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I think this article might give non Browns fans the wrong idea about our team in some respects, specifically regarding McGinest, Bentley, Quinn, and basically the whole QB situation.

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I rarely like the idea of firing a coach mid-season, it looks cheap. But if we start 1-5 (I refuse to believe it, at this point), it would depend on how we arrived at that record.

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Pretty easily... Afterall, what is Romeo's record against division opponents going into this year?? And we start out the season playing 3 out of the first Five games against the div. one of which to include New England... The more I look at it, I actually expect 1-5 for a start...

All the talk from our bright board members is about firing RAC if the Browns don't do well this year.

I find this talk to be interesting, disturbing, and somewhat repulsive.

All the national guys who are making predictions have the Browns at the bottom or near the bottom of the entire NFL. They are making these predictions BEFORE the season.

A logical mind would deduce that the Browns do not have enough talent and/or experience to be very competitive. Yet, the majority of posters are already calling for RAC to be fired and no one but me is questioning the guy who brought in the talent. Well, at least no one who is willing to speak his mind is questioning Savage.

The key phrase in all these predictions and talks of firing people is --------- BEFORE the season.

Consider these two factors:

The prognosticators are picking the Browns to play poorly based on their lack of talent and experience.

Those board members who are already talking about RAC being fired obviously aren't expecting much success this year.

One could then reach a conclusion that the real problem isn't the coaching, but the guy who is providing the talent to the coach.

However, that is a scary thought for most to accept. That would mean the Browns are even further behind then they thought. It would mean that the Browns face many more years of rebuilding. It would mean perhaps having to blow things up again. And that is too difficult to accept, so the majority turns a blind eye to the situation and places blame on other people. Thus far, it's been Dilfer, Mo, Charlie, and RAC.

After RAC and Charlie are canned, who are you guys going to blame next? You're running out of options. Actually, Dilfer and Charlie were brought in by Savage, but somehow, they aren't attached to him.

Now.........let me make this very clear. I am not advocating canning Savage. I think he has done some good things and some bad things. Probably more bad than good, but that's not the point. I just think that all of the guys in the NFL know about football and if you give them enough time.......they gotta win eventually.

I do not think Savage is anywheres near the genius that most of you make him out to be. However, I want him to see this thing through because sooner or later, he will probably get it done.

You might be asking yourself why I made this post if I don't want Savage fired? The reason is that I am sick of all the blame and responsibility being put at RAC's feet. I feel he is being unfairly evaluated. I think he is taking the brunt of the blame for another's shortcomings. And you know what........of all the people on this board, I was the who was the most vocal against bringing RAC in here. I did NOT want him as our head coach and I was consistently being chastised for that opinion. However, I did say then........that I would be the one defending him when you all turned on him.

There are two reasons I bring this up.
1] I want you to chew on how wrong you were...or are......depending on how you look at it. *L*

2] The main reason is that I think RAC needs to given the talent to have a legitimate shot at competing before we throw him to the curb. I think that both Savage and RAC need time to do their jobs. I also think that the constant changing of the guard is the biggest reason [other than having terrible ownership] as to why the Browns are perennial losers.

It's time to stop the madness.

Bueno post, matey! No shocks here. If it doesn't come together, 500 could be a reach. Winning is contagious; my unspoken dream is we kindle and catch fire like the Kardiac Kids when we expected to win (somehow) every game. We could be much better, especially without some of the worthless secondary and shamelessly vanilla D. Just keeping them OFF the field helps your chances.
Meanwhile, go Browns! And may the Elf be with you!

I agree with you, but I'm nowhere near as harsh toward Savage as you are (unless your apparent Savage bashing is really just RAC defending, then I can understand). I think your expectations for him are beyond out of whack if you expect him to have turned it around by now.


Are we talent deficient? Abso-freakin-lutely. Is there much more that Phil could have done? Probably, and with 20/20 Hindsight it is easy to nitpick. There was no way to fix it all, bringing in players like Coleman or Fisk and that sort of signing were required at the time because there wasn't anything better available and what was already here was worse.

Most folks just don't get that not every signing we make is going to be a long-term solution. Even things like Baxter make sense in that he was the best CB on the market and we were in the market for one. Trading Dilfer... Dilfer wanted out, what are ya gonna do... force him to stay? No, you get what you can... and sometimes you're just happy if you can get a can of beans.

