DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Kentucky public schools can now offer Bible literacy courses

You do realize that this is a "Bible Literacy" course, correct?

Catholics have a Bible, The Church of Latter Day Saints have a bible, the Jews only believe in the Old Testament and Muslims follow the Koran.

I'm not sure how they can give equal religious freedom to all faiths that way.

Once again, I'm Christian and have no problem with the class on a personal level. I just don't believe that when this goes to court, and it will, that it will hold up because you can't give an equal opportunity to all religions by giving a "Bible Literacy" course.

And when it comes to 40's statement? There are cities in Kentucky that are predominately black and have Muslim communities among them. Louisville Kentucky as one example.

Here's exactly what he said..."BUT if there are zero Muslims or Buddhists, does it matter if they get a class?"

See, it would be a statewide law. The entire state would have to make allowances for such classes.

He just doesn't do any homework and makes some pretty audacious claims at times.

If I may answer this...

I am all for a school offering to teach Islam if their are participants that want that to be taught. Sharia Law however (and stated by many Muslims) is not part of Islam, and some say it is - I guess it would be the equivalent of different but like minded religions here (that is a guess on my part).

However, Sharia law calls for the active and current violence against people - so no, I don't think people would be happy, nor should they if that was the case.

But that's where the rub is. And I do agree with you about sharia law.

Do schools have the time, money and resources to give elective classes on all religions and their respective books? And even at that, do all Christians have the same belief system to the point they feel a teacher in a school will teach the students what the parents actually believe?

I actually taught my daughter about the Bible, prayer and our belief system at home and most certainly preferred it that way.

But isn't that part of religious freedom and the 1st amendment?

We have situations here in America where hate speech is protected. And since it's a form of religion, well....

To an extent, possibly. But, sharia law pretty much goes against our overall laws, doesn't it?


I mean, let's say "christianity" felt robbing banks was ok. Would it be legal then, under freedom of religion and the 1st amendment, in your opinion?

Of course not.

Religious freedom, and freedom of religion, still need to follow the laws of the land.

Hate speech is tolerated and protected.....actions against the laws of the country are not.

(I think I have all that right)

Are there things in the Bible that goes against the law?

I'm sure there is.

I agree completely with your point by the way. However, and just as an example, there's beliefs in the klan that is against the law, yet their speech is protected.

And if it's a religion, then they can simply tweet their "American version" of sharia law. So same principles, just the equivalent of the King James Version.

I couldn't answer that about the bible, im not a bible thumper

But if I am correct (again I don't really no) the bible is more of scenarios and metaphors, and that god will do bad things to those that break his will, as opposed to Sharia calling for individuals to bring violence.

So comparing the bible saying "god will burn the gays" or whatever it says, is not the same as "you need to kill the gays" as Sharia says....at least like I said, that's how I understand it.

Pretty much most of it.

The problem is, this is something that no one should even ben arguing about. the schools offer a "bible literacy" course, does it effect anyone that doesn't take the course? Nope. Should they offer a course to other religions? Yep.

How about, if someone ASK for the course, you offer it. If no one ask for the course, you don't offer it. Simple, plain, easy.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any.......but, I'm not an experty.


Agreed. Beliefs are legal, acting on them is not. (if those belief's are illegal that is) Free speech is free speech. Free speech does not infer nor entail illegal actions.

Pretty sure you can tweet pretty much anything you want......that's free speech.

ACTING on illegal things is.........illegal.

Let's look at St. Louis now. People are absolutely free to march in protest. However, if they start blocking streets, or looting, that becomes illegal.

The klan thing in charlotsville. They were free to protest. The anti protest protesters were free to do that. DRiving a car down a crowded street and killing someone was not considered free speech. I believe it was considered man slaughter, as it should be.


I guess what I'm saying is you can believe anything you want. That harms no one. If your beliefs are against the law and you act on them and harm someone, it's a crime.

I'd like to hear what those are. Well, it would probably be a long list, as you said "pretty much most of it" is against the law.

