DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum It should be ...Kevin Hogan, the starter...

Lol at people calling to sit Kizer after 2 games against 2 tough defenses. Yeah makes complete sense, I mean obviously 2 games is plenty to tell you everything about Kizer

It's been said and joked about for years: The most popular guy on the team is the backup Quarterback.

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And some fact's to back up your statement would be nice !

Yeah, I hear your sarcasm. Agree with it 100 per cent.

BOX SCORE
Cleveland Browns (0-2-0) Baltimore Ravens (2-0-0)
Passing CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Kizer 15/31 182 0 3 , avg yds per com. 12.1
K. Hogan 5/11 118 1 1 , avg yds per com. 23.6

imo Hogan sees the field better, reads the def better, faster decision making, gets the ball out faster, throws a very catchable ball, throws a damn good deep ball.

oh and I believe he has a better grasp of the playbook and how the plays are supposed to be run...again this is just my opinion.

as of right now I believe he should be starting if our goal is to win now. he is the better QB.

Kizer may or may not develop into a better QB than Hogan...but that day is not today.

I was hoping he would sit back when we had Osweiler. That ship has sailed, however.

Now that Kizer is 'the guy', then he have to roll with him through the good and the bad.

It's crazy how people say that we gotta "see what we have" and "roll with him", but then want to bail on him after 2 games against 2 good defenses. Compounding the issue is our vaunted run game that hasn't shown up.

That's how i see it. Hue decided he wanted to start him right away.

If we want this guy to be worth a darn, then we have to play him, through the good and bad.

When we pull him, we better not plan on him being anything more than a backup in the future because we're just gonna wreck his confidence

j/c:

I want to reiterate that I think the Browns should stick w/Kizer. Way too early to pull him. Too much harm can be done if we bench him.

However, I don't like when people trash Hogan or act like Kize has been so much better. No one knows that Hogan is just a "backup qb." He could be. Hell, he could get cut and never play again. Then again, he could be a starter. We don't know that at this point in time and it's unfair to make such broad generalizations.

From what we've seen so far, Hogan has played a bit better than Kize has. I do not see this huge gap where Kizer is vastly superior. And no one knows whether or not Kize can be a top qb, either.

I also don't agree that Hogan has a weak arm. He has an average arm that is probably stronger now because his mechanics have improved so much. Hue and Lee have done a tremendous job w/his mechanics. I can't overstate that. It's been tremendous.

I think one thing Hogan has going for him in addition to his unbelievable toughness and unquestioned leadership abilities is that he played in a pro style offense at Stanford.

I wouldn't trash this guy so quickly, if I were you.

How many times do you see a backup come in for relief and make a bunch of plays?

The players and coaches spend the entire week prepping for one guy, and then all of a sudden a different player, with a different skill set, different release, etc. comes in and throws everyone off. That's why you saw that little burst from Hogan. You also saw probably the worst throw of the game. Back breaking.

We can't freaking do this. Hue said he was keeping this kid in all year and he was going to ride it out with him, can we just let him do that. We're not going to the playoffs either way, why not let a quarterback learn and develop with this season.

Seriously....what do you expect with a rookie starting game one.... Let the kid take his lumps and learn...

I am not calling up Hue and telling him to switch QB's lol. not my job.

but I am saying that Hogan is the better QB and should have started week one.

if we start out at 0-5 when it should be 3-2, we'll see where everyone is at then...

after week five our schedule is not so friendly.

Hue said he is not going 1-15 again. so if we are 0-5 look for Hogan week 6...ish

here comes the disclaimer. this is just my personal opinion on the topic. nothing more. so let's not get our panties all in a bunch please.

I thought it might be an interesting topic...and to see if I was the only one who thinks Hogan should be starting/ better QB.

these are good points...bottom line is we have 2 quarterbacks we have no idea what they will be, to trash Hogan just because he's the backup is asinine, he was better in college than Kizer and apples to apples without the glasses on looks better at this level too. Point is we don't really know what we have in either. Hue has decided on Kizer or bust, but I wouldn't be suprised to see Hogan if Kizer continues to struggle, its not like there's a first overall pick under center. Bottom line is we don't have an NFL quality QB yet...and we need that question answered this year

I'm wondering if Hue decided Kize should be the starter or if Sashi decided Kize should be the starter? Perhaps it was a joint decision?

Osweiler's comments got me to thinking about it. Then, some of the roster moves made me wonder even more.

I don't think any of us know who made the decision to start Kize, but my instincts tells me that Sashi and Hue had a series of meetings and they were both in on it.

I'm not saying that in a sinister way, but looking at the reps each qb got, it's kinda hard to dispute that Kize was the choice from the beginning.

