DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum The problem with NFL celebratory flaunting.

Celebratory flaunting and other elaborately choreographed displays are just so wong in so many ways.

And yet many fans - including posters here - don’t have a problem with it.

Geez, now they even do little dances or jigs when they make routine plays (break-up a pass, sack the QB)

Little “acts” that 15 years ago would have been heavily penalized.

What’s my problem with it?

For one, it shows a complete lack of humility.

Here, humility meaning a sense of equality among people. Of respect for other people.

Still don’t get it?

Do you or did you ever compete? If you did then you know there must be a winner and a loser.

And everybody at some point loses.

Competition is human nature. I think it’s inherently good for people to compete in games. (Thus the World Olympics)

It encourages athleticism, motivation and teamwork.

To mock someone you just “defeated” is gauche.

Do you like it when you lose?

No.

Do you feel better when you’re humiliated by your opponent?

Practicing The Golden Rule goes beyond the bible.

The Golden Rule - “Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.”

It means if you don’t like it, don’t do it to others.

A very good easy-to-learn general rule for an advanced society.

When I’ve lost in the past, I’ve always felt a lot better when my winning opponent said something like “Good game, I got lucky” (even if they hadn’t)

Or if they said: “you need to work on your______”. (whateverer - advice to help me improve my game)

When someone has beaten me and acted like “You loser!”. I didn’t like it.

But there’s even more. A lot of these celebrations are designed for TV audiences.

“HEY! LOOK AT ME!”



This was absolutely, positively not tolerated only a dozen years ago.

And it especially looks bad when an inferior team like the Browns have players doing it when they have much better things to work on.

I suppose it’s related to the “cultural change” the United States is going through.



"I'll be back."

I'm no fan of the elaborate stuff. Things such as a bunch of players gathering around the ball like it's a campfire, or a dice game, or such nonsense. I have less issues with players individually celebrating, spiking the ball, jumping up like Njoku, chest bumping fellow players, etc.
I do wish there was less of all of it. Just hand the ball to the ref and know you'll be back to do it again later.

I don't know. Some of the pre-orchestrated stuff is ridiculous, but we'd like to have our players play like they care ... but then get upset when they celebrate like they care?

It's a good thing, because the money the NFL is receiving is from TV audiences.



You sure about that? It's been going on as long as I've watched football (I remember the Kardiac Kids era).




In general, in-game celebrations or showboating goes back a long, long way and most fans are okay with it. Sports are supposed to be fun and entertaining.

Also, back in the 40-50's, this was a job for the players. As in, they got paid very little and probably had mid-week or offseason jobs too. Nowadays, it's a billion dollar entertainment spectacle. The players are marketing themselves. The leagues want this, it brings in more eyes, even your outraged eyes. It's just part of the sports landscape and has been for many decades.

I love TD celebrations and am glad the NFL relaxed the rules on it.

There's two trains of thought on this and I really don't have a problem with either one.

1. Celebrations are entertaining. People enjoy the show. Many people who watch the game aren't avid fans. I don't really like this side of the debate but I understand it.

2. Act like you've been there before. You get paid to do your job well. Actually doing what you're getting paid to do is not something to celebrate, it's you actually doing your job. I don't see my lawn keeper jumping up and down in celebration on my driveway after he finishes the lawn.

I lean towards the second option.

TO's sharpie celebration was in 2002.

Joe Horn's cell phone celebration was in 2003.

Randy Moss mooned the Green Bay crowd in 2004.

The Ickey Shuffle started in 1988.

There are more, those are the notable ones.

Sports are supposed to be fun. Players celebrating is fun.

If you did see your lawn keeper celebrate after doing a good job on your lawn, which of the following would you do?

- Fire him
- Yell out, "Stop that, do your job then leave!"
- Give him a raise
- Feel good because he's a proud and happy worker and he's doing your lawn
- Would you make a point to watch the next time to see if they do it again?

To me, the whole "do your job" thing would mean a person isn't supposed to show joy for doing anything well on the clock. Are workers (football players, wait staff at a restaurant, IT professional, etc.) robots? What about a doctor saving a life in the ER? "Don't you dare be happy and high five anyone." We all should encourage more people to do their job well and find happiness in it.

It doesn't bother me at all.

As for the conversation about not liking the opposing team when they celebrate, that's even simpler to me, don't let them score if you don't want to see it (especially in baseball with bat flips and staring of the ball going over the fence. Don't bean the next guy up if you're ticked off, get better and don't give up homers then).