It is a 53 man roster. That works out to 18 new players per year for the last three offseasons. To expect someone to process that magnitude of a roster turnover and get them all right the first time is insanely unrealistic. The vast mojority of what has been brought in has been role players and short term fixes...because that is what the majority of any roster is because once you get a team to a certain level, it is just constant reloading and hoping that some cream continues to rise to the top. Lastly.. Life Happens. Things like Dilfer and Braylon and whatever are going to happen. None of this happens in some scientifically controlled vacuum. They are people with lives and personalities... and despite every measure you might possibly consider to the contrary, undesired things are still going to happen and there isn't a damned thing that anyone can do about it.

I agree that RAC is getting the shaft, big time, if he is canned.
I laugh at any notion that Phil is screwing up the works.... but I agree that there is still more work to be done; and that'll always be the case.

It's time to stop the madness.

What madness? I honestly don't recall anyone on here calling for RAC's head. I have seen plenty, including myself, say that he is on thin ice and that a season simliar to last year's could spell his demise. But that isn't condemning him to the scrap heap. That's just being realistic.

No matter what anyone on here says the decision on the HC position ultimately rests in Phil's and Randy's hands. Quite a few happen to believe that those two will not likely tolerate another 4-12 season or the like. And your trusted "National Media" pretty much agree with that assessment.

No one wants RAC fired. We all want him to succeed. Because that means the Browns will be doing better and (hopefully) winning. Some do doubt RAC's abilities as a HC. Those concerns are no less valid than yours. I'd like to think the all doubts will be erased by the end of the season. The answers wiil start coming in September. I can't wait.

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No matter what anyone on here says the decision on the HC position ultimately rests in Phil's and Randy's hands.

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RAC should find that comforting.

2001-
Gerrard Warren... Yes he started, but did you call him a "quality starter"?

Anthony Henry... An average DB. Nothing more.

2002-
Andra Davis... Been good for the Browns, I won't argue that one.

2003-
Faine- Did nothing in Cleveland. Just because he had success in New Orleans last year, doesn't mean you can consider him a success for the Browns.

Thompson and Crocker.... Not starters on probably 30 of 32 teams in the NFL.

Pontbriand- Been a good long snapper, but are you going to give Butch alot of credit for getting lucky and getting a good LONGSNAPPER?

2004-
Sean Jones and KW2... I'll give you both of those.

Well, honestly, if he doesn't find it more comforting than leaving a decision like that to the fans then I'd have to wonder why he wants the job.

You may not like Phil (I can't really tell, lately) and I know you hate Randy but theoretically they know more about the inner workings of the team than we do. Hence, they should be able to make a better decision regarding RAC's abilities than we can. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if that's true or not.

Actually, Randy is influenced by what the fans say. You can take that one to the bank.

Actually, Randy is influenced by what the fans say.

And this does not surprise me. We do pay the freight, so to speak. But in the end if the combined judgements of Phil and Randy are swayed more than a smidgen (smidgen = 5% on a 100% scale) by our opinions (on personnel) then somebody else needs to be running the team.

However, they can listen totally when I suggest lowering the price of foods and beverages at the game......

You can't be serious. GW was an early first round pick and yes he is a starter in this league he wasn't worth it.

Thompson? He was a huge reach and isn't very good as a backup, please.

Faine? sure he is starting, and in fact I think he actually finished last season without being on IR.

I sure think Frye fits into your criteria if you are putting up GW, Faine and Thompson up there. At least we didn't waste a first rounder on him.

2005 was a complete bust on second day picks and as of now Braylon and Pool both look like huge reaches. 2006 Brought us Wimbley (led the team in sacks), DQ ( 93 tackles in 13 games) Wilson ( who is expected to compete for the 2 or 3 reciever), Williams ( a 4th rounder who played more at LB than anyone but the starters), Harrison and Vickers ( projected starting FB and 3rd down back) and Hamilton ( as of now are primary backup safety at both positions). Not to mention Minter who he got for a 5th because of injury (he had a second round grade on many boards).

Granted our 2006 picks are only going into their second year but they look much more promising then any of those earlier drafts after just one year.

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Show me where #3 overall pick B Edwards has done anything more significant than #3 overall pick GW?

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Next time you should read the whole post.

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Compare Thompson to Poole. Two guys with "potential" that have yet to be dominant players.

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Again, read the whole post. There is a difference between the two. Pool is just entering his third year, Thompson has sucked now for how many?

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Let's not pretend he suddenly got good last year Savage dumped a quality starter to move up ten slots. With the chaos we suffered at center last year it turned out to be huge.

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Faine was not a quality starter here. If he was we wouldn't have brought in Bentley for such a huge salary (under the old salary cap rules). That made the undersized Faine not needed. We did have a problem do to injuries but we ended up better with Hank over Faine. If we kept Faine and didn't move up in the 2nd, who would we have to play ILB? Thompson?