Go on........

So then that goes back to the original question.

Would you be upset if one of the classes offered, as well as a club/group made in schools, in favor of sharia law? And how do you think the majority in your ideology view it?

My understanding, is that as long as its speech its free. When that speech turns to violence or it CALLS for violence its not. So, if a KKK rally states their beliefs its not against the law. If they act on those beliefs, or call for others to act on those beliefs, that's inciting violence. its against the law.

Initial gut reaction? I wouldn't like it. If it was "forced", I'd fight it. If it was "optional", as an elective, I'd dislike it.

[quote]

Sensible side? If there was a reasonable demand for it.....well, as long as it's not forced, and it doesn't encourage breaking the law, what could I do?


However, sharia law does pretty much go against the laws of our country, doesn't it?

I can't endorse "teaching" sharia law. I can endorse teaching about religions.

And I'll be the first to say, that probably can't be a h.s. class.

(I think you may have edited your post before I got done typing this. I hope nothing is/was lost in translation.)

I'd like to hear what those are. Well, it would probably be a long list, as you said "pretty much most of it" is against the law.

Go on........



Murder, genocide, incest , child abuse ,arson , criminal damage , assault ..... Pretty common themes in that book . The Bible is one doozy of a violent story .

Good for them. Hope they don't mind when Kentucky schools also have to offer an option to teach their kids the Shariah law of the Qur'an. That should get the bible thump'n parents really something to think about when their kid brings home a Qur'an to study every evening.

That would be great they would clearly be able to see that Muhammad's bones are still in a tomb. Jesus Christ however was resurrected and defeated death. Nothing like a comparison.

Well.. the story is that Muhammad ascended to heaven from the Dome of the Rock on the creature known as Al Buraq.. you'll have to let me know where the bones are..

According to Google; Muhammad is buried in the Al-Masjid al-Nabawi ("Mosque of the Prophet") in the city of Medina in Saudi Arabia. Muhammad's grave lies within the confines of what used to be his wife Aisha's and his house.

or check out this site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burial_places_of_founders_of_world_religions

wait, did how did he beat death if Knight just told everybody that jesus was God in a man's body?

lol, man these stories!! always a new version, keeps us on our toes!!

Swish, you can deny him all you want but he died for your sins and was resurrected for you too!

he didn't die for my sins. unlike you christians i don't need another man battling my problems for me. i can handle them myself.

This one is beyond you. Don't feel bad, it's beyond everyone. You don't understand what you're talking about.

That is fine. He is all about free will. Unlike other religions that would hate and kill someone for denying their god. Jesus, wants a relationship with you. I pray that someday you change your mind about him.

sure i understand.

what i don't understand is why the stories keep changing up. i don't understand if the bible and christianity was so cut and dry, why are there so many different denominations? so many different interpretations. you'd think an all powerful God wouldn't make such a silly mistake like that. guess his wife wears the pants.

to Day: funny because before there were secular governments, churches were out there collecting taxes and murdering people who didn't convert to christianity. sounds a whole lot like islam, the difference being that middle eastern nations have sharia law as their governmental system, and thankfully our founding fathers made sure to keep you crazies out of the government as realistically as possible.

the inquisition ring a bell? murder she wrote, homeboy. if it wasn't for a secular government, you christians would still be burning witches in public square.

i think all the religions are trash. it's books and stories made up by man, written by man, in order to control the minds of other men.

i'm good bruh.

Swish, I get what you wrote about religions. Just like politics there are bad people in all forms of politics there are also bad people in all religions. I think the common denominator is power. People use politics and religion to gain power.

Read the Bible sometime while there are murders committed in the stories of the Bible both the old and new testaments condemn murder. Jesus, could have called down angels and killed the Romans but he choose to be a living sacrifice for others. He even said forgive those that crucified him. He said they know not what they do. Does that sound like a murder?