You seem to be confusing pride in your work with some need to say "look at me" for doing your job.

One piece of advice used to be something to the effect of "Act like you have been here before. Don't be a showboat." IMO it is mostly about me and detracts from the team.

I watch and attend a game to see the scores, not the end-zone salsa. Some is OK, I guess.
Used to love Hillis, and I get spiking a ball to cap a hard drive in a tight game. But some of it is simple-minded stuff, again in my opinion. I favor that "once upon a time" team focus.
Nobody does it alone on the gridiron.

Exactly, that's why you get your teammates involved in the celebration.

It's football, not military service. No fun league mentality from a lot of people.

My biggest issue is......well, ARE: The pre planned endzone celebrations. But, even more than that, the "self congratulatory" arm motions for.......doing your job? Catching the ball for a first down?

Making a tackle..

Uh, these are things that are expected of a player in the nfl.

It's fast becoming a "look at me" league, but not for the good things, but rather, for "Hey, Look at me! I caught the ball." etc.

You also don't jump up and down and celebrate him mowing your lawn either, so it's a bad analogy IMO. I've always felt it's an emotional game, so players should be allowed to express some emotion as well. If you jump up and down and go nuts when a player scores a touchdown, shouldn't he? You want the players to care about the team as much as you do when they're playing, right? So why can't they celebrate big plays as much as you do as well?

Fast becoming? They've been celebrating everything for decades. Michael Irvin would signal first down after almost every catch. I think he retired more than few years ago.

I don't mind the celebrations, but with 2 exceptions.

1. Celebrating anything when you've essentially lost the game. Celebrating a sack or pass breakup when you're 1 score down in the 4th is not what I mean (those guys gotta be juiced for that). I'm talking about garbage time when the game is outta reach and you get a pick/sack/1st down... heck even a TD. If it's meaningless, and not going to affect the guy, I think it reflects a selfish attitude to celebrate.

2. Excessive celebration for small plays. This one isn't as bad as #1, but I get annoyed when a guy has a really elaborate celebration for a TFL. I'm like, "Dude, it's 2nd down... you still got a lot of work to do".


Otherwise, I don't mind celebrations. They're entertaining, even the bad ones, and those guys should be pumped to make big plays.

They're both the same thing, if someone see the celebration.

- I find a logic bug in our code and celebrate by pumping my fist. That's pride in my job and it's drawing attention to myself, assuming someone sees me.

There's an internal "pride in your work" that you only think in your head and then there's one you do externally, that other people can see.

If the guy cutting your lawn spikes his ho after planting your flowers, it's the same thing. Maybe he's doing it for himself or maybe he's doing it to showoff to you, but they're both rooted in pride for his work.

Again, are people not allowed to demonstrate happiness for doing their job?

We have to disagree big time on this one bro.

The NFL is playing a kids game. We as fans want to see a kids game. Ifyou have a problem with that well then just bitch about it on a Browns board. I disagree 100 percent. But I still love you buddy

It's been going on forever, kind of fun trying to remember these. Here are some others.

Gastineau and Klecko doing the sack dances

the fun bunch

the dirty bird

Billy Simm's awesome TD celebrations

that thing the Rams did with "the greatest show on turf"

Jack Lambert hockering in qb's faces

The best one of all.......the Lambeau Leap.

What I was always taught by coaches, when playing and being a coaching intern was that if you hate that feeling of losing and having the other team talk isht, is work harder next time and dont lose

I'm all for sportsmanship, and "handing the ball back to the ref", obviously, I played hockey and there is somewhat of a code that is enforced by players (at all levels) but at the end of the day, pro football is entertainment.

If a defensive player gets a sack on a QB, I don't have a problem with it. Imagine being that guy, having to make sure you don't hit him too hard, hit him too high, hit him too low. You get a good clean shot and blow up the play, it's only expected to be pretty happy about it. There's a line, but I think some of the old school folks are a bit too strict.

The dice game thing with the steelers was lame, and in bad taste. Was it flagged? I saw quick replays, but nobody ever mentioned it as a penalty, which by rule i think it should be?

There was a short era where guys like Joe Horn and Chad Johnson were WWE level of celebrations, and while I thought it was hilarious and great (CJ's was over the top but always in good taste) and while we can look back at laugh at those antics, it's probably for the best that it is in the past.

Look, just about all of us in here would watch the game if celebrations were bannd altogether. They aren't lax about it because of us. We're in pretty much no matter what. They are allowing it because of the fringe/casual fans. It's pretty much always about them.