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Savage must disagree with you as it's obvious that Quinn was drafted to start for us. Do you really think he'll be on the roster in Sept 2008?

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Yes I do unless he is trded for something of worth. QB wasn't the priority bur Savage felt Quinn was good enough to possibly be a franchise QB. Frye will make a very capable backup in this league at a position that is very important to have depth.

Interesting. I think id rather have DQ than Faine, personally.

On the QB bit. I know theres a lot of debate on who should start. Does anyone REALLY...REALLY...think we're better or worse off with ANY of our 3 QBs? I really dont.

Quinn has the most upside, but he's the farthest behind. I think we have 3 QBs that to this point are on the same level.

On Brodney Pool. Sean Jones, sparked his 3rd year to become the best player on the defense. Pool is there now. They both started a little bit behind the 8-ball (jones injury, pool leaving early). We've made our move to give Pool the chance. And we have backup safeties that are serviceable, in case pool flops. with Justin Hamilton potentially being a huge surprise.

Comparing GW to BE. BE just has maturity problems. GW was lazy. No comparison. BE will be better.

Gift Horse. In your scrap picks. Dont write off McMillan quite yet. He made a valiant showing in the preseason last year. and did get some 3rd down pass rush snaps last year. Jury still isnt out on him. The rest yea.

We made a blind faith move letting Robert Griffith walk so that Sean Jones (who had looked AWFUL in his first year on the field) could start. Now we remove Brian Russell to make a blind faith move in letting Pool start. I dunno about you guys. But with the moves we've made, I trust this one. Give it a chance.

Verse,

I read enough of your posts to know that you were throwing out a General Reply even though it was clicked on me... IF I am wrong in my assumption, then allow me to offer offer up a brief reply...

My original post was to Lampdogg and how he would be shocked at a 1-5 start... I can see that as a possibility based on the first half of the schedule and of course going off of RAC's division record since he has been here...

Not that you may give a but I really do NOT want RAC to be fired... IF he survives the 2008 offseason, then that will mean we had a pretty decent year and as ANY fan would want for their team, I will take a winning record over my disagreements with the Head Coaching choice any day o fthe week and twice on Sunday...

You and Pitt had a pretty good discussion in a past thread about RAC and Phil and to be honest, he brought up good points about improvement and the difference between the two in that area... You are quick to point out Phil's poor choices and hitch the cart of RAC's shortcomings to him...

Maybe you are right that RAC is a good head coach but when you see teams with similar talent such as the Jets start out with a new HC and system do as well in their first year, and yet we continue to suck ass and show NO improvement in 2 seasons, you start to put things under the microscope...

Love it or leave it, this teams shortcomings are not JUST Phil's cross to bear...

JMHO

Boy its hard to compare the Jets to us.

We compare more to the Cards. Where it looks like...on paper, we should be better. Be we arent.

Dawgstyle. For instance, how many players have we cut, that arent playing football anymore...or just got cut by the Eagles (KH). I mean guys that have started here, that dont play anymore.

This list can load up, Couch, Holcomb, QMorgan, Kevin Johnson, Jamel White, and so on. The list can keep goin.

And how many have we cut that are buried in depth charts?

Question...How many Free Agents from the Cleveland Browns, since our re-inception, have been sought after, when they become free agents? Kelly Holcomb? He took a lower figure to go be a backup elsewhere. I mean...We have had, ZERO talent. Even the Jets have guys that were sought after (John Abraham), our talent has been awful. We've had no one even become a starter elsewhere. Chris Crocker is one, but we replaced him with a better player in Sean Jones.

Our talent level has rivaled more of the Lions, Cards, and Raiders.

Ahen was another name you forgot...

Do you HONESTLY think RAC got the most out of what he had and that the sole reason we suck has nothing to do with him but with personnel? I think IF you were honest with yourself, you would atleast agree that while the talent level improved from RAC season 1 to RAC season 2 yet the coaching remained the same...

In the end, you me and Verse all want the same thing... (improvement)

We just differ in that I do not think RAC is the guy that will get us there... SURE hope I am wrong!

Just clicking: All we have to do is beat the dogcrap out of the squeelers in the home opener and every thing else will fall into place.

Dawgstyle...I hear ya...I'm not JUST hanging it on personnel. I definitely think Romeo could have done a better job.

The most unnerving part of his coaching has been the lack of 2nd half adjustments and vanilla gameplans.

I wonder though if that is because he didnt trust his players to make changes, because they couldnt handle it, or why? If I dont see a deeper gameplan, or halftime adjustments, I think it could be curtains for RAC. I just hope that isnt the case.

I hope he's learned about coaching as much as he shouldve in these couple years.