DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer

Good post.

I agree our running game will improve dramatically once we burn teams via the pass.

Marty said this a long time ago and some of dummies on sport's talk radio blasted him for it, but he was correct when he said something like:

Play calling is overrated. It's about execution.

Right now Kizer isn't seeing the field. There was a nice article on Kenny Britt in yesterdays pages. Britt has been taking a lot of heat. The reporter examined things and it looks like Britt has been open but never got the chance to catch the ball because Kizer never saw him.

I saw that article on the net this morning. It was enlightening to say the least.

Yes! And when you don't see the entire field during the game & you have a rookie you want to do well, it's easy to point the blame elsewhere.

What's concerning to me about Britt is that his body language shows that he tends to get frustrated easily, IMO. I saw one throw to him that was horribly thrown behind him and the look on his face was like..."here we go again." That can't happen...just put your head down and grind it out. That can lead to issues in the locker room and that ain't good.

Its not that people didn't want to analyze Kizer's play,its that very little you can accomplish doing that.

Now I'm no expert in route trees blocking and other stuff, but there is a easy concept that I can grasp.

Play calling is about maximizing mismatches, playing to your strengths and minimizing your weaknesses. So when play calling is going to rely on your rookie unproven QB, then you can question it, can't you?

Regarding the routes, while I'm no expert,its very easy to see that our Wr's are constantly disrupted, nor only the are beaten and out matched physically but the routes we run are many times the routes that the opponents allow us to run.

Its easy to see our Wr's hugging the line pushed by the Safeties, making the completions very hard, especially for an average QB. On a game plan scheme, you either upgrade the WR talent and physicality or stop calling those kind of plays


You don't game plan on vacuum, you game plan according to the execution levels also.

But most important, both game calling and levels of execution are responsibilities of the HC...

I was expecting a blowout from Baltimore, so I'm kind of ok, except that it would be more productive if we kept protecting Kizer or Hogan and do not demand what they cannot deliver.

For the next games, I'm changing my position. I think we have a easy schedule and if we cannot provide Wins, its a sign that we have not progressed.

It was and still is one of my 3 major concerns with him ...

He was the same at ND and its not getting any better ...

He locks on to his primary way to long ... way to long ... then when he finally does come off of his primary ... he spends to much time on his secondary ... by then ... its hammer time ... as in him getting hammered .. *L* ..

He has not shown one bit of improvement on any of his negatives at nd ... matter of fact ... hes added one, if not two bad habits to the equation ...

Its way to soon to be making judgements on how good he will be ... hopefully we start seeing some improvement in an area or two soon ...

He will play better over the next few weeks because of the quality of the D's we'll be facing ... playing better in that sense does not mean improvement ... two seperate "issues" ..

You do realize that the way the opposing D lines up is how you arrive at where those mismatches are, correct?

Teams have been stacking the box and focusing on taking our run game away from us forever. We haven't had a QB that can beat them over the top since DA when he was on a hot streak. Until we can take away that strategy by beating them over the top and loosening up their D, we're going to see what we're seeing.

The right side of our OL couldn't create a hole that a mouse could get through right now, much less Crow. Shone Coleman isn't a RT, and so far Zeitler and Tretter aren't looking like world beaters either. But it takes time for an OL to gel. There are three players together, (RT, RG, C) that have only played two NFL games together. Trying to find a scapegoat isn't productive for anyone.

Give this OL time to gel and give this young QB time to develop. I've never seen so many Chicken Little's all gathered in one place before in my life.

The thread is about Kizer,

He has the talent - we have not seen this much physical talent at the position in a long long time. He needs time to develop, and calling for his head after a bad game against arguably the best defense in the NFL is stupid.

I didn't want Kizer to start, but the facts are, even as a rookie he is better than what is behind him. So THAT is why he is starting.

He has absolutely 0 weapons to go to. A project TE, and backup TE (who has been showing some skill in Devalve), and that's about it. Crow is overrated. Does not have vision. Duke cant run, hes a slot WR IMO. So you have 0 WR, 0 starting quality RB, and a half decent TE corps. Complaining about Kizer is stupid.

I think we need to get Kasen Williams and Higgins the most looks right now on Offense, JMO. everyone else shows 0 effort or skill.

and since people made this a hue thread, YOU CAN ONLY COACH WHAT YOU ARE GIVEN. We are severely lacking talent on offense. We are going to struggle to run when no one respects our WR and know they can cover 1on1. you will have 8-9 in the box every play.

Yes I realize that. I realize that we are a bad team, so stop blaming the QB, and using QB play has an escape goat.

Pressure has to be on D and Run offense, time for those areas to show some consistent improvement, namely the OL.

And by improvement I don't mean PFF grades, I mean creating holes for our running game.