I just wish they'd stop with the musical acts. The super bowl is fine, although it's never really music I'm into. But every thanksgiving, they roll out this pathetic excuse for a halftime show with some lame act, and they bring the fake "fans" onto the field like it's a real concert and for me it's just cringeworthy. Can we put an end to that?

These are from the 1980s:







And who could forget Billy White Shoes Johnson, who played from 1974 to 1988?





Oh, and here is an article about the Godfather of the Endzone Dance, Elmo Wright, who began his dancin' back in the 1960s.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/13/sports...et.html?mcubz=1




You gettin' old, man!

I don't mind it for the most part... I do get upset if we're down by 30 and someone celebrates a break up or touchdown or something there... But in the heat of the game if you want to celebrate it enjoy.... Don't like someone celebrating after a TD? Don't let them score...

'meh....I don't care. It's whatever.

Also, it could be worse...Robbie Fowler pretending to snort a line after scoring a PK for Liverpool. I remember when this happened (I was living in England at the time and it was pretty controversial). This was the 90s...amazing the quality is already not very good. However, the clip zooms in when Fowler goes to take the PK and then runs off and "snorts his line". Classy. Real classy.

This thread is pretty politically correct. People who do their jobs well, have to subdue their performance so the other team feels better?

the coolest ever.

You think that's bad, some Italian player took off his jersey, put it on the ground and started humping it!

I still think Randy Moss should have actually mooned the crowd, instead of pretending. That would have been awesome. Hey, they mood the opposing team bus all the time. Turnabout is fair play. And the fine would have been worth it.

...also, Joe Buck calling it a "disgusting act" was so childish. He pretended to moon the crown. So what. Snorting a line of coke or humping your jersey might be called that.

Yeah, I thought Buck really over-reacted to that.

Well, my lawn guy doesn't get paid millions of dollars to mow my lawn either. Is every time you catch a pass or get a first down a "big play"?

Why do we to decide what is/isn't a big play? The player wants to celebrate, he celebrates. This is not that hard.

And he often looks the fool for it. Do you celebrate after every time you actually do what you're getting paid for at work? Of course not. You would have been locked up in the looney bin by now if you did.

This whole, "look at me" thing every time the basically don't screw up is a little too self absorbed for my taste.

Score a TD? Maybe so. But it's gotten to the point they act like they should have their own infomercial every time they make a play. Ridiculous.

My job is not broadcasted to millions of people for the purpose of entertainment.

Maybe they should send the players to acting classes?

JMO, but if you want to watch people dance and gyrate and self promote, you could probably do better watching something else.

You're right, the nfl is entertainment. It's called football. I don't know of any that tune in to watch skits.

JMO, of course.

Get off my lawn!!!!

As someone said, the networks aren't paying many billions to broadcast me reviewing On-Save triggers in corporate Sales software. If they were, I may be more flamboyant about it. And the people tuning in would probably like seeing that too.

If I pump my fist after finding a hard logic bug, am I a fool because I should show emotion while I'm doing my job? So, you want everyone to be robots while working.



That's what everyone has been saying in this thread, it hasn't "gotten to the point", it's already happening every other play and has been for a long, long while. Maybe you're more annoyed with it now, but sack dances, first down thrusts and look-at-me celebrations have been around since I was young (I'm 44 now). Ultimately, if you can't deal with it, I don't think the NFL is for you then.

I suppose baseball might be a better fit. Outside of HR celebrations, most plays go without much fluff. If they do celebrate, the next time up they'll catch a heater in their backside or ribs for their attempt to show another player up.

Especially if you're ........well......... [video:youtube]http://nypost.com/2017/09/19/jogger-wont-stop-pooping-on-familys-lawn/[/video]

I'm supposed to be a robot at my work. But then I do see how it might look bad if after a big arrest cops started shooting off celebration rounds in the air, or doing some Top Gun beach volleyball "Playin with the Boys" High 5'n, or even just giving each other a smack on the arse and a "Good Game".

I think the real problem with NFL celebratory flaunting is that there isn't enough sass. It needs more jazz hands and I think an acceptable 2 pt conversion alternative would be a dance off. If that happened Victor Cruz would be a crazy steal on any Fantasy team for his mad Cha Cha skillz.

Yeah, a police officer shouldn't be celebrating because their supposed to be impartial and serving the community. Good point.

Well, as long as the cop did his/her job correctly, by some standards on here, he/she should be jumping for joy.