True Christianity is a personal relationship and has nothing to do with religion. Religion corrupts the truth more often than not.

you boy allegedly flooded every human on earth, besides some dude and his family, then they had incest sex to repopulate the planet.

yea, sounds like murder to me.

Muhammad was a pedophile, i believe.

and the jews don't even believe jesus was the son of God, which always made me laugh because christians tend to align themselves with a religion who goes against their main core principles.

i wish i could believe you about christianity being a person relationship, cause the evidence says it's used to control the masses.

to Ted: catholicism is a form of christianity. dunno why you attempted to separate.

You ain't lookin' close enough. You should read The Story of Liberty by Charles C Coffin.

If you wanna make the case that a religious institution used the Word of God to control people that's the one.

Throughout history the catholic church was more of a politically ambitious organization than anything.

Mass was held in Latin, as an average citizen you weren't allowed to read the Bible, you had to take the priest at his word.

At certain levels of the priesthood they could decide whether you got saved or not, therefore they could manipulate you into doing what they wanted you to do, and when you happen to be royalty that commands armies, that tends to get messy.

All up until the protestant reformation, you should read up on that as well.

When the masses learned what the Word of God said themselves rather than having to go through a priest, that's when people started to become free.

Unlike Christians, Atheists are without sin! Sins are an offense to God, but if there is no god to offend then there is no sin.

Like Christians, Atheist are perfectly capable of doing bad things, dumb things, even harmful and egregious things; BUT we don't get to ask our invisible friend to forgive us and make it all better like mommy kissing a boo-boo, nope we have to live with it and hope to do better by taking the life lesson and moving on. This is what makes religion such a crutch for weak willed people.

As an Atheist, I often struggle with what comes after this life. Evidence and logic tell me that nothing happens, when you die the lights go out and that is it.

But science also proves that energy cannot just disappear, it must transfer to new objects or transform in some way. So even without believing in the human "soul", we must account for the loss of energy and question rather that energy somehow transforms and maintains a state of being self aware like a conscious living being.

This is why I find ghost stories interesting, reincarnation stories interesting, and near death experiences interesting. Obviously I don't believe all of these stories or even some in most cases. I do try to remain open minded to them though and even to the "Christian paradise in heaven" bit to the extent that I can and don't find it absolutely impossible for scientific reasons.

That said, a good Atheist lives a full life feeling that they get one shot to make the most of it and tries to avoid the bad things in anyway possible. Most Atheist believe death is the end, period; but happily remain open minded should that somehow not be the case. So IMHO Atheism is similar to being a "good Christian" without all the superstition, fairy tales, invisible beings, rituals, and other crazy BS.

Same applies to most other religions, just plug in the name of that religion, rinse and repeat. The exception would be lifestyle religions that focus more on building the person than praising a deity. Those religions although often odd, fall into the self improvement category and align themselves well with Atheism IMHO.

Did too

A spiritual belief in a higher power is part of a well-balanced, healthy mind.

Why?

Because it’s so freakin’ weird that we exist, that if you’re a “thinking man” it blows your mind.

Instead of contemplating: “What the f*** is going on?” It’s better to just think “God did it” and move on to something else to concentrate on.

Of course if you’re not a thinking man you don't have this problem.

And there’s the right from wrong angle too.

If you don’t believe in God, why not do whatever you want?

“Hey that guy has $50 I can take and not get caught, not face any negative consequences.”

So the only thing that stops you from being a thief is the fear of god?
What happened to you? My mom raised me to not take things that weren't mine. God or no god.

i know you are but what am i?

wait wait wait, so the only reason to do the right thing is because of God? even though we've had rules before major religions was even created?

if you need a invisible man to keep you in line, then you're the one who isn't a thinking man.

You may be right on this if you do not accept the offer.
He did die for mine though.

that's fine. i know you enjoy having others take the fall for you.

Most Definitely in this case because I could never save myself. Just like the soldier saved by a brother who jumped on the grenade, I would have no chance without that sacrifice.

at least you admit you're a beta.