While I hope Kizer becomes the greatest QB who ever lived, I'll also say that about Hogan. Why? Simple, I wasnt a stud at the position for the Browns. I will say for all to hear, that whoever is the best player, put him in.

Come on, folks. Just about everyone here predicted a low win percentage and wouldn't mind as long as you saw improvement throughout the season. Now you're screaming for change without even letting them establish a baseline to see improvement from. C

How do you know?

I have already said it is way early to pull Kizer. He is who the guru picked, so we need to ride with that.

My personal feeling is that Hogan is better, and if so, in time that will play out. In the mean time, we have to give Kizer a minimum of 7-8 games to at least allow him the chance to flash great things. Lot's of really good QB's didn't have good rookie seasons, but all flashed and showed why there was hope for the future. This week against the Colts, I would expect to see some flash in his play. They aren't very good. If he stinks it up, that is one game closer to the bench.

The next 4-5 games is where Kize either firmly grips the starting job or plays his way out of it.

We will get a feel this week against a sub par team. We have similar offensive talent with Luck not in the picture. We cannot except players (any player let alone QB) to be successful without any talent at their disposal.

I think Hue has 3/4 games to show us something. If we cannot win one of the next 4 and be competitive in all 4 (Colts, Bengals, Jets, Texans) then I think Hue is done here.

Kevin's refined his throwing motion quite a bit. I think he could be a solid #2 QB in the league now. I think he could probably challenge for this job, but I think we should stick to Kizer right now. He shows some flashes of brilliance and it's his time to play. We need to know what we have.

But Ballpeen - "My personal feeling is that Hogan is better, and if so, in time that will play out. In the mean time, we have to give Kizer a minimum of 7-8 games to at least allow him the chance to flash great things."

Using this logic doesn't that mean that Hogan (whom you agree is better) is losing valuable playing time and lose of game time experience?

Hogan showed flashes of brilliance the entire time he was playing except for one (1) play

If Hue calls a timeout at 40 secs before the half, we have a chance to win the game, especially if Hogan plays the second half. Plus Duke looked like he scored and it wasn't challenged. WTH!

Well, that's why it's going to be interesting to see what he does the next 3 games!

Duke's elbow touched out at the 1. He should've challenged it, but I'd rather him never challenge anything again.

Great post...

j/c:

Do people really believe that head coaches are challenging plays on their own? Are people ignoring that there is/are a person or people in the box who watch the replay and contact the HC on his head phones?

I think for most coaches it's a mixture of gut and informed opinion.

Either way, some teams are better at it than others.

I think you are wrong about the "gut" part. The guys upstairs are talking to the coaches.

I understand that bashing Hue is the thing to do right now, but the challenges are coming from upstairs. As they should be.

I disagree w/you about the Wildcat thing.

I think Hogan had more success because he threw the ball on time. That was huge.

I also think he was more accurate than Kize.

With that said, I think that the Browns need to stick w/Kize because QB controversies suck the life out of a team and get coaches fired. I also think that once we named Kize the starter, we have to roll w/him.

In summary, I don't think Hogan is as bad as people are saying he is, but I do think that we should keep Kizer as the starter.

And i agree with you, but Hogan has 1 more yr in the offence and right now is alittle ahead of Kizer in the playbook, hell maybe alot, but you just have to let this play out

I agree we should stick with him, but don't know where the flashes of brilliance comment came from?

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/09/hue_jackson_had_to_gamble_with.html


So, with the second of the Browns' three timeouts already called, Jackson was left with a decision to make once replays showed the ball pop loose after Brown was on the ground. The question was a matter of if the play was over when it came out.

"If I throw the flag, then all of the sudden I am going to be out of timeouts entirely because if you lose the challenge, you are done," he said. "I felt we had a really good chance to win the challenge. I thought the ball came out."

The officials ruled it did not and the Browns were out of opportunities to stop the clock, save for the two-minute warning.

"I still think the tip of the ball came out and hit the ground and I did not think he had control all the way to the ground," Jackson said. "Obviously, the officials did (think Brown had control), and I lost that one. That happens. Unfortunate, but that is what happened."

I am not bashing Hue Jackson. I genuinely think many coaches just go off their gut and challenge plays sometimes. I don't think that's much of an outlandish statement.

Not trying to pick a fight, but come on, man! You could clearly see Hue listening to his headset while contemplating whether to throw the flag or not on each of the would-be challenges.

Not just Hue Jackson, most coaches.

Yes, exactly.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND.

THAT THIS ROSTER.

WAS COMPLETELY GUTTED.

JUST OVER A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.

ITS BEEN 18 GAMES.

Thank You!!!