Any chance we can get a linkadoo? I'd love to read it.

Where did I blame the QB? I simply explained that the mismatches were in the passing game which is why we're passing the ball so much.

I feel ya Tab.

People are simply expecting too much, too soon. I understand their frustration but I'm fully aware of the situation which prevents me from doing so. I'm not going to fall prey to something that's unrealistic.

X2

Ok, yeah, blah, blah, blah. I see you have a new bone.

First, there is a difference between "blaming Hue" and questioning what we see. So feel free to dial back your vitriol. Second, neither I nor anyone I was having a nice, calm discussion with was saying anything about blame, firing the coach, or hiring a new coach. Third, we were discussing the minimal amount of running, not Kizer or his turnovers or his play at all, only that he could possibly benefit from more running plays. And finally, you don't know what we know, so your opinion about that means nothing.

Oh, and there's this (to get my discussion back on point):

"Crowell, who's in his contract year, is also wondering why the Browns aren't running the ball more."

Link

I'm not sure why you selected me for your bogus rant, but I call BS.

I like Kizer. However, if we can get Sam Darnold in the draft, we have to take him. He is a natural. Kizer is a talented player, but Darnold is better. I am sure Kizer can fetch a high draft pick from another QB needy team.

I struggle to believe I'm even reading that.

Kizer has had 2 games, and already you're looking for a new q.b.?

This board never fails to amaze me lol

Yes I am because it would be a major upgrade. Not just to draft another QB. I think Darnold is an excellent prospect.

This is a business and if a better, probably much better, player comes along (especially at QB), you have to take that player. Why pass on a QB prospect (Darnold) who is the best prospect in a few years, and stay with a ?? prospect in Kizer? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Nah, you aren't making sense.

Can we at least wait until the end of the season before making these claims...?

Browns notebook: Hue Jackson delivers lecture about importance of being patient with rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer

BEREA: Browns coach Hue Jackson was asked a rather innocuous question Thursday about whether rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer will be able to release the ball quicker with more repetitions and experience.

What followed was Jackson using about 850 words in three answers to lecture media about the importance of exercising patience with Kizer, a second-round draft pick from Notre Dame.

“Every young quarterback goes through what he is going through,” Jackson said.

Kizer, 21, was universally praised for an impressive NFL debut Sept. 10 in a season-opening, 21-18 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Then his growing pains were outlined after he committed four turnovers — three interceptions and a lost fumble — this past Sunday in a 24-10 loss to the Baltimore Ravens.

The latter apparently put Jackson on the defensive.

“We want this guy to be our franchise quarterback,” Jackson said. “I stand behind this guy wholeheartedly. He is going to get better. This guy has played two games in the National Football League and we are already trying to compare what he does, or we act like he should be playing like Brett Favre or something. That is not going to happen. He is going to continue to get better each and every week.

“He is growing every day. He grew even through the negative last week. It’s not fun, but he is learning. He is learning that you guys are going to crucify him when things aren’t going well, and he understands you guys are going to praise him when things do go well.

“That is part of this process for him, and he has to go through it. Do I like going through it? No. But I also like having a quarterback that we all feel comfortable with that potentially could be the guy for years to come in this organization.

“We are going to ride with him through the good and the bad. Doesn’t mean I like it, but I’m going to ride with him through it because I think he has what it takes. We are going to keep getting him better. We are going to keep surrounding him with better players, guys who understand exactly what we are trying to accomplish.”

Jackson has been on a roller-coaster ride with a rookie quarterback before. In 2008, he was the quarterbacks coach of the Ravens when Joe Flacco threw three interceptions and fumbled twice in his fifth start. Flacco went on to win two playoff games the same season.

“Sometimes when you have a good game, we start to build him up a little bit,” Jackson said. “Then, all of a sudden, it’s a high, and here comes a low. [Kizer] didn’t play as well [Sunday]. All of a sudden, ‘Uh, oh. Is he this? Is he that?’ This guy is still the same guy.

“Like many rookies, I can name many guys in this league who have thrown three interceptions in a game, four interceptions in a game and came back the next week and played their tails off. That is going to happen. I don’t like it. Nobody does. But hopefully he will keep growing from it.

“He is leading an organization that hasn’t been what it needs to be. He’s surrounded by a ton of guys who, we haven’t won a ton of games, and he’s trying to uplift everything. There is a lot of pressure.

“He is handling it extremely well. He doesn’t run from the mistakes. He doesn’t run from the things he needs to do better. None of us do.”

Browns Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas agreed ups and downs with Kizer are inevitable.

