DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns acquire Sammie Coates from Steelers

You mean he didn't look as good when he was injured as he did when he was healthy? Imagine that!

We'll see how he looks now that he's finally healthy. Only now that he's healthy, he'll be wearing a Steelers uniform.

We saw it already in preseason.

Either he's still not healthy, or that is as good as it's gonna get. Either way, he's nothing close to what he used to be.

You saw it in pre season? Seriously? I'm glad pre season counts. It appears a much better team than we are couldn't wait to scoop him up. He was an the market for all of 30 minutes before he could be signed.

Let's see how good your vision was.

U clearly know nothing about Pit's secondary ... NOTHING ... its as bad or worse than ours ...

There teams better but its not because of their secondary, thats for SURE ...

I don't think it is all that clear. The only thing clear is you spouting off again.

FYI: Haden had offers from multiple teams according to reports.

Let me guess.........they are all lies?

Whats that got to do with the price of tea in china ... go ahead and join this convo ... Oh wait .. you'd rather just spout irrelivent crap like your boy Pit ...

I said Pitt's secondary STUNK ... u disagree? .. thats not clear to u ... i mean even a novice at talent evaluation like me can see it (along with the rest of the NFL) so how can an experienced talent evaluator like U not be able to see it ... I mean come on Vers, I couldn't even carry your jock when it comes to talent evaluating ... so how can U not see it ...

go ahead ... disagree with me about the quality of Pitt's secondary .. it'd just prove ONCE AGAIN that proving your point is more important than being truthful and honest ...

Thats all i said ... so I'm not quite sure what the crap u brought up has to do with how good Pitts secondary is ...

*shrugs*

Now gets back to your agenda of whining about cutting Haden and Greco and trading Cam .. and please please don't forget to tell us all how stupid we are every other post ... the way your carrying on you'd think we just cut Deon Sanders and Orlando Pace and traded Anthony Munoz ...

And lets not forget the move that got this ball rolling .... BO BEING AXED CAUSE HE STINKS!!!!

I am not sure what you are talking about.

I have already said that the Steeler's secondary sucked. Several times.

I am saying that you unfairly blasted Pit. Haden was contacted by several teams, not just by Pittsburgh.

I am also saying that our secondary sucks. Are you saying it doesn't?

You can mock me all you want, but it is my opinion that we are not a better team by cutting Haden and Greco and by trading Cam.

Y'all can rip my opinions all you want. I'm a hypocrite and I have an agenda. But, you guys are all free from such things. LOL

It doesn't take exceptional vision such as mine to see #23 repeatedly caught flat footed and struggling to keep up with his WR. His technique and form were simply not there. To be having those issues in preseason of all games I think to the cautious and prudent man are causes for concern.

I have a different take on Haden .
He had not once every experienced a playoff game as a Brown or really played in a meaningful game
I don't care how much money you earn every player wants to be part of a team when talking about the post season
How many rebuilds and coaches did Haden go through ?
Too many
Just because his level of play went south as a Brown it does not mean that trend will follow suit as a Steeler.
He know expectations are night and day between the Steelers and Browns
Playing for a playoff team might energize Haden
Losing every year can impact a players will to be elite

Just a quick chime in on Pitts secondary....It was not good....I think it might be good.

Half of the DB's on the roster have now been replaced from last year. If Haden is even half of who he is was when he was one of the best in the league....he is still better than Ross Cockrell who was traded to the Giants.

Cockrell actually played ok last year...but not consistent enough

If Haden rebounds at all... They have him lined up opposite 1st round corner Artie Burns. As a rookie last year he was easily the best corner on the team...and has had a great camp going up against Antonio Brown every day. Burns went out with a small injury for a few days and Brown was torching every corner he went against....He beat Cockrell pretty badly for a TD then ran over to Burns and said "We need you back boy....this is way to easy now"

That leaves last years 2nd rounder Sean Davis and veteran 2nd round pick Mike Mitchell at the safeties....big, strong, can hit and can run.

the weakest link in the secondary now is safety depth, with Robert Golden...but hopefully newly acquired Wilcox from Tampa will strengthen that.

Really happy with what they have seen of two new rookies Sutton, and Allen...and both made the 53...Sutton went to IR with a hammy but I expect him back this season

Final real name to watch is Hilton. Kid played his rear off this camp after spending time on a few practice squads...but the kid can play...was the camp darling...and I believe it appears he has beat out long time William Gay for the nickel spot. Gay is only still on the roster because he is the smart vet leader...and plays both corner and FS.....but his days are short.

He went from the #3 corner, to just hanging on the roster after all the turnover.

All that being said...they look good and improved on paper....we will see what happens on the field and will have a better idea of the 2017 Steelers secondary by Thanksgiving.

HACK

Thanks for the analysis.

I am saying that you unfairly blasted Pit. Haden was contacted by several teams, not just by Pittsburgh.

Pit got exactly what he deserved from me ... playing stupid ass word games like u do .. he said that Haden went to a "better team" ... well DUH .. but there much better than us cause of there O not there D ... so thats a very misleading statement and he knows exactly what he was doing ... he KNOWS there secondary was either as bad, slightly worse or slightly better than ours last year so he goes to the bigger picture witch is misleading and full of FALSE IMPLICATIONS ....

If he wants to play, I've got no problem batting him around a little bit like the kitten does with the yarn ... *L* ...

Pitts a big boy ... this is friendly banter for us lately ...

I am also saying that our secondary sucks. Are you saying it doesn't?

Thats not even close to what i said .. NOT EVEN CLOSE ... u just keep extrapolating things out cause your so good at it ..

You can mock me all you want, but it is my opinion that we are not a better team by cutting Haden and Greco and by trading Cam.

Mock u? .. not for those opinions .. i agree with u on Haden and Greco ... not happy about those cuts, they make no sense to me .. NONE .. STUPID was my initial reaction to them getting cut ... well after the disbelief ... *L* ...

we got a 5th round pick for Cam who STINKS ... I'm VERY GOOD with that even if it means we went from the 8th layer of the bottom of the barrel to the 9th level of the bottom of the barrel ... the drop off between him and an unknown isn't that much at all being my point!!!

Y'all can rip my opinions all you want.

Why would we rip the opinions of the best talent evaluator this boards ever seen? ...

Thanks Hack ... appreciatte the input ...

My bro's a stiler fan and he's told me pretty much verbatim what u just said ...

Please come back around turkey day and let us know your thoughts on Haden ... will be interested in your take then ...

I know this wasn't the point of your email, but I'm not sure how Haden is going to help in terms of putting someone against Brown in practice. Haden got torched by Brown (and other speedy WRs). That's not the guy's strength. He has been very good against not-so-speedy #1's (AJ Green being the perfect example).

If the Steeler's are as high on Artie Burns as you are, then Haden should be going into a perfect situation. He'll be able to be deployed with a little more strategy than he was here.

Yeah Diam, he's so bad that he only received a 9mil. contract.

But that's all a crappy CB deserves, chump change. lmao

Several teams offering huge contracts.

But hey, you and some FO boot lickers know a lot more than those NFL FO's.

Yeah, three year 27 mil. contract. No need to be anal arch.

It's basically a one year $7 million contract with options for years two and three.

Not bad for a guy who just got cut from a team coming off of a 1 and 15 record.

I wasn't.

Now, you tell me, in the nfl, are contracts guaranteed?

I agree, but it's also not like they broke the bank to sign him. In terms of guaranteed money, he's like the 50th highest paid corner.

https://overthecap.com/contracts

No. One side of the contract has to honor it while the other side doesn't.

So isn't that the same for every NFL player? So are we supposed to gauge every NFL players value by their contract or none of them?

I'd say none of them.

Judge them by what is guaranteed. That's just me.

Yes, that's the only thing that matters.

It's definitely not what Pit is making it out to be to support a losing argument.

The argument will be decided by the play on the field.

If you believe that trying to compare a healthy Haden to the play of an injured Haden the past couple of years, I'd say you are the one appearing to support a weak argument.

Wasn't Haden healthy all through camp and preseason? He was getting destroyed in games.

The Steelers are hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. Hoping a change of scenery can get Haden going again. Considering the state of their secondary I think its a reasonable gamble. But if you watch him on the field he's really not good.

I'm actually pulling for him. I like Haden and hope he turns it around. I think the odds are long though.

Personally, I hope Joe haden can lead the Browns to a win for the first time in 2 or 3 years.

Well, if it's a close game we know Joe will give up the big play.

He had an uncanny ability to give up the big play at the worst possible time.

I actually think you should be more concerned with the state of our secondary, not theirs.

the only gripe I have over the moves at corner is the fact that they have elevated McCourty to starter ahead of BBC.

Yeah, the fact that I think letting Haden go was a mistake makes me a Steelers fan.



I hate when a player expects his team to honor a contract.



Often times I don't really say much about what fans say. But I do expect our FO to know more than our fans.



Says the guy we always know will put the best spin on anything this FO does.

I think our secondary is one of the weakest units on the team. I thought that before and after the Haden transaction. I think Hadens departure has the chance to benefit a younger guy or guys by getting more playing time. We can see if there is a guy on the team that can be a long term solution there. Hadens play was so awful it's hard to envision he had a long term future here.

Have I demonstrated the appropriate amount of concern?

Being critical of Haden relative to his contract and potential is very different from wanting him off the team.

Haden drove people nuts because he could have solidly been in the running for best CB in the NFL, but just never seem to nail down the consistency and technique to make that happen. Watching him play was maddening, not because he was bad needed to be cut, but because he should have been so much better.

Playing younger players sometimes has positive results. But to me it goes against the grain of saying you want to win now.

To me the best option is shore up the position and our secondary before you start releasing players that are better than the ones you put on the field.

I have to wonder what excuse fans will use when Haden plays better this year than some of our starters?

This is the crux of the debate. I think you could also argue that Haden is worse than the guys that will take the field.

Ah yes , the old saying is oh so true : Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ! lo

I think the argument the cutting Haden makes us worse this year is a valid argument. Not sure if it is true but it is definitely an argument that could be won.

However, I think the argument that keeping Haden this year makes us worse next year is just as valid.

Same with Greco on both accounts.

So now comes the balance of winning this year vs winning in the future. A balance every team needs to look at, not just the Browns. The Patriots and steelers are good teams so winning now is more important than winning in the future, but they need to be aware of planning for the future.

For the Browns, winning in the future is more important than winning this year, though we want to win now and win as many games as we can, we don't want to compromise the development of young players who will help us in the future.

Just my 2 cents

They'll both play a ton.