plus the ability to pass from the pocket and make progressions.

Random interesting fact that I just came across. Hue Jackson was Bobby Petrino's OC when Petrino was HC of the Falcons.

By Cam Newton I just meant a franchise QB.