“DeShone’s as prepared as any rookie I’ve ever been around, but there’s still a huge gap with what they know and understand versus a quarterback that’s been in the league eight or nine or 10 years, which is kind of where all the really good Pro Bowl quarterbacks start to hit their stride is sort of around year seven,” Thomas said. “The difference between one training camp and a couple preseason games and like seven years of experience is vast. That’s something that just can’t be made up no matter what you do.”

Not Myles away

As Browns rookie defensive end Myles Garrett walked toward the side of the field where he spent the early portion of Thursday’s practice, he briefly broke into a run.

Some coaches were throwing a ball around, and Garrett showed a little pep in his step as he playfully tried to break up one of the passes to defensive line coach Clyde Simmons.

It’s a sign Garrett’s recovery from the right high-ankle sprain he suffered Sept. 6 in practice is going well.

Jackson has yet to formally rule out Garrett for Sunday’s game at the Indianapolis Colts (0-2), but he’s expected to do so Friday. The No. 1 overall pick in this year’s draft hasn’t practiced since suffering the injury. He spent the half-hour block of Thursday’s practice open to media working out beside the field on a pull-down machine. Jackson revealed running is now part of Garrett’s regimen, too.

“We are getting closer,” Jackson said of Garrett’s return. “We will see where we are as we get toward the end of the week. But our medical team has done a really good job of working through it.

“He has done everything he can do and then some trying to make sure that he can hurry up and get back because he wants to be out there with his teammates. At the same time, we are going to be smart about it and make sure that everything is good to go, so that when he is ready to go, that he is really ready to go.”

Perhaps Garrett will try to practice next week to see if he can be ready in time to face the Cincinnati Bengals Oct. 1 at FirstEnergy Stadium.

That would be a quick return, though, because high-ankle sprains typically require four to six weeks of recovery, and Garrett stressed Sept. 11 he won’t rush back.

Extra points

• Linebacker Jamie Collins (concussion) didn’t practice, a sign he’ll likely be ruled out against the Colts. Jackson said there’s a chance Collins could still play if he’s medically cleared Friday. “[But] if he can’t practice, it would be very hard for him to play,” Jackson said. James Burgess is slated to start in place of Collins at strongside linebacker.

• Wide receiver Sammie Coates (hamstring) hasn’t practiced this week. Will the Browns promote receiver Jordan Leslie from the practice squad in time for Sunday’s game? “We will see [Friday] or Saturday if we are going to make a move that way to help keep strengthening and improving that position, and we are trying to,” Jackson said.

• Jackson said Kizer missing roughly a quarter against the Ravens with a migraine hasn’t made the coach rethink dressing only two quarterbacks on game day.

• Thomas sported a T-shirt featuring an illustration of a mushroom and the letters C.O.O.L. — which stands for “Coaches of the Offensive Line,” an annual clinic run by Browns O-line coach Bob Wylie. Why the mushroom? “As offensive linemen, we consider ourselves mushrooms because we get thrown in the corner of a dark room and people pile poop on us and then expect us to grow,” Thomas said.

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/browns...k-deshone-kizer

If when we pick next year and there's a blue chip QB prospect staring us in the face I would take him if and only if there is mutual feeling among our coaching staff and FO people that DK is not the answer. He's a smart kid with all the physical tools who hopefully stays healthy so an assessment can be made. I like DK and am pulling hard for him. If he isn't the answer and we draft someone else next year I'm sure some other team will give us something for him.

But this does spotlight a question. How good does Kizer have to be for us to say, No we don't want to another QB, no matter who is available? How bad does he have to be for us to say we definitely need to draft a new Qb? What do we do if he plays something in between?

Regardless of what those parameters turn out to be (and I don't know that we can put strict numbers on them), it is way to early to make a decision. But it is certainly something many of us and I am sure the FO are looking at very closely.

That's why we have coaches and FO people. they have to make the determination if he is good enough. Like I said in a previous post he has all the tools and seems like a good kid who is willing to work. Because of these factors, if he has a decent season and shows promise I think they will stay with him. JMO

DeShone Kizer under 'a lot of pressure' to 'uplift' a massively rebuilding team, Hue Jackson says

BEREA, Ohio -- DeShone Kizer has come under criticism for his four-turnover loss to the Ravens, but coach Hue Jackson on Thursday tried to paint a picture of what his young rookie quarterback is facing.

"He's playing with a bunch of men," said Jackson. "He's 21 years old. He's leading an organization that hasn't been what it needs to be. He's surrounded by a ton of guys who, we haven't won a ton of games, and he's trying to uplift everything. There's a lot of pressure. Let's just be honest -- it is."

Kizer, the league's youngest quarterback, opened the season at home against the Pittsburgh Steelers -- among favorites to reach the Super Bowl -- and on the road against the Ravens' strong defense. Oh, and there was a head-pounding migraine.



The kid's got a lot on his plate

"He's trying to learn this offense, learn the language, adjust to some of the better defenses in the National Football League in the last two weeks, and then score points and throw the ball to guys that he hasn't thrown the ball to every day. That's hard. ... That's not an excuse. That's a fact.''

Jackson reminds Kizer, who started two seasons at Notre Dame, that this is the life of an NFL quarterback.

"It's what you signed up for. You have to get it done. That's the challenge. ... I think he's handling it extremely well. He doesn't run from the mistakes, he doesn't run from the things he needs to do better."

Expectations too high?

Jackson said fans and media expect Kizer to be the savior of a franchise that's gone 4-33 since beating the Falcons Nov. 23, 2014. The NFL's youngest team has seven new offensive starters.

"Every young quarterback goes through what he's going through,'' said Jackson. "This guy has played two games in the National Football League and we're already trying to compare what he does, or we act like he should be playing like Brett Favre or something.

"That's not going to happen. He's going to continue to get better each and every week. There are going to be dips sometimes, there's going to be a big high sometimes. I need to get him to play consistently over a period of time so our football team and our offense can play consistently.

"He's growing every day. He grew even through the negative last week. It's not fun, but he's learning. He's learning that you guys are going to crucify him when things aren't going well and he understands you guys are going to praise him when things do go well.''

Crucify him?

"No, not crucified. That's probably strong. I'm sorry,'' he said. "Sometimes when you have a good game, we start to build him up a little bit. Then, all of a sudden, it's a high and here comes a low. He didn't play as well. All of a sudden, 'Uh oh. Is he this? Is he that?' This guy is still the same guy.

"Like many rookies, I can name many guys in this league who have thrown three interceptions in a game, four interceptions in a game and came back the next week and played their tails off. That's going to happen. I don't like it. Nobody does. But hopefully he will keep growing from it and keep getting better."

Jackson's been through this before

When Jackson coached Joe Flacco as a rookie in 2008, he threw three picks in a 31-3 loss to the Colts, earning 57.0 rating. The following week, he earned a 120.2 mark in a 27-13 victory over the Dolphins. Jackson pointed to that blowout loss as a turning point for Flacco, and hopes Kizer has a similar experience, beginning Sunday in Indianapolis against the 0-2 Colts.

"I ... like having a quarterback that we all feel comfortable with that potentially could be the guy for years to come in this organization," he said. "We have to allow him to do that.

"I'm going to ride with him through it because I think he has what it takes. We're going to keep getting him better. We're going to keep surrounding him with better players, guys who understand exactly what we're trying to accomplish and do.''

Jackson is already encouraged by the progress of the offensive line.

"Hopefully, there are other facets of our offense that continue to get better too around him, which will make him better.''

Kizer needs a better supporting cast

It hasn't helped Kizer that he's gotten very little production out of his receivers. Corey Coleman is out with his broken hand and veteran Kenny Britt hasn't been a factor. But Jackson has challenged Britt, and other young receivers such as Rashard Higgins and Ricardo Louis are eager to prove their worth.

In the meantime, Kizer will continue to have his growing pains.

"DeShone's as prepared as any rookie I've ever been around, but there's still a huge gap with what they know and understand versus a quarterback that's been in the league eight or nine or 10 years," said left tackle Joe Thomas. "All the really good Pro Bowl quarterbacks start to hit their stride ... around year seven.

"The difference between one training camp and a couple preseason games and like seven years of experience is vast. That's something that just can't be made up no matter what you do."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/09/deshone_kizer_under_a_lot_of_p.html

he said this?

"Jackson said fans and media expect Kizer to be the savior of a franchise that's gone 4-33 since beating the Falcons Nov. 23, 2014. The NFL's youngest team has seven new offensive starters."

lmao.. better than half those loss are under his coaching!!!!

Would you like a tissue for your issue?

I feel for Kize and Hue. Our offensive talent is putrid. They are going to get criticized for a team that doesn't have enough talent to compete on offense.

I agree with the last several posts. By the way, how is Jared Goff looking so far this year vs last year with some talent infusion at the WR position, and some time under his belt?

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/911172227764244480

Watching Goff last night gave me a lot of hope for Kizer going forward. Because Goff was terrible last year.

As I believe Kizer has more potential than Goff did. But also further to go in terms of "consistency"

Why isn't Kizer a part of that "putrid" talent? Why the separation of him from everyone else? Last week, he was the worst offensive player on the damn field.

"Putrid"? I prefer to use the word "inexperienced"...

Agreed. At least for now...

Ooo... you got me there. Exactly as I thought, though. Once again you were ranting through your bunghole. Just one more of your thoughtful "football" posts.

Because we are 2 games into a season and you are talking about draft next year - you have already wrote off kizer. You have no idea how this is going to